Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Jul 19, 2015 -> 07:13 PM) And 10 GO/2 FO. Overall the strikeout rate this year has been a little disappointing, but his 1.20 BB/9 is excellent. He also was said to make some adjustments and start buying into what the org was saying pretty recently (based upon Wil's interview with Bautista). I'd say that the arrows are pointed up with Adams and that is a good thing, given how highly everyone thought of him in the off-season.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:50 PM) I think the team will make some moves in the next 10 days but honestly I don't think you'll be seeing changes to the coaching staff or manager this off season. Right or wrong the Sox are a very loyal organization. JR, Kenny, Hahn are all in Robin's corner. Now he may resign, there's always that chance but from what I'm hearing he will not be fired. Mark I think Robin will step down and resign at the end of the season (unless things turn around). I don't ever see him managing another team.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 18, 2015 -> 03:33 PM) On today's date, this White Sox traded Doug Drabek and more. http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2015/07/t...x-history-0718/ I always remember the 2nd time we traded Doug Drabek as he was part of our famous white flag trades.

Took Balta a year to convince me Connor was worth anything and then as soon as I finally came around, he went completely into the tank. Connor, too bad, their were times where I saw some offensive potential, but defensively, you were offensive.

Thought this was a very interesting read and Mark put together an excellent case for why we should be patient on Ramirez. I was expecting the stats to back up the fact that he wasn't hitting the ball hard, but it seems like, more then anything, Ramirez is going through some undue luck at the plate (driven largely from a low BAPIP and an even lower HR bat (despite having good exit velocities and typical line drive rates (compared to his career). While we have seen some defensive regression, Ramirez has made some major positive jumps in the defensive metrics over the past month as well, which would indicate a lot of what was going on defensively was mental (and for all I know, might have been a carry forward from some errors he took too rough and/or his offensive struggles). Given how much heat Alexei takes on here, I thought this was a good read and I agree on the premise. Unless another team was going to give us prospects betting on a Ramirez bounce back, their is far more upside in us keeping him and seeing him turn around during 2nd half (to justify bringing him back) vs. losing him for near nothing. Now if you could get an intriguing prospect, matters get interesting, but if we did that, we'd open up a major hole at a critical position wihle intending to contend. This would become a moot point of if we acquired a SS (or top SS prospect elsewhere) but Tim Anderson is still pretty raw and probably at least a year away (and maybe longer if we are talking about defense, an area of need), so while I think Anderson's bat could play next year and be ready, his glove at SS is a major work in process.

What to Do With Alexei Ramirez

http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2015/07/t...x-history-0717/ Link to the full story. Always enjoy the "this date in Sox" history.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) On the post game show I caught the comment where the Royals are apparently interested in Shark. Mark Inter division trades are usually hard, however, with Shark an impending FA, I think the risk of the deal haunting the Sox long-term is minimized, which then means the ball is purely in the Royals court, and to be frank, the upside of a potential World Series, probably would negate their normal concerns with trading within the division. Additionally, the Sox and Royals have actually made some trades in the past (Getz for Teahen for example). I will also point out the Royals farm system is middle of the pack and the bulk of their top prospects are pitching prospects, so I'd think if we made a move with the Royals, we'd want to get a 3rd team involved who had interest in their pitching prospects and would flip us some positional talent. Heck, maybe Boston is that team. Boston might be serious about moving their young Cuban and they clearly could use some pitching prospects. Of course their #1 prospetc is Mondesi, a SS (Ranked in Top 25 by 2 major publications in their midseason list). He has issues with patience, but people love his tools. His stats are nothing to write home about though, so for him, the risk is much higher. He's also had some back issues, IIRC.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 09:59 AM) huh, I thought the building in Mount Prospect was the headquarters https://www.bsh-group.com/laender/us/ According to the site, the home appliance company is headquartered in Irvine. I presume Mount Prospect is another division (not appliances)?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 02:33 PM) What weirds me out is how it seems like some of the team is starting to pick it up, and yet the results are the same. Technically the results have been much improved from a W/L perspective last two weeks. Much of that is driven by pitching staff and defense not being as bad. Offense still stinks.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) If you can get a top of the league player at C as the key piece in a deal I wouldn't complain at all, all I'd ask in response is why that's preferable to getting a top of the league talent in one of the corner OF spots. If you could replace Avi with a top of the league corner OF it's a bigger upgrade than replacing Flowers with one and both Flowers and Avi have the problem of moving forward in their arb years the next couple seasons. Replacing Avi with one of the best corner outfielders in baseball (and someone under team control through 2020) is a bigger upgrade than getting a top catching prospect, imo. The catching prospect has just as much risk of busting and the potential upside probably isn't near as close when compared to the significant upgrade you gain in the OF. I guess the problem is, people don't realize how significant defense is in this era, and just how bad our current outfield defense is (let alone looking at the offensive production). With as crappy of defense as our corner outfielders play, they'd have to hit like Babe Ruth to rank near the top in OF production (and I don't see that magically happening).

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 12:40 PM) That blows my mind. Welcome to 2015 and the post PED era (also consistent with the vast majority of baseball history). Catchers that can hit are an extremely rare breed. The toll taken from catching games (as well as time spent on pitch calling / opposing stats / etc) juts makes it so difficult to be able to hit for much. Its why an upgrade at C is nice, but compared to what we have going on in the outfield and at 3B, it pales in comparison to overall importance.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 12:03 PM) i hate to ruin anybodies parade, but the sox doesn't need help in the outfield. so why add to that and let the other holes go untouched. Sox OF WAR, I believe, is the worst in all of baseball. I don't know any scenario where anyone would say that all around we have anything even close to an average outfield. Adding Puig is a mega upgrade. Edit: Sorry, late to the party but I see Balta has already covered this.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 11:28 AM) The Sox wouldn't do Q for Puig straight up. If the Sox trade Q, it will be to get an above average ML ready 3B or C, + some other high upside prospects. The Sox definitely would not just throw Avi in the deal in addition. Let's fix the holes we have, not fix something that isn't broken (I am not an Avi hater, and want to give him at least another 1.5 seasons - the dude is young). Puig = 9.8 WAR in 295 MLB games. Garcia = -.5 WAR in 218 games. I realize Garcia could develop, but lets not act like we aren't talking about a significant upgrade here.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) Neither. He's always been overrated. Sure, he hasn't been this bad, but he's nowhere near as good as everyone thinks. Also, keep in mind that's in just 43 games. He had a DL stint. So his 143 and 159 OPS+ were make believe? It isn't like those were over small sample sizes (1.5 years of baseball) including multiple stretches where he was the best player in the game. He's also had some runs where he has struggled. He is very very good and he's very very young. The tools are their, he has production, etc. This isn't some guy who hasn't proven anything. He had one of the best starts to his career of any player in baseball history (and the production matched the tools). Other then people complaining about his attitude and some flaws in his approach, etc (that he more then makes up with thanks to massive tools), what part is overrated. Seems to me that people are severely underrating him because he's got a bad idea. By the way, watch him play, while he might have attitude issues and be prone to mental miscues, this isn't some guy who is loafing it out on the field. He plays with an edge and is extremely aggressive. In fact, most think his struggles this year have been combo of the time off from injuries as well as fact that the Dodgers have messed with him a bit. He needs to play with that edge and the sox need people like him. I also think Abreu and Ramirez would be nice, stabilizing presences in the lockeroom. We can listen to all the reports but right now, the cool thing in the media is to bash Puig's attitude, but I'd much rather watch him then anyone else on our roster not named Sale.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 11:16 AM) If they're desperate, they should take Q and Danks for Puig. They are in first place with I believe 5 or 6 top 50 prospects (including at least 2 in the top 10 and possibly three...going off of memory here) and a huge payroll. They are not desperate. The White Sox are much more desperate in comparison. Are we desperate to trade Q, no, but we are desperate to improve our current situation, imo. If we aren't, we should be. We need to significantly upgrade our everyday lineup and we don't have significant upgrades on the way in the minors. We do have potential upgrades in the rotation in the minors, but that isn't an area of weakness. We could move those pitchers for position talent but we could also do some combinations and as far as I'm concerned, moving Q (better if you could move Shark, but I would be more surprised if that were to happen) for Puig is just something the White Sox need to do.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 11:15 AM) I'm glad you brought up Grienke. His impeding opt out makes the Dodgers even more desperate for a guy like Q. I agree the Sox are in need of hitting talent but not desperate to trade Q. There is a market for both Samardzija and Robertson, both of which can be traded to infuse more hitting talent into the Sox organization. And no, I'm not kidding you about his attitude. His attitude has been written about more than a few times going back to 2013 and here's the latest written about Puig's attitude. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2511284...dgers-teammates I know its the bleacher report but the quotes in the article speak volumes. If you trade Robertson, you aren't getting a game changer back. Roberton's contract is long term and while its fair, it isn't any sort of bargain and the size of that deal is going to put very few teams in play, to be frank. So I don't see how moving Shark / Robertson gives you access to anyone at the level of Puig. Regarding Puig, I live in SoCal, so I'm more then familiar with his attitude. I'm also familiar with how he plays on the field and while he has miscues and issues (showing up on time, etc), when he's on the field, he generally plays overly aggressive and that is the exact opposite of the vast majority of our roster and to be frank, i'd rather have the over aggressive guy then the under aggressive guy.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 11:06 AM) There's no question about that. I said Q for Puig was fair; I just wouldn't do it because of Puig's immaturity. Puig has big upside and big risks. Q is steady. Is their that much risk in Puig. Even if he's crazy, he's still performing above his contract. I don't see him not being an above average player and would think ultimately, greater injury risk is with a pitcher. When I consider our needs and the complete lack of positional talent, the fact that you could put Puig in the middle of our order and have him help stabilize the defense is huge, imo. Seems like a perfect match as Dodgers get a lot of benefits here as well. Like I said, I'm all for asking for me, but when push comes to shove, I think Puig replacing Q makes us a better team (especially when I factor what we have in the minors).

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 11:00 AM) Colorado would probably be more agreeable to a Danks/CarGo swap than we think. They'd love to save $20 million. I don't know if the Rockies do that due to perception. If I'm Sox, I'd consider it, but you might just add another guy who is paid more then he's worth (injured / unproductive). I presume Rockies would rather send some cash along and get an actual pitching prospect, etc, or would just prefer to keep him and see if he can have a big 2nd half and thus be more moveable in the off-season. I kind of think I'm staying away from CarGo unless we get some major package in our favor. While upside is their, major downside seems to exist as well and I'd rather stay away from that.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) Trading Q for Puig would certainly get some of the burden off Garcia. Trading Shark would never net a return like this. If the Sox could resign Shark and get Puig for Q, you still have a formidable pitching staff. Sale, Shark, Rodon, Johnson, Fulmer? Maybe sign a FA for one year to give Fulmer time. I agree with the above and would be a huge proponent of it.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 10:50 AM) I think it's important to note that it's the Dodgers that are desperate for pitching and to shed Puig's contract. By no means are the Sox desperate to move Q which gives them the upper hand in any trade talks involving Q. Again, why would the Sox want a proven head case who's numbers are not all that impressive this year. Also keep in mind who Spiegel works for, The Score. Let's say the Sox are interested in Puig. Due to both the Sox and Dodgers needing to move an outfielder, its likely a third team needs to be brought into the mix in order for it to happen. Not that it could not happen, just adds to the difficulty of the trade. Again, Puig has a s*** attitude and the Dodgers can keep it. If the Dodgers really are desperate to move Puig then trade talks begin with Puig for Samardzija and go from there. No chance I would trade Q for that head case. Just my opinion though. Yasiel Puig's career OPS+ would be 3rd best in White Sox franchise history (behind only Frank Thomas & Shoeless Joe Jackson). Are you kidding me with his attitude. Last year he put up a 140 OPS+. Also, while Dodgers want pitching, I don't know if they are desperate for it. I'd say Sox are more desperate for positional talent then Dodgers are for pitching. They do have Grienke and Kershaw a top of their rotation. And while the Dodgers might be dangling Puig, lets not act like his contract is a disaster. He is signed to an extremely affordable deal (although he probably will opt out and take arbitration a few times). Still, he's under team control until 2020.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 10:45 AM) If we could send them John Danks, I'd think about it. I'd think about a pitching prospect and Melky. To your point I'd move danks but I doubt they'd do that. Without us giving them a contract though I can't see a match. His contract doesn't match his production (especially when adjusting for health).

Lip...take note. If the Sox don't pull the trigger on Puig (and we find out we turned down the offer), he could be a guy you will be writing about in a version of this 15-20 years from now. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yasiel-puigs-historic-start/

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 10:43 AM) A lot of people don't get along with Puig. No. Puig is a good player, but not great. Quintana for Puig is a "fair" trade, but not one I would do. Puig's production has declined each season. Certainly wouldn't throw Avi in there. Put a list together of guys at age 22 and 23 respectively, put up OPS+ > 140 in both seasons (159 & 143, repectively). The below is a lil bit dated article, but look at the names on that list. If we turn down the shot at Q, Lip is going to be writing an article about how one of the greatest players in baseball history could have been a White Sox. The upside of a Q for Puig package (maybe Sox give up a guy on their side or Dodgers add a name, but primary package being these 2) is going to be with the White Sox, imo. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yasiel-puigs-historic-start/

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 10:37 AM) You'd be willing to dangle Anderson for SEager? Like...top five prospect in all of baseball seager? I mean, yeah of course you would but we couldn't even get Seager for Q straight up. I don't know about that. And I said that would be my starting price. Didn't say we would get him and the more I think about it, I'd actually be willing to give on the other side to get Puig. And I think their is potential Dodgers would give up Seager (or Urias) for Q. I just don't know that I could do that if I'm the Sox. The 1 for 1 upside isn't that great vs. the potential downside (Seager or U bust and we ended up losing a well above average cost controlled player). It is why if I'm moving any of our top cost controlled pitchers for a prospect, I'd need multiple top prospects back. Q is proven, cheap and cost controlled...I'm not trading him for someone who is all of those things except proven with the potential upside maybe being a tick better then Q. Puig's upside is game changing star. I'll trade Q for that. In fact, for 2 years, he was right behind Trout (and maybe ahead of Harper) when it came to the games most exciting young players.