Chisoxfn

Mike, this is well said and helps me put things in perspective as well. I may not agree with all your points, but I have nothing but respect for your stance and passion behind this. Shows me 100% your true character (which is without a doubt stellar - not that such was ever in question!).

This x 1000.

Jerry is responsible for what happens to the franchise - but TLR doing what he does is his choice. JR has to own up to the negative press that he is getting and he's fully responsible for that. But he doesn't have to own up for TLR making a massive mistake. Someone can say - he should have known...fine, fair enough. But don't say see - if Jerry didn't hire him that would have never have happened. Quit making an excuse and put the responsibility where it lies - with TLR. What if being a Mgr for a White Sox was actually better. What if JR stipulated to Tony that he had to attend a weekly AA meeting and could never be seen around the club with alcohol. Does that mean Jerry made the world a better place because now Tony is with an organization which will put him in a better chance not to repeat those past mistakes? I'm making this scenario up and I have no idea what TLR thinks of what happens nor do I know what JR thinks. None of us do - but everyone has an opinion and they all are JR doesn't care, he's condoning it, etc. None of us know. JR has always been known as a decent human being - I know that much. We can argue whether he is the best owner of our franchise, but I don't recall any stories about him being anything other than a decent human being. Yet here I see so many people saying the contrary - basically allowing one situation overcome the 100's of positive situations that came up. I still can't believe I'm having to be on the other side of the house defending some of these absolutely crazy extreme takes that are out there - and by the way - I'm sure you think the same thing of my takes here - that is the beauty of this. We each got our opinion and are entitled to it. Thank god for that. And I'm still missing out on the fact that we never got that game in Anaheim cause of this - but when this is done - I've committed to my family we are making it back out to Chicago - so that beer & game is coming either way (it just might be in your neck of the woods vs. mine).

That is up to TLR and has absolutely nothing to do with him being a Mgr of a White Sox. PERIOD. TLR collecting checks from White Sox can be something as a Sox fan you don't like, but that isn't the driving force behind TLR choosing to get behind a wheel impaired or not. That choice is TLR and TLR's alone. Now if White Sox enable him and are pushing drinks his way and not supporting him to be in programs or whatever else, totally different story. Reality is - we can disagree with Sox choosing to hire TLR despite the recent DUI, but most of you already concluded TLR was a racist who wasn't going to change the game. I don't know how or why or where it came to those ways that so many people jumped to such extreme conclusions out of the gate - but they did. They took pocketed quotes to assume x, y or z and kept following the narrative that aligned to their opinion (not unusual - confirmation bias at its finest) and ignored lots of other data points...because they made up there mind. None of us actually know what TLR and JR said when this came out and how TLR said it. Did he go, Jerry I fell off the wagon a second time or third time or whatever it was back in February, since than I've been in a program and am 100% clean. JR could have said - that was the wrong decision and you can not make those choices but I appreciate the fact that you've been transparent and are in a program and point blank, there will be zero tolerance for any F-up's. No other chance. We are committing to helping you through the program and will ensure we partner to do that. The point is - none of us know. The Sox blew it and everything else - but everyone out here getting all pissy is spending a lot of time looking for confirmation bias. If it was your sister or brother or best friend who got their 2nd DUI. Would you be calling their employer and saying they should be fired from their job - or would you be there trying to help them get the problem fixed so they never had to deal with it again.

You do realize she got her first job with the White Sox and did a lot of great things. I think her move to the Dodgers coincided with Dan Evans moving to Dodgers (and she eventually went with).

No disagreement out of me. It is why I'm really excited to turn the page on 2020 and move into 2021. I am still extremely hopeful and optimistic that despite the shit start, we can make 2020 an incredible decade as a nation and as a world!

Alright Jose - now to add a World Series MVP to your trophy case this upcoming year!

I think you are right - I think we might see a really long off-season where everyone looks to buy more time.

Best one I've seen yet.

Sorry - I reread that and I realize my post may have been construed as saying police reform is not needed. I meant to say it absolutely is needed - so if white was saying that everyone supports defund the policy - if by defund the policy he means that is literally the same as police reform - than yeah, that is awful branding. I may be naive, but I always thought defund the police was the more extreme term that was thrown by a much smaller minority of people who want I guess far more radical police reform. I think the reality is most of this nation supports police reform, including politicians on both side of the aisle - to different levels.

So I truly wonder how many actual people buy into what you are saying and are buying the Trump story. I'd say in general, between my family and friends, I have a number of acquaintances on each side of the aisle. I personally was a longtime republican who is now a registered independent. A never trumper who has actually probably voted for republicans in a minority of the cases over past 2 elections (prior to that - I'd say I probably voted 75% red and 25% blue). But I do know pretty closely about 10 people who voted for Trump. I'd caveat of those 10, 7 or 8 never really liked Trump, but when he got elected, they did seem to think he did a decent job. They never liked much anything he said, but underneath it, they were fans of tax reform (felt it was good for business), they were fans of how he was being aggressive on the trade front (Felt it was about time someone stood for America on International Trade) and a few other things, but those were probably their main views and they were fine with it. Yeah he said stuff that they didn't like and he handled himself in various ways, but underneath that, they were okay with him because he did the things I mentioned above (and note - the intent of this is to try to give some people the views on the other side that are beyond what MSNBC will tell you). Now of those 10 people - 9 of them think Biden won fair and square and the election is over. Period. Not even a debate. They have all acknowledge Trump has the right to go through procedural revotes and if there is actual voter fraud - fine, go handle it, but none of them think there is and that is that. There is one outlier - but his is less about the voter election and more on the fact that the media is entirely rigged and if the sides / roles were reversed and one of the Trump kids did what Hunter did - well he'd be in the gulag type of a thing. Anyway - the long ramblings are to kind of point out - yeah, I get it, there are people who are absurd and think the election is rigged, but I don't think anywhere near half of the country (i.e., those who voted for Trump) all think the election was rigged. That is the voice of a minority subset which is being magnified, both good and bad by various news outlets. Its kind of interesting - I really wonder what would happen if the media literally didn't cover any of the fake stuff Trump said. The problem is - everyone is creating a platform for these idiots (and I get it - because as I've said for 20 years - Trump is a joke and no one should listen to one word he says - total blowhard ahole). I say let the idiots be the idiots - don't watch, leave them alone, and the act will dissapear. Instead - we'll see protests and others will join in or fight it and the situation will compound and a bigger shit storm will happen. What oh what would poor Trump do if he never got any attention?

When you say defund the police - I presume you mean police reform? If so, horrible branding is right. If you mean defund the police in the more literal sense, than no I don't believe that defunding the police is a popular policy at all.

That is pretty startling.

This are they Hahn picks or TLR picks, well the only thing I can say is, anyone hired I have to imagine TLR is on board and I'm presuming the front office guys are on board as well, but I can't imagine TLR getting stuck with coaches he doesn't want. He's a progressive guy when it comes to baseball and I don't see this as some anti TLR hire or some spite hire. That is crazy talk - not to mention - why as an up and coming pitching coach would you take this offer and even be in that type of situation. Makes no sense - which tells me everything I need to know about some of the blanket statements some on here make.

Ok - so I actually purposely put Hernandez in there for this reason. You are right - the Pats were warned and probably shouldn't have drafted him, because he wasn't worth the collateral risk to their organization. But him being a drug king pin and a murder had nothing to do with anything the Pats had done. Meyer's warning I think had a lot more to do with not wanting to have that sort of individual around teammates - but you and Southsider are stating the White Sox are directly responsibility for actions that TLR takes behind the wheel or the decisions that Hernandez made - its just crazy talk. Now if the Pats covered up for him and the like or were literally buying him firearms - okay - different story, but none of that is what we are talking about here. Note: And I'd say the same thing, White Sox probably should have made a different decision because of this (when combined with the weight of all the other things). But obviously Jerry didn't - I don't think that means JR condones drunk driving or is responsible for what TLR does (unless TLR & JR are going out to dinner and having a bunch of drinks and TLR says, I'm going to take an uber Jerry and Jerry goes...nah your good).

So are you saying that you think Tony being fired is going to be the wake up call he needs to change? Otherwise - I don't know that Tony being a mgr on the White Sox or retired necessarily changes what Tony is going to do behind the wheel. I suppose you could say it is on the White Sox watch - but reality is - Tony is personally responsible for the choices he makes. I don't really think the Pats were personally responsible for Aaron Hernandez or the Panthers were for Rae Carruth and what they did. Doesn't mean I have to like the TLR hire but I think some of these statements are very extreme and completely put blame on the organization when personal responsibility lies with the person.

I like it.

Yeah - and I agree with you - this years draft is even more of a crapshoot, given fact guys just have a lot less tape so you are really relying on your scouting and measurements and to be frank probably interviews and intelligence on individuals work ethic and character (i.e., do they have Jimmy Bucket type of will to win/drive to get better or are they more or less going to rely on raw physical talents - which sometimes is enough - see Lamar Odom, who was a darn solid player for a long time despite not having an incredible work ethic by any stretch of the imagination.

Meanwhile - no one has any tangible intelligence on the Bulls. They are very tight lipped with minimal reports out there, but only stuff I've seen is maybe they are very interested in Ball and dangling Carter Jr. to trade up. But with how tight lipped everything is, who knows. Maybe they are actually working on a mega trade to get Harden from Houston haha.

NBA off-season is going to be insane. I think you have the 18th, free agency starts on the 20th, players can sign on the 22nd, and than training camp begins on the 1st of December. That is going to be a crazy 2 weeks. I also think I heard - but never saw it official, that teams can maybe start making trades around the 16th (plus any player who wants to opt out I believe needs to do it by the 18th - so people have a better idea of those items heading into draft / free agency).

This. 100% the right play; unless his agent thought he was going to get a big long term deal (probably not happening in this environment and I presume his agent would have been able to do enough intel to figure out if it was the case and/or get an idea of odds), getting paid this year knowing you will be a true FA (with no draft pick overhang) a year from now in what will hopefully be a much better economic environment - no brainer.

Alright - I'm issuing a blanket reminder - keep things civil and respectful. We are all entitled to our opinions and we need to respect each individuals opinion on this site. You don't have to agree with their opinions (and obviously if said opinion is against the site rules - well that is another story), but you need to treat said posters with respect. Just a subtle reminder.

Alright - I think I'm going to shut this thread down. There is a list of sponsors for those who want to reach out to Sox up at the top and a separate thread for discussions on TLR. For those who still support TLR, that is 100% your right as well. We are all Sox fans and I'm sure every Sox fan right now is frustrated for many different reasons, all valid in their own minds. I think we have provided the right outlet for those rants - but I also want to make sure we all keep this civilized.

Wait - Is that a thing - the team specific media has a gag window and can't legitimately report on this news? Seems odd - is that just because there are rules in place to not "overshadow" team specific items related to big MLB announces? Either way - seems odd.

Ok - so Mandalorian takes place after ROTJ - is that right? Does that mean like right after or closer to the most recent 3 where Luke is an old man and Leah eventually dies? Edit: Google is my friend; 5 years after ROTJ and well before the 1st order stuff.