Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:56 PM) I said this right off the bat. There is a clear change in direction of the ball, it bounces up. Now it is possible that it bounces in the lower part of the mitt and goes to the upper part, but it shows that there is no certainty about the call. It was a judgement call, and even with the high tech equipment there is no absolute answer. I believe the reason we got the call is that the White Sox showed hussle on the play, where as the Angels were just taking the strike out for granted. SB Plus if you look you see the ball bounce up and if it didn't hit the ground, it wouldn't have went up higher into the mitt. I think its the right call.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:52 PM) Jas- It's different because you dictate how players react on a call like that. That's one of the immediate calls you have to make so the catcher knows if he needs to throw or not. Let's say there is a runner on 3rd or something...if he throws for s***s when the ump knows he's out but is slow on the call and throws it down the line and a run scores...that's on the ump. If the home plate umpire rules out, he's out. He could ask for help before calling him out, or signal to an umpire he needs help (or more so a base umpire will show a closed fist for yes, it was a catch or open hand for no, it hit dirt. Then the ump can make a call. But lets say a runners on 2nd base and the ball is ruled a trap...he has to stay half way and than run back to 2nd instead of head to 3rd because its originally called out. Doesn't that in fact dictate what a player does, yet it can still be changed. I've seen umps have all kinds of different strike out calls. I also think a lot of umps make that similar call (which is what he claims) where you do the strike 3 call with an out sign. That said, I long said if I were Sciosc, I'd be mad at the umps signaling because I still think that ball hit the ground. I have yet to see any conclusive evidence to tell me it didn't. I also never heard any footage of the ump saying it was caught clean or saying it wasn't caught clean. Sure the ump could have done a better job about being loud, but at the same time, its the catchers job to make the tag and I think the one case you can make from the Sox side is that Paul threw the ball back to the mound before the ump even made his next signal (because AJ had turned around) and than ran back.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:35 PM) Exactly. Although his rebut right now on ESPN is that he makes the out fist when a player strikes out swinging at all times. And the replays will show that, imo. You can make the calls he made. His explanation makes sense. The debatable fact is whether or not the ball hit the ground, imo.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:42 PM) I'm not an expert on protests, but i'm pretty sure nothing can happen as far as an official protest goes. It's similar to a safe/out call, etc. They can't appeal whether the ball hit the ground, they could only appeal something based off Eddings mechanics behind the plate. And i don't even know if that is possible. Ya, because there is no official way to call outs (I don't think) and he can say my way is to signal once for no contact, 2nd time that it was a strike. Its basically his word and you can't change anything. And the only thing you can protest is that, you can't protest whether it was in the dirt or not. Not 100% on that, but 99.9% on it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:40 PM) I know this is probably is a very amateurish question, but there's no way that the Angels protested this, is there? No. I'm 99% sure, but I think the only time you can protest a game is if you do it during the game. You can't do it after the fact, you have to make it known and the remainder of the game is played under protest.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:39 PM) From what it sounds like is that the arm meant no contact and the call meant strike, and he does use that call all game so it's interesting. I still dont know if he caught it. Whoever that head ump guy dude is he seems to think that it hit the ground. I don't think there is any set out rule either because you can always change the ruling on a play. How is it any different than a guy being called out and than the umps discuss it and someone else has a better angle and says the ball was trapped. Different situation, yes, but I dont' think there is any set this is your out call. Afterall a lot of umps call different things different. I still say that hit the dirt so whether the ump motioned wrong or not, Paul should have made the tag (if its close you usually do so).

QUOTE(Balance @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:31 PM) While I agree with you 100%, that situation didn't result in a run for the Angels. That would weaken our "they got some breaks with calls, too" argument on that particular instance. Glad we won, just pointing that out. It was an inning ending double play and the game winning run scored on the play. Had that slide not been made, the inning would have been over and one less run would have scored.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:17 PM) If you are correct, tune in to the Baseball Tonight crew. You will get a good laugh at how bad they're butchering this rule right now. I don't think its correct. But I could be wrong. I always thought you call the out and than from there on you make the 2nd call out. Who knows though. I still think it hit the dirt (well i'm fairly confident in that).

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:10 PM) Wow, I'm just STUNNED. I think he was out, whether the ball hit the dirt or not, the ump called him OUT. End of story. He blew the call. No, the ump will make that call and than go back. It looked like he called it twice, but I think it hit the dirt. Mainly because I thought that pitch was impossible to catch without hitting the dirt and I saw a replay where the dirt kicks up. That and the slow motion (still) photo looks like the ball is sitting right in the dirt. You can't tell for sure though.

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 07:24 PM) this is what 99% of all sox fans are thinking. who f***ing gives a s***terdpoopoo about how the heck we did it. it is over and when you go to the window in vegas if you bet on the WHITESOX YOU FREAKING GET PAID! no questions asked. cant you imagine the teller in vegas before he gives you the loot? DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE BALL HIT THE DIRT. STFU and payme homebucket! You watching the local broadcast. They just had a bunch of Angel fans saying the White Sox suck and that they don't deserve a win and that they aren't capable of winning anything if they have to win this way. I hate how they always interview moronic fans. Why can't they interview someone intelligent. I know if I were an Angel fan I'd be ticked, but at the same time, you could of made the tag, you could of stepped up and got Crede, you could of scored earlier in the game, you could have not made the error earlier in the game that led to the Sox first run. There are a lot of things you could of done. Sure you should be ticked. I think that would be my feeling. It was a call that could of went either way and I'm glad it went in our favor.

Put it this way...if this is the NFL and they review it. Whichever call was the original call would of been the one that stood. There was not enough evidence on either side to overturn it. I'll say this though, the announcer out here on the local fox broadcast (local sports guy) said he thought the ball bounced in the dirt. They had the ball stopped and I swear it was half mitt, half dirt.

What a ball game. I don't know if that was an out or not (regarding AJ) but I thought the side angle showed dirt get kicked up. The Angle fox kept showing was too hard to see that from. The Fox TV crew was obviously decided on it being an out, but the radio crew was quite different thinking it got some dirt. I can't say for sure, but one angle (the side angle) made it look like it may have hit the dirt. Regardless, Buehrle pitched awesome, Crede came through huge and AJ was heads up going down to 1st.

QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:33 PM) Jas.....You and I both talked about how the offense would excel once it made the playoffs cause the pressure of the collapse talk would be done with. Do you think the offense is pressing now because the pressure of being the team most people favored has started up again? I really think you'll see the offense get back into a funk. I definately think the 3 days off had a really negative effect on the hitters. We were right in the 1st round, but I think we'll see them start to feel more comfortable as the series goes on. The key for them will be to get enough timely hits early in the series and for the Sox pitching to pick them up. I think they'll be able to do it.

Fudge

QUOTE(JimH @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:31 PM) DEAD ON RIGHT. Two different zones thus far, and he is letting Molina get away with murder, with his "pull the glove into the strike zone" bulls***. f***ing ridiculous. Ya, I haven't seen mark getting that big of a zone, especially on the high strike.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:30 PM) Wow, Washburn has strep throat and is coming off of a 102 degree fever and he's still mowing us down. Why do people always talk about what he's overcoming. Not knocking you, but he is making good pitches. Hopefully the Sox can start hitting some of his good pitches and go with them.

Guys...Sox are scoring 3 this inning.

Great job by Crede there. That was a much more difficult play than it look. There was a ton of english on that ball and he made the play. Nice job Mark...now lets take it to Jarrod here.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:16 PM) Why with 1 out? With 1 out you can knock in Rowand with a sac fly. Beause 95% of the time he's safe on that play. You don't hit a sac fly or knock in the run 95% of the time. Thats why. Listen, he was thrown out...s*** happens. It was a horrid call with 0 outs, because 90-95% of the time with a runner on 3rd and no one out, your gonna get your run, imo.

Dye also has the Sox lone RBI.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:12 PM) Cora has to realize that Rowand is gassed. He just ran full-speed and slid into 3rd base. There's absolutely no reason to risk an almost sure run. If we lose this game by 1 run it will be the stupidest call all season. With 1 out you send him...with 2 outs you send him...no one out and you don't. Thats the only reason it was a bad call. Not because he was gassed, not because he had slid...its because there was no on out. 95% of the time he's gonna be safe on that play...but Quinlan happened to field it right, get up quickly, make a strong throw, and Molina was able to string it together with an insanely quick tag.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:12 PM) Yeah, It's not like Pods is 1-for-his-last 12 or something like that trying to steal second. Plus the Angels are one of the best teams at throwing guys out and no one has stolen a base sucessfully off Washburn all season. I also think Pods is lacking confidence and that he's 2nd guessing himself on the paths and because of that is waiting just a little longer and its killing his jump and leading to all those caught steals.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:10 PM) Correct. Wrong...but thats based on how I was always taught to play the game and I'm a firm believer in playing agressive. When a team knows your always going 110% they feel it and rush plays and that leads to mistakes. When you know you have to make the perfect throw, even for a major leaguer, its really damn hard to make it.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:09 PM) he wont go anywhere. i think today they will be alittle more consevative. They can't 2nd guess themselves. This club got here playing agressive and its gotta continue with that style. Don't change your style just cause it didn't work once one game. Its worked well over the course of the entire season.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Oct 12, 2005 -> 05:08 PM) What is the difference if there was one out or none? If he was on third with one out we have multiple ways of scoring while making an out. Now if that play happened with two outs i would completely understand. Because I actually think it was a good call sending him. You just don't do it with nobody out. You never make the 1st out at 3rd or at home. That same rule doesn't apply with 1 out. Plus like I said, it took all that for Quinlan to get him and he just barely got him. Quinlan couldn't of possibly fielded it any better and Jose couldn't have had a quicker tag. Anything less than absolutely perfect and a run is scored, therefor, I'd send him 100% of the time in that situation with 1 or 2 outs.