Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) Yeah, but only 2 of those games were this season. Woulda been nice to give him a week there just to get the footing down. His upside is as a utility player. He'll have to grow. If he can't develop and make it because a shortstop is playing a few games in an uncomfortable position, well he'll never make it. As a SS, this should be easy. Are their some things he'll have to learn and refine, absolutely. We also have no knowledge of where he took his infield in the minors as he might have gotten other opportunities vs. pure game opportunities to work on fielding their. Sox have another guy in AAA who they want to get as much reps at 3B in case somehow he learns how to hit so you aren't going to just turn over those reps to a guy whose upside is that of a utility player (not that I even like Davidson either).

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) f*** Brady I was right...he's better, way better

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) yeah jimmy butler resigned for 5 yrs and all i was saying, i would have traded butler. but the other problem was getting rid of rose. i hope i am wrong, but i don't have confidence in the bulls while rose is on the team. So you'd have got rid of Butler and Rose and just made the Bulls suck instead (see my post above). That would have put them back into the early post Jordan era and would have been awful. You don't break up a consensus top 2 team in the East and you certainly don't just assume the Cavs are going to win every title from here on out. That is foolish. You want to just put yourself with the long list of teams who suck and are tanking cause they think it is easy to do? The flipping Lakers of all people can't even sign major free agent contracts, Knicks have the same issue. You need to have good players and and transcendental generational players rarely fall in your laps so to tank and hope you get the top pick in a class where a Lebron / AD / Duncan type talent is their is just a hopeless / loserless proposition.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) the bulls are entrench with Rose and his contract. other than that, i would really trade Butler to the lakers for what they would be willing to part with. lakers really like butler. i wonder if rose is really unmovable??? What are you talking about. Butler isn't available. He just signed a mega contract (which will be a value contract if he plays similar to he did last year) and will only become more of a value going forward. And what do they Lakers have to offer? Their 1st round pick next year is Philly's (unless Lakers pick in top 3 and if they had Butler they wouldn't) and them offering Randle and Russell wouldn't be near enough for the Bulls to trade Butler (not that they even could at this point anyway). I find all of this talk about blowing up a team that is widely regarded as the 2nd best in the East complete and utter crap. You don't blow up teams that are knocking right on the door of championships, you try to improve them, and sometimes that improvement comes from within (or other teams getting worse). If people followed a lot of the logic applied here, the Bulls would have never won 1 championship, let alone six. Afterall, it took Jordan until his 7th season to win his first title. If you all ran the team, we'd just spend all the time trading away players and we'd consistently be as crappy as Philly. The Lakers (Shaq / Kobe) probably wouldn't have won any titles either, as it took quite a few years until Shaq / Kobe won their titles too. Took Jordan and the Admiral to retire until the Lakers finally got their titles. Reality is most teams take some time to win titles with few exceptions (albeit the recent exception was Boston and Miami through super FA moves / super trades). Even then it took at least a year. Cavs might enter that same realm. Warriors were not built that way and took time (Steph was in his 6th NBA season with Klay being in his 4th season). In fact, if you throw out injury years, the Bulls two best players will kind of be in similar positions from that perspective (Rose / Butler).

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 12:54 PM) Mirotic would definitely have to be involved. I think in a potential 3 team deal where the Bulls say give up 2 future firsts for a good player on a rebuilding team to then give to Sacramento, it maybe becomes workable. If they wanted to just start over yet save face, you could see where Noah, Dougie, future picks and snell would potentially be intriguing. However, given what they wanted from Denver...that is a pipe dream.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) Isn't it about what they are paying Keppinger to play in a beer league? Avi has his warts, but there is potential, and they guy seems willing to give a big effort. He isn't much of a problem right now or the next couple of years. I'd say the issue would be if we were pegging him to be our clean-up hitter 2 years from now (or even next year) and he is coming off of consistent negative production seasons (factoring in defense, etc) then you probably have an issue in the sense that you can't compete. That said, as long as you are fair in your evaluation of Avi, his actual salary isn't in any way shape or form going to put you back or prevent you from adding to the club. However, his success would be better cause it gives you a cost controlled guy and one less spot you have to address. As I've long said, I wouldn't bet against Avi's bat, I just don't like his bat in relation to his D, but I'd also point out that he's still extremely young and to be frank, given his tools, there is no reason he should be this bad of a defender.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) Money-wise the $4.5 million isn't crippling I agree, but it's enough that it's getting in the way. That'd also be an awful lot of money to pay him if he's just a backup. By 2017, we're talking what, $7-8 million, probably more with revenue growth? I'd have to imagine he's non-tendered if he's basically this same player at that point. I'm certainly not paying him 7-8M for his current production. If I had to pay him 4.5M next year and thought I still saw something, I'd probably do it, but 7-8M, no. Lets remember that $4M is what we paid Emil for. Again, that is not the type of money that should get in the way of contending / not-contending. It is the big time contracts that blow up in your face (as well as bad player development, etc) which get in your way. Beck's is the type of guy getting $2M.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 11:18 AM) The 2m in 2016 is not a big deal, it's the "if he remains this same player he can 100% completely sabotage people's plans for how this team competes next year". If you're like me and think this franchise is a mess you don't care about that, you play him and see if maybe something turns out well. But, if you're like the people who argue "we just need 1 or 2 more pieces" like some in this thread...if he remains this player filling the 3b and SS holes will not be enough. In 2017 the money actually starts becoming a big deal. That's a lot to pay a guy if his track record is a below-replacement player. I'm more concerned about his production (and am 100% content on letting him play out the year with lot of at bats...at that point, you need to evaluate the full body of work and tools and think about what makes sense for next year...do you peg him as a starter or do you peg him as a quality back-up with upside or are you better off moving him for another piece in a change of scenery move). The $2M and $4.5M are in no way financially crippling and aren't even guaranteed so if club found other options you could cut release with minimal risk. I also don't see any scenario where Garcia is crippling to the franchise in the next 2 years to the contention plans. Maybe if you can only contend if he turns into Mike Trout, then sure, but as long as you plan accordingly, you aren't talking about having to put a guy on the bench whose making $15M/yr with a long term contract.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) i am not disputing the logic. i am trying to think that the pen would become more important in the playoff. that is why a great pen would help out much more, esp when the team goes on the short rotation. i will still keep Rodon in the starting rotation. no team will play minimum games in the playoff. The importance of the pen becomes on the closer, set-up guy, and 7th inning guy. You shorten your pen to 4 really good guys and with 3-4 really good starters, including one of the 3-4 best in the game, and your odds are strong. Much different story. You could have a mediocre bullpen because your secondary pieces are bad vs. a pen where the primary pieces are bad. Defense in the post-season also becomes more important due to fewer runs typically being scored in post-season (better pitching staffs push down run production, typically, not to mention fact that you don't face teams #5 starters and the early inning guys in the pen).

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:49 AM) Which is exactly why Beckham and Bonifacio were on the team to begin with. I presume Beck's stays around (not that he deserves it per say but he does) and that Bon will be the odd man out. Both have stunk.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:50 AM) i think i would disagree here. if the team shorten the rotation, i would think you will need kickarse pen to take that extra work, or the important workload. Shorten the rotation. You pull Danks out of the rotation and you have aces and extra off days, so you can pitch your top guys in your pen more while having your best starters who in theory can also go deeper. In the playoffs, depth in the pen and rotation becomes far less significant. In fact, depending on rest, you might even have Rodon working out of the pen at times.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) To me it would tell me that high velocity off of the bat = line drives. For that I'd rather look at LD%'s.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) you got a very good point. thanks Rose and Butler's issues, imo, will be solved with time. They both want to win and that is a good thing and while Butler is kind of like Kobe in some ways (from a work ethic perspective), he isn't near as hard headed and well, Rose, isn't Shaq in the sense that Shaq was so anti Kobe (i.e., totally lazy) that the two had just an impossible time dealing with each other. One could say Rose is soft but lazy or not hard working, no way.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:57 AM) butler by himself and another player in the back court, i can see it. but when you add Rose into that equation, Butler will not have the ball in his hands long enuf to make it happen. Rose needs the ball and i am not a fan of rose since his rookie yr. With Hoiberg's offense, Bulls are going to run, run, run. It should work wonders for Rose and Butler. Plus Bulls are a relatively selfless team when it comes to ball movement and passing (w/exception of Brooks). Rose was an awful passer but the reason I expect him to be better in 16, is I expect him to have much more comfort with his teammates and more importantly be far more adjusted to NBA speed. That takes a lot of time for a guy who missed what he missed. I expect Rose to be a much better point guard this year (and that doesn't take much cause he was awful last year). I also expect to see Rose's finishing percentage increase. Again, it takes time for him to adjust back to the closing speed, etc, and he clearly struggled finishing (he'd get the move and get the shot but the touch wasn't all the way there). Injuries could blow it all up, but if he is on the court, his finishing / touch and passing will be much improved which will work wonders for his own efficiency and performance as well as the teams performance.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:52 AM) My answer to why Butler might not become a mega-star is that the bolded is really tough from here. Legit all star last year, if he takes another step forward we're talking about an all-star starter, one of the top 10 players in the league. That's a tough step to take. I actually think if he plays roughly the same as last year, he would be cemented as a top 10-15 guy. I think if he takes another step forward, you are talking potential top 5-7 guy. Butler's game might not be sexy but he is a beast in the paint, a beast in transition, and a heck of a defender. People, first need to see that it isn't actually a fluke. And I do agree with you that it is a tough step to take, that said, their were times last year where I looked at Butler and what he did and thought to myself, and just said wow, this guy is an old school 2 that can play and is just mean down low. The key to him is going to be continued improvement in his shot and his aggressiveness. If he does that, he'll be even beastlier with his back to the basket.

Also, for those who didn't see it. Jimmy's agent had a few interesting quotes yesterday that would seem to dispell notion that any feud between Rose / Butler would be mega. I think this is basically a, they aren't best friends, but they absolutely respect each other and largely get along, however, they still encounter the ocassional frustration and are still learning to play with each other. Reality is it takes time, especially given that Butler was emerging into a more ball dominant player this year so any off-season practice and initial game plans had to be altered as well. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baske...0708-story.html

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 09:47 AM) I heard that, problem is I don't know what that means. How does "off the bat velocity" translate to production? He's got that inside out swing to take the ball to RF, does that lead to a higher off-the-bat velocity? See my response to Kalapse post. We are both clearly on the same page here and when I look at that list, I come to the conclusion that it kind of doesn't matter.

This is a good move. I like Saladino as a guy who can play multiple positions on our bench.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/?ls=iref:nba:gnav Look at the interview w/Swirsky. I don't get how Butler doesn't become a mega star (from a pure marketing perspective). If this guy can take another step forward basketball wise, their is no way he doesn't start getting mega pub and mega deals. He also just seems like a total leader.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 08:44 AM) Stone is mistaken, he's referring to a single instance, a double Avi hit off Soria on 6/26 with an exit velocity of 116.1 MPH which was the 6th highest in the AL this season on a single batted ball. In terms of average exit velocity he doesn't crack the top 50 in baseball. http://m.mlb.com/statcast/leaderboard#avg-hit-velo How valuable (or rather, how does it actually correlate to production) is exit velocity when a guy like Salty is near the top hitting under .200. I presume this would favor high power, strikeout hitting guys, who tend to have pretty good exit velocity in general and isn't necessarily a good indicator of good players. I see some good players on that list, but also a lot of guys in the top 50 who aren't what I would describe as good offensive players.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 05:57 AM) Anyone calling for Matt Davidson should never be able to complain about White Sox prospects anymore. And when he fails, should be suspended if they complain even once. He's hitting .230 and striking out at an incredible clip in his third go around at a level a 22 year old Carlos Sanchez had no problem with. I completely agree. Maybe something crazy happens but I think it is extremely unlikely that Davidson amounts to anything.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 06:20 AM) The unfortunate part of this team having been so bad this year is the fact that with this rotation we would be more than capable of winning in October. Which is why I've long said if this team were to get into the playoffs, you shorten the rotation, you shorten the bullpen, you might have a chance, but that would be dependent on at least fixing the defense and of course getting that 2nd wild card spot is still an absolute stretch. However, it is why Kenny and Hahn can't panic and can look at tweak team but key is having view on 2016 and 2017 while still potentially giving yourself a shot for this year as well.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) Melky is surging. If Avi can hit a little and they get something out of the infield other than Jose maybe they can turn it around. I will say this: to be 5 under at this point feels like a miracle and maybe things aren't quite as bad as we thought with 90 losses. Even if they win like 80 that's an improvement. The pythag isn't there by the pitching is pretty damn good. If the offense and defense could just not be league worst bad they could get to .500 IMO. I've been saying for a long time, this team isn't that far off and it isn't in this horrific shape that some posters here would want you to believe. The defense is a real problem and we need some good hitters to go with it. Will it be easy to fix (in the sense that it is a slam dunk), no, but it is totally workable and doable and I expect while we will see the club sell, we might also see us have a trade or two where we buy (using some of our prospects for young position players or getting in as a 3rd team to pick up something that fits our roster needs better). 3B and SS are two major needs in my mind and I'd also like to see us pick up a good defensive outfielder who can run and ideally hit a bit (that might mean using Garcia as bait (along with others to fill other needs) or moving LaRoche and freeing up some flexibility for Mekly / Garcia to DH a bit more. I still don't worry a lot about 2B because I've long been high on Micah and think that having him continue to develop and work some defensive kinks will be good for him to do now. Catcher is an area we could make an offensive improvement but defensively Flowers isn't horrid, so at least he has that going for him. To be frank, biggest defensive improvements would probably be warranted at 3B and corner outfield. I'd bet on Eaton and Ramirez trending closer to their career norms and thus you see natural positive defensive regression their. When it comes to Avi / Melky, if you play them in LH / DH (presuming you move LaRoche) and take care of 3B, that is replacing two positions where we have had awful defensive production that is not driven by small sample sizes. It could be Ramirez is horrible but his issues seem to be more mental then physical and even though you'd expect range limitations, you don't expect him to maintain this poor of play and I feel similarly with Eaton. I also have no problem if you find a CF that you prefer and move Eaton to LF either (either way, we need to upgrade defense without making offense any worse).

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 10, 2015 -> 07:35 AM) But then you have to deal with car salesmen every 3 years. No thanks. Highly recommend just working through the online / fleet managers. So much easier a process (and so not scummy). Only scummy part is when you meet with the finance people, who to be frank, are probably 10000% scummy then the car salesmen.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2015 -> 03:59 PM) The problem with white privilege is that it does not mean you or your family haven't worked hard to get where you are. Saying that it exists and asking people to acknowledge how it effects people willing to work equally hard from the same situations is part of the point of highlighting it. So hypothetically you emphasize with a particular person when having a conversation, oh I'm sorry, I understand I had a leg up and am compassionate for your situation and what you've worked through? How does that really help the impacted person? Does it make them feel better, does it erase past inequalities, does it do anything different? I suppose maybe the person at least feels they were acknowledged for their success and what they did to accomplish whatever it was they accomplished? I could tell you that if I told that to my father in-law, he'd be irate if I made that sort of comment (and he was one of the last flights out of Vietnam and lived on a marine base until eventually making it on his own (came over with nothing, not knowing if his family survived, made it over, etc, and then had to find ways to get other members of his family over, etc). All that said, he's incredibly proud of what he has been able to accomplish and what he was able to accomplish for his family and his children (one of which is obviously my wife) and would never want to hear about how he could have done so much more if he hadn't been born in a poor country and then had to deal with war, etc.