Chisoxfn

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2015 -> 07:23 AM) I'm fine with this season. Next year everyone will say "man the bears performed poorly in one score games, they should see a regression", and they are probably right! The real issue to clean up next year, assuming kicker returns to normal, is penalties. Upgrading at guard seems like it should kill two birds with one stone there. Yeah - Gould is an issue that will get addressed. Either we'll see him correct / clean-up his mechanics or we won't and they'll make changes. The penalties and poor oline play (that sack leading to a fumble in first half was brutal and it wasn't the only lets get Jay killed moment by the oline). You realize our play calling has masked what is still a really horrific unit.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:48 PM) The play calling could have been better, but let's not kid ourselves. This one is on Gould. We were in position to tie and he failed. Okay I realize part of this is cause he missed the easy ones a week before. But 50 yards in those conditions is no gimme. I really don't understand what the hell we were doing with the playcalling, etc. That said, our oline played like ass. I didn't even know how Jay was walking after that first half.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) Saw them all in the theater. Original trilogy in 98 or so when they relaunched as special editions (had obviously already watched on VHS) and the second trilogy on opening nights. Ditto...and somehow I'll continue that tradition on Friday when I see it in non 3D.

Agree, I think Jim does an excellent job. That said, the discussion is awful their (maybe because I'm too old school and can't possibly figure out how to even follow their conversations). I pretty much stick to this forum...any other I find the actual discussion horrible. Just a bunch of people making absurd comments. I know people think Soxtalkers make absurd comments, but damn, some other sites (which are popular) are beyond crazy at how uncivil and terrible the discussion is. For example, chicitysports...my god, I can't even read more than a a few posts. It is pathetic. Sad cause they do get some good discussion on the Bears but too many people just want to say their name associated with a post or something.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 12:43 PM) Iowa State doing their thing again. Were down 20 to Iowa in the 2nd half, closed on a 9 point run to win 83-82. This won't work in B12 play. More like Iowa doing their thing. Seems like they consistently are blowing wins against ISU. Damn that was disappointing.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:53 AM) Yeah, I have some hope that his vision really is messing things up considering he wasn't this bad in playoffs last year, but his complete inability to finish in a crowded space is just heartbreaking. Rose is done. Noah's done. We went from a young, explosive athletic team, to a slow plodding group. Not fun to watch. Yeah - Their is zero reason for him to be worse this season than last season. His passing has taken a step forward, which you would have expected. I didn't expect his shooting to regress from what was already poor though. In his defense, defensively, he's been pretty good the last few nights. Mentally he doesn't have that offensive edge, but the Bulls offense looks pretty s***ty most times anyway of late (no one looks like they know what they want to do). And if we are going to be run and gun, Gasol certainly isn't a fit. I honestly don't think we are a team that should be playing with crazy pace. It doesn't suit a lot of our lineup.

Where is Cheat / Gene Honda?

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:39 AM) Ofcourse they get a ton of credit. But if we're doing about player comparisons I'm not taking Eaton over Jason Heyward. I think comparing their contract status is silly. The circumstances are completely different for each player. They all fit in a 25 man roster with payroll constraints. I want the best roster of talent per $ spent I could put together. If I only had 125M to spend, I could build a better team if I had 5 Adam Eaton's, etc. If I am the Dodgers, I might have a slightly different opinion as the extent I need to have surplus talent is minimized as the payroll capabilities grow higher. When I think about Eaton or Hayward, who is the better player, it is Heyward. When I think of who I'd rather have on the Sox from a building of the franchise perspective, I think they are pretty close. You absolutely can't ignore contracts.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:36 AM) Orioles pulled it. Mixed reports to whether it was ever out their.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:31 AM) I love when people throw the 4 times number out there without context. If Adam Eaton hit the open market today you think he would be signing for a reasonable deal after what Heyward just signed for? No. Heyward hit the market at 26(1 day younger than Rizzo btw). That almost never happens. It's a fairly poor comparison and done without thinking about the situation both are in. You have to give the White Sox credit for trading for Eaton and recognizing the value to lock him up longer term. They get blame when they screw up, but this was a very good thing. Having Eaton on this roster, not only makes the team better (as he's a good player) but it allows the franchise to spend additional resources addressing other needs (similar to say Q or Sale). Heyward is the better player and ultimately on a winning club you need a combination of guys like eaton (who have surplus value vs. their actual contract) and actual star / good players who may not have "surplus" value but are just good / solid all around players (or even stars that are paid to be stars).

Their is a place for both. I think Eaton's contract provides nice surplus value and he's an above average player at his position. I'd like to see him take the next step from a consistency perspective and ideally see him revert back to being an above average fielder. Eaton absolutely has a place in this game and so does Heyward. I am very happy we have an asset like Eaton around for the next few years.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:20 AM) I lot of it for me is his inability to finish. He gets close to the rim, but he's not trying to dunk on people like he used to. He's going through the motions and you can tell on just about every play. And I think it is totally mental at this point. Its the only reason I still have hope that at some point he just gets that swagger back and realizes he needs to play that way. He plays afraid now.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:15 AM) 184/8 is not bad at all, find it hard to believe no one offered 200M, and if someone did I find it even harder to believe that Heyward would leave that much on the table. I think the Nats supposedly offered it. That said, while the Nats are talented, with all the clubhouse saga's you heard of, would you really want to spend the next 8 years committed their? I'm surprised he left the Cards to be honest (if they were offering similar money). Maybe he just wants to play in a large market and have a shot at being a hero (if you win the series with the Cubs, you'll be a legend and be able to eat and entertain in chicago for free for life).

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:18 AM) Possible, but I don't think a long playoff run would do it. I think sox fans would become like the atlanta fans where playoff game wouldn't even sellout because they weren't satisfied with the lack of world series wins. Sox fans have a long history of looking for excuses to not support the team. The Braves have averaged 2.7M fans over the past 25 years. The White Sox averaged 2M fans in that same span. From 05 to 08 (1 World Series and 1 Other PLayoff Performance) they averaged 2.6M. Within that range the Sox had a 90 win club that didn't make the playoffs and than a really disappointing 72 win club. In reality, the Sox are probably in a different place had the new wild card rules been in effect. I don't know exactly, but I think we'd have quite a few more appearances in that 2000 - 2009 window.

When are the Bulls going to hit free throws more consistently. They do that in a few of their losses and we are talking about the 1 seed in the East. I also can't figure out how we suck so much at rebounding. I do know that I want nothing to do with a 76ers like rebuild.

I think Hayward's defensive value decreases with his move to the Cubs. Wrigely doesn't have a lot of real estate in the outfield, which limits some of Heyward's defensive upside. That said @ 23M a year, I can't argue this deal one bit from the Cubs perspective. They have a nice window and they are looking to maximize it. From the Sox perspective, the downside to this is it means Cespedes / Upton / Gordon suitors still include the Cards (+ maybe Angels / Giants / Nats / others who lost out on Heyward). Will be curious to see how quickly their markets move. Presume Cards will look at Gordon. I would be quite pleased with either Gordon or Upton.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:07 AM) This move has not changed the fact that the sox are an afterthought. They have been since 1984. The sox are like the mets of new york. They each would need to win 4 world series in the next decade to not be the afterthoughts. If the White Sox went on a run, similar to that of the Angels in the 2000's, I think they would quickly grow in popularity / dominance. I don't think it takes sustained world series, it takes a world series along with sustained playoff contention (and playoff appearances). The Sox had shots to capitalize but could never actually put that consistent run of getting into the playoffs together. You look back over the Ken Williams era (as GM / president) and I can think of very few cases where the actual record was better than the perceived talent level. I can think of a hell of a lot of situations where the actual record was worse than the perceived talent level. Not sure what that means. Bad roster architect, bad luck, poor coaching or what, but that is a pretty long-term trend that has popped up during Kenny's time at the helm.

To be honest, after this move, I would think Theo is on the horn almost immediately with Hahn (amongst other GM's) trying to see if he can get one of our cost controlled front-line starters. Get the Cubs & Dodgers in a bidding war.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 10:48 AM) Baseball is fun because of that, nothing is guaranteed, that said they "should" be a beast for the next 5 years or so. Now how about the Sox step up the game and lets make the cross-town rivalry a great and competitive rivalry between two world series contenders!!!

Cubs should be able to afford this type of move though and it clearly makes them a better team. Good for the Cubs. That said, I can think over just the past few years how many teams were anointed offseason champs and never even made the playoffs. Think of the love the Nats have gotten in recent years, or go back to the Phillies when they added Roy and Cliff Lee and how good they were supposed to be.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 10:36 AM) Twitter rumors of 31.5 aav. I'm at peace with this if that becomes true. That is juts insane if that is the case. Also, presumably makes it less likely Sox go after any of the outfielders we've thought they might be after. I still think Upton is one of the guys who might outproduce his actual contract. Tools are their for him to take steps forward and his historical production is worthy of his rumored offers.

I didn't realize Dexter had the qualifying offer attached to him. That makes me less intrigued.

Haven't heard any rumors on Fowler, other than the Giants had been kicking tires. Offensively, he's put up 5 consecutive years of OPS+ in excess of 100, including a high of 120 2 years ago in the AL (albeit in an offensive park for the Astros). Defensively the metrics aren't positive on him, but he's roughly a 2 WAR player, whose lowest OBP in a full season was the .346 he put up last year. He's still on the right side of 30 (albeit not for long) and can steal bases. His strikeout numbers jumped significantly this past year, not sure why, but that is about the only real regression that I saw out of Fowler (but he also doubled his HR production). For those concerned how he'd deal with the smaller outfield with the Sox, I'd argue Wrigley has just as small of an outfield (vs. say Houston / Colorado where he played most of his career) and the numbers he posted would be significant upgrades over our other options. What sort of money / years is he looking at? I'd think at the right price (as kind of a forgotten guy on the market), he could actually be a solid value signing. Note: My opinion on this has changed. I didn't realize / forgot he had the QO attached to him and thus we'd lose our comp pick.

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS Cubs get heyward

Gordon Wittenmyer ‏@GDubCub Multiple sources indicate Heyward has indeed chosen Cubs over Cards, Nats.