Chisoxfn

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) Since Dombrowski was originally with the Sox, wouldn't hiring him be a loyalty move? It is actually why, of all things, I could see the consultant angle possibly working. I still put those odds at so low because JR clearly thinks extremely highly of Ken Williams and I don't think he'd do that to Kenny. The other option would be Kenny and JR have already had the conversation relating to the Blue Jays and basically at the end of the season the Sox are going to let Kenny explore other interests and thus Dombrowski could come in without really ruffling all that many feathers (outside of potentially Hahn's). I don't think Kenny is here for much longer (and no I don't see Sox firing him, rather, I see Kenny leaving on his own accord). For those who say JR is afraid to hire good baseball people, I think that would be crazy. I think he knows the better baseball people their, the better the team, and in theory, the more profitable his franchise (not to mention he does like to win...just not at all costs).

The only realistic way of hiring him would be if JR said, okay Dave, I need to bring you in here to help me evaluate what is going on with the club and if we are headed in the right direction (with an understanding that long-term Dave wants a more lucrative job so this is just a temporary thing for the rest of the season...a friend helping a friend). Can you come in and give me your opinion of the franchise, the direction, the people, and what you think. The downside of this, you might piss some people off and you might also get an inherently biased answer (cause Dave could be looking out for himself and want the job to begin with), but depending on what his goals are, you might get a pretty clear assessment as the owner of the franchise from an incredibly respected guy and knowledgeable guy. I always wish we did something similar with LaRussa (who knows, maybe Jerry has). Plus, lets be honest, Dombrowski should have a pretty good idea of our franchise anyway, given the rivalry.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) The big assumptions are that Samardjiza keeps pitching like he has, and that the market for baseball players doesn't completely collapse before November. In 2015, a pitcher like Jeff Samardjiza is a $100 million pitcher. I am not entirely sure about that. Shields thought he was, turns out he wasn't. More then ever teams are focusing more and more on stats and while Shark's stats are good, he really hasn't been the elite pitcher everyone thinks he is and I think he'll struggle to get paid as much. It is why I think, for the right price, it could make sense to sign him. That presumes he sits around for while and the market shrinks (kind of like what happened with Shields).

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 01:43 PM) If the Sox do anything in free agency I think it will be Cespedes. The term of the deal won't be as long and no draft pick compensation attached make him a solid match. Upton and Heyward will be out of the realm of possibility for the Sox. I think Upton will be a bad idea. Teams are too enamored with his skill set and his one season and tend to ignore his actual production, which will good, is nowhere near as good as the contract he'll get. The same might happen with Heyward and the real question is how his defensive value will trend as he ages and whether you bet on his bat continuing to improve or not. Guy is loaded with talent and should be a much better hitter then he is. Cespedes would seem like the guy who would be the best value signing...how will he age is a question but if you can get him 3 years, 4 max, then it might not be so bad. Part of it depends on what he does in the post-season (if he gets to the post-season) as that could inflate his value if he gets all hot.

Was he actually fired or was this more for Dave to pursue other things? We also will never know how much certain signings were tied to Dombrowski thinking they were the right moves vs. Ilitch saying, its okay, I'd rather pay the extra premium knowing the potential downside.

Dombrowski might have given out some bad contracts, but he is a fantastic baseball guy, one of the absolute bests. That said, the White Sox don't usually get in the habit of bringing in high paying consultants and I presume that is all Dave would be at this time. Me, I'd look at bringing him as the CEO to let Kenny out to do his thing, however, I'm a realist and understand it won't happen. While people are going to say Red Sox, it seems like their successor is already set. Funny thing is, Larry Luchino is a fantastic CEO of a franchise as well and would make an upstanding hire if the Sox wanted to go that direction. Before people talk about what he did in Boston and say well he had a large market franchise, lets not forget his successes in Baltimore and San Diego.

He is a great baseball guy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 10:15 AM) Going back farther we had no 2nd rounders in 2008 or 2005. Just noting that it does play a role. I would reckon we are on the very low side in terms of giving up picks. On the flip side, its been a long time since we were on the receiving end of picks as well (again, we are probably on the very low side). I recall back in 04 or so when we whiffed on Lumsden / Lucy / Whisler / etc. Horrific use of those picks all things considered.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 10:10 AM) They sacrificed their 2011 first round pick for Adam Dunn as well. That said, outside of Dunn and going back through basically all of the 2000's, I presume that was the only time, correct? So long term, you really can't talk about our draft being bad because we lost first round picks due to signing free agents.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 10:10 AM) They sacrificed their 2011 first round pick for Adam Dunn as well. I was thinking they must have, but decided I didn't want to look up. As If I didn't already dislike the Dunn signing enough, haha. If memory serves me right, that was the year we would have taken Walker then with our first pick.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 09:49 AM) While I believe there has been improvement with regard to selecting pitchers, if I wanted to play Devil's Advocate...I could just say that the White Sox followed up a period where the team averaged winning 53% of their games with a period where the team has won 46.7% of their games over a 5 season period and as a consequence of nothing other than that their draft performance should have improved. While that may not be all of it....that has to be noted. They're regularly losing right now. That keeps them drafting higher and it keeps them from losing their 1st round pick when they sign FA. Losing picks for signing people is pretty much a moot point with the Sox. Other then this past off-season, had we lost picks for anyone in recent years? While picking higher helps, I would argue in the draft, it is a crapshoot anyway so you don't get near as significant of an advantage picking top 10 as you do in say the NFL / NBA. The interesting play in all of this is going to be how our international guys pan out. Those signings take years to gauge and we really are still new players their (due to combination of the Wilder fiasco and Sox being cheap prior to the updated international signing rules which attempted to level the playing field a bit) so we are probably still 3-5 years from seeing potential true pick ups in the overall quality of the farm system (where the supply of talent isn't just coming from the draft). Outside of El Caballo and Maggs, Its been forever since we've developed any sort of impactful foreign talent (Viciedo is an exception as he wasn't drafted as a guy you were going to sit in the farm for years to develop...plus he didn't exactly turn into a productive player). If this organization is going to take the next level in terms of enhancing the farm system, it will not only take strong domestic drafting, but it will take consistently strong international classes as well. And then of course their is the development side of the house as well. One thing I want to see is for the White Sox to recognize what the Cubs and Dodgers are doing (not in terms of having all the cash / resources to spend money) but from the perspective of how they are focused and diligent when it comes to finding the best talent and developing it. Clearly both teams have an advantage in the sense that they are willing to break the international free agent rules and that helps significantly. Plus they have additional revenues to fortify the major league team (vs. having to use prospects) but having a strong farm system is critical to contend, especially if you are going to do it without spending $150M+ on payroll. The Sox aren't in a position where they can consistently win by being aggressive and buying in free agency. They need to try and do things more like the Cardinals, use that farm system, trade when necessary, but get a lot of mileage out of home grown talent. Then use FA to be smart and then every once in a great while, make the aggressive play in FA to try and help put you over the top (but don't ever use FA as a quick fix).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 08:13 AM) Alan Keyes, that was definitely about branding and books and speaking engagements, same with Huckabee now, Gingrich, Santorum, Trump and Fiorina. What is Herman Cain up to now, btw? Fiorina has spent massive amounts of her own money. It has nothing to do with her branding and if it did, she was an idiot. Same with Newt and others.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 08:01 PM) You do realize Obamacare is way to the right of the Romney and Clinton versions...? The Pacific Trade Agreement is liberal? The majority of foreign policy in the Middle East has been following the so-called Bush Doctrine, other than the recent Iran move...so I guess the GOP would prefer a full-scale invasion, as sanctions definitely haven't worked? If Obama was a candidate in the 60s 70s or 80s, he would have been considered a moderate/centrist. He should have let all the banks and auto manufacturers go bankrupt? I didn't see any members of the GOP like Romney applauding that idea, although he did go down to defeat saying he would have let DET implode even when it turned out to be a great investment by the government. Let me make one thing clear. This is a republican thread. I didn't come in here to defend my thoughts on Obama to a lefty and don't need to. I am talking about the primary with other republicans. I was giving my perspective on my views as a republican amongst other republican voters.

One thing to point out. Over the past few years the Sox philosphy on drafting did take a fundamental shift. I don't know if that was driven by Hostetler or Hahn or whom, but the reality is, when you look at our early round picks, we have had quite a few successes or at least perceived successes (still way too early technically on Rodon / Fullmer) after an extended run of stinkers in the early rounds. We also have seen the farm system get stronger. What we still haven't been able to figure out is how to develop (or find) the right position players and I don't know that we have necessarily changed that trend (although you have to give Sox credit for Semien (A's) / Saladino / Sanchez / Micah who all look like they should play at least a few years in the majors, if not more) and obviously Anderson is the one top end position prospect trending in the right direction. I might be overstating on Saladino cause he's probably the one I have the least faith in of the bunch but I like his presence enough to stay patient with him, however, he will never play as a starter at 3B (and I highly doubt he'll be able to stick at SS either, I think Saladino's best bet is as a super sub where Sanchez and Micah could potentially both start with the main issue being they both play the same position (although Sanchez might be able to play a good enough SS).

Bush is my top choice and I actually think he'd have a shot at winning the general election if his last name wasn't Bush. However, since it is, I don't know if he'd get enough of the independent vote in a general election. For all the reasons I like him, smart, moderate, but progressive, he won't actually get the republican nomination. Too much of the party has fallen way too to the right because of how insane Obama is and it just drives me nuts cause a good moderate candidate would be able to win and would be a boon for this country. The far wacky right drives me just as mad. They are creating the need for a 3rd party, but the problem is it just means while the 3rd party is created, the left can continue to do whatever they want.

Bush is my top choice and I actually think he'd have a shot at winning the general election if his last name wasn't Bush. However, since it is, I don't know if he'd get enough of the independent vote in a general election. For all the reasons I like him, smart, moderate, but progressive, he won't actually get the republican nomination. Too much of the party has fallen way too to the right because of how insane Obama is and it just drives me nuts cause a good moderate candidate would be able to win and would be a boon for this country. The far wacky right drives me just as mad. They are creating the need for a 3rd party, but the problem is it just means while the 3rd party is created, the left can continue to do whatever they want.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 02:45 PM) When was the last time a 30-year-old pitcher was signed to a big contract and was actually worth the money? Grienke? He might also be one of the only ones.

I would think Hawkins would be a given.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 10:32 AM) Was just about to come in and post on that. Rookies learning curve is huge, difficult to come in and produce right away. It also sounds like Fuller still sucks and already has nagging injuries. Fuller supposedly has had a really good day in practice (and I think they said had a good day yesterday). Started off slow but picking it up. Did he just get hurt or something?

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 10:17 AM) Yeah I was kind of thinking this is bad too. But what can be a long term injury that is of the shin? Nothing, but long-term implications of the season won't be good if he can't play. Hard to get up to speed as a rookie wideout as is (although in recent years their have been some more rookie's who have clearly done well) but sitting out for a while and the whole thing being a brand new offense (not just for him, but for team) doesn't bode well to any impacts he'll make this year. Hopefully it is all premature and he's back in the next few days. Fact that he is still in a pool gives me cause for concerns. Seems odd for a shin injury to extend this long anyway. He's already missed 6 weeks. I do like the reports I've been reading about the camp. That said, I have heard too many seasons of good reports so I'll keep it limited. I hear offense looking good and I think, welp, our defense probably just sucks hard, haha. That said, I have such a good feeling about the long-term future of this franchise with Fox / Pace in charge.

White's injury seems to be a real problem. Fox is very noncomittal and some indications that he might not practice at all in bourbanais (sp?).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 02:51 PM) The problem for us is...as you say, they got clearly better. That certainly seems to make it a lot harder for us to gain the remaining WC ground, right? Absolutely, but you don't see me pleased with what we did. I'd have bought a long-term bat and gone for it or I'd have traded Shark (presuming you got an offer of at least a top 100 guys + something else). If you didn't get an offer like that, I would just hold on to Shark.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 02:47 PM) Great you can sit there and play the stand pat card. Your not going to receive sympathy for trying. Toronto and Baltimore are going for it and trying to make a playoffs. They know they can make any more excuses. It's do or die. AA is under pretty much a make the playoffs or your fired line, so what good to him is his farm system and a longer term plan if he can't get in the playoffs. I think the Sox doing what the Jays did would have been bad given our current roster (not to mention we wouldn't have had the horses to do it). That said, at least a few of the guys they got will be under team control.

QUOTE (asindc @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 02:35 PM) How does the fact that he wasn't traded indicate that they were unwilling to do so? Should we also assume that they were unwilling to trade LaRoche for Trout? Yeah, I am with you. Just cause he wasn't traded doesn't mean they weren't willing to trade him. I don't know that they were really listening and if they were, I presume it would have taken an overly strong offer to get him (vs. a normal offer) but just because someone isn't traded doesn't mean a team wasn't listening. If they didn't get an offer that made sense to KW / RH and that would be an offer that outweighs benefits of comp pick + continuing to give it a run with the current club, then they didn't pull the trigger. We can say we'd have done things different but to clearly assume that is just absurd. Were the Pads never interested in moving Upton? They were, they just never got a price they felt was good enough. They might have been crazy cause they aren't near as close to the WC spot as we are, but they clearly in their eyes, didn't think the offer was worthwhile.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0723-story.html Its pretty plain and simple to me. Yeah my memory was different from reality. No surprise. I corrected my post.