Chisoxfn

And you guys think the Sox are going to spend a few mill to keep Frederico? Don't you think we could potentially get more from Sale than Garcia and than have someone in our pen and than also move Sale to the pen later on in the season when Peavy comes back? Or am I off-base. I also don't pretend that Sale can just come in and kick ass as a starter but I like the idea of trying him as a starter. However, I think he's a much safer bet to succeed at a high level out of the pen.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:55 PM) Garcia is the 5th until Peavy's healthy. As much as I want Sale to start, I think that ship has sailed for next year. Garcia is a FA correct?

Crawford is getting at least 150 million. Beltre gets at least 70 million. Unbelievable how much of a bargain the Dunn deal looks like and I have a hard time calling a contract of Dunn's magnitude a bargain, haha. Hopefully he just comes in and hits and hits and hits Paulie at 13M would be a major bargain too over the short term compared to what these other guys are getting. It makes me think Paulie could potentially get some 5 year 15M per season offer himself from a team like the Dbacks or Orioles. Those extra couple years might make it hard to take a Sox offer of relatively similar money per annum but a few less seasons. I say that because it is highly unlikely that he'll ever re-enter free agency coming off this type of season again.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:53 PM) Chris Sale should be our closer, that way you can keep Matt where he's most valuable and go out and look for more help with out needing to have a guy that has closed before. Quite simple imo. If Sale closes, who starts?

QUOTE (quickman @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:52 PM) Well i dont know why they would want Dotel. I don't remember who it was on the board yesterday but they said relievers are a dime a dozen. I know thats not true but I will say I would trade viciedo for a decent one. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox spun Viciedo for some sort of young power arm that they felt could ultimately make it in the rotation or bullpen.

QUOTE (quickman @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:43 PM) I remmember being up 5-1 against the indians? in the ninth inning only to win 5-4 and leave the bases loaded. I am done with that stuff. I agree that was horrible. But if our options are Octavio Dotel, I have more confidence in Jenks. Not a knock on Dotel, he's a solid pitcher, but I think Jenks is better. I also fear the notion of a full bullpen by committee because they just don't seem to work (from a historical perspective). I know in theory they make a hell of a lot of sense but it appears that players like knowing what their role is and than adjusting to that role.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:43 PM) But he'll get more than that from a team thinking he can still close. I think the Sox would be fools to bring him back as a closer. And if that is the case, I wouldn't sign him. I'd even be ok with a little higher deal as long as the inflatable stats were incentive based. The question is, does Bobby want to stay in Chicago. If he does and wants to stay on a contender, than why not Chicago at a bit of a discount. If he wants to get paid, well, quite frankly I don't see anyone giving him a long term deal to close right now and if a team would, they are probably not that good of a club. So this might be Bobby's best shot at being on a contending team with a shot at closing. I would also be perfectly ok with Jenks/Thorty closing, however, I really have a hard time supporting a closer by committee because I really can't think of many times where that process has worked.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:41 PM) What the hell? I read this post and assumed it was chw42. Gage goin' saber? I never ever go saber and I'm not always a big proponent of the high bapip lines because I agree if people hit the ball harder or throw more meatballs that BAPIP will be higher. But I watched plenty of Jenks games and didn't think his "stuff" wasn't their. I think he is fat and out of shape and has a mental hurdle he needs to get over, but I still believe he has above average stuff and I think the stats tend to back that up to an extent. I also remember any meatball he threw getting hit pretty hard. Normally you get away with a decent chunk of your mistakes when you also have pretty solid stuff. I fully expect Jenks, if healthy, to put up at least average numbers as a closer and if that means the Sox pay 2M, than I think that would equate to the club having quite the bargain.

And in no way am I saying he'd be an elite closer, but given our other options I think having him closing (at least some of the time) and giving us an added dimension in the pen is better than the situation without him or Putz. I wouldn't pay him 5 or 6 million per year but he could actually be a pretty effective pitcher. Hell, I've long said if he just went back to throwing 2 pitches instead of dicking around he'd be back to his old self. Jenks just throws way too many different pitches for him to be able to throw em all effectively in a 1 inning appearance.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:37 PM) Lots of fastballs down the middle will give you a .370 BABIP alright. His linedrive rate didn't see a significant jump between 08 and 09 although there was a 2 year period where his line drive rate was quite low. His K/9 increased this past season and his ground ball rate increased as well. I'm not disagreeing that Jenks threw some meatballs, but I also believe his numbers were inflated because a higher percentage of his mistakes were taken advantage of than is the "norm". I.e., the luck aspect. And I'm not one to throw out these advanced stats too often, but for 2M a year, I think the Sox would be fools not to bring him back.

I just disagree with the notion that Jenks can't pitch. I agree he's been injury riddled and his lack of working out and being in decent shape has impacted him from being the pitcher he was a few years ago. However, last season Bobby was an incredibly unlucky pitcher as evidenced by the high BAPIP (.368). The few seasons prior to that he's still put up well above average ERA+'s (two years ago and elite level ERA+). In fact, 2010 was a season in which he posted one of his lowest FIP and Xfip of 2.59 and 2.62 of his career. Additionally, he's still striking out > a batter per inning.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:01 PM) It's a joke about how Iowa fans tend to think the only reason they lose is because the Iowa game is ALWAYS the biggest game on anyone's schedule. Coming from the Cyclone fan. The only one of those games that is a superbowl to the opposition is the ISU and Minnesota game's and to a lesser extent the Wiscy game. The Wiscy game is a huge game to Iowa fans as well. Minnesota would be a huge game too if they haven't sucked for a long time (still beat Iowa this year). And Northwestern owns Iowa. Nothing more I can say about that, but Iowa has been one of the more successful program in the country and conference over the last 9 or so years. I still believe Iowa is the best 5 loss team in the country but thats about the same as me saying at the end of the season that the Chargers are the best team in the NFL to not make the playoffs. The reality is the little things make a difference and Iowa has f***ing blown balls all season when it comes to doing the little things, like special teams.

Putz will be hard. Sox don't want to go long-term and he can get long-term deal. I think Jenks plus another guy come back, but that other guy might be someone we eventually trade for.

QUOTE (Cali @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:08 PM) Putz singing elsewhere, and the Sox signing Jenks on the cheap would be a horrible start for the 2011 'Pen. I disagree. Getting Jenks back at the right price isn't a bad thing. There are far worse things the Sox could do.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:07 PM) #mlb #whitesox #redsox The Chicago White Sox were runner-up in the Adrian Gonzalez derby, offering IF Gordon Beckham and prospects. - Nightangale Us including Beckham tells me that Hoyer is just in absolute love with what he got because as far as I'm concerned the Pads got pretty raped. It could turn out differently but the guys they traded for, outside of a 1st base prospect without elite power numbers (and that means he's a dime a dozen prospect as far as I'm concerned), are so long away from being major leaguers that the bust rate is just so high.

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 12:01 PM) I'd go.. Pierre Beckham Konerko Dunn Rios Quentin AJP Ramirez Morel I just love the 3-6. That's the "danger zone" right there. I like this one. Most of the other ones have too many righties in a row. I don't love Rios in the 5th spot because he'd be a double play machine but I think Paulie is better suited in the 3 spot. I could also make a case for Rios hitting 2nd with Beckham or Q in the 5 spot giving, but to start the season I think the Sox are going to make sure someone who command at least some respect hits behind Dunn to give him at least a little protection. Ideally, Quentin and Rios produce and you'd go: Pierre Rios Konerko Dunn Quentin That is a pretty damn solid top 5 if your guys are producing. You are a little light in OBP though in the top 2 spots, which is a major negative since we know that Dunn is a HR machine and to get the most bang for you buck with him we will want guys on base when he's up.

QUOTE (IamtheHBOMB @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 11:04 AM) Do you think the Clippers would draw more fans if they were based in Anaheim rather than LA? I don't think they'd notice a difference in the size of the fan base, however, I think it is more likely that you'd have a shot at having a larger fanbase which is fans of your team first and foremost. All of this said, a second team can become powerful once it wins. Fans are bandwagoners in general. There are exceptions to the rule but I think if you get a 2nd franchise in and it does what it takes and goes on a dominate run, people will switch allegiances, imo. The posters on Soxtalk might not, but a lot of fans might.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 09:22 AM) The federal accounting standards canard again? Ok, I'll drop it here, because this one isn't going to go anywhere. The government f***ed up massively when they put Arthur out of business. KPMG did far worse things but the government knows that you can't get rid of another one of the major accounting/consulting organizations because if you do there would be an utter monopoly since most major corporations have at least 2 and usually 3 of the big 4 doing some sort of work for them.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 10:35 AM) It's not like the offer the Padres accepted was earth shattering. Viciedo + Flowers + Escobar is probably the best we could put together right now. Red Sox deal beat that, but our deal would have been a steal too as far as I'm concerned, even if Adrian walked a year later.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 10:26 AM) on the plus side, i hope it just priced DET out of the bidding for Crawford. No way could Detroit get Crawford. They'd have to give him a ridiculous contract given the other clubs involved (Boston, Anaheim, New York).

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 10:24 AM) I still think he'd be hard to move especially if you're actually trying to get value back for him. Second, as you said we need his cf defense and we have nobody that could step in this season and take his spot. No denying the move would open up and create a position. If the Sox could than turn around and deal some talent for Rasmus it could make sense or if they have targeted any other young or veteran centerfielders. Or could the Sox spin Rios in a 3 way deal (or seperate trade) that involves the Sox getting Granderson, some cash, plus a prospect? Not sure if it would be worth it or not to be honest, but just something Kenny might consider.

I wonder if the White Sox would have any interest in George Sherill. Sherill was awful last year and I have no idea why, but he was pretty good for a few years and if Thorty becomes the closer the team will need another lefty. Lefties hit under .200 against him in his career.

Anaheim has wanted a team for a long long time and Orange County is a major marketplace with tons of major businesses. In general, Orange County people don't feel all that associated with Los Angeles. The Clippers should be playing at the pond but Sterling didn't want to because he lives in LA. Anaheim has also been trying for a while to get an NBA team and at various points in time have tried to bring in another football team.

Could the Sox opt to move Alex Rios in order to create payroll flexibility? Not sure what his value is, but last seasons performance probably means you could move him if the club wanted. The hard part is that he is the centerfielder the club has needed for an extended period of time, but the Sox have Jared Mitchell in the wings and there are some other potential options of players you could find and it might free-up the payroll needed to address the bullpen. Not necessarily saying I'd endorse it, but it might be something to consider. Most everything we read people suggest Buehrle/Danks/Floyd/Quentin if the club were trying to shed some payroll but Rios has to be possibility.

QUOTE (SoxPride56 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 10:11 AM) In that same article, he says it will be the teams highest ever...we had a $121 million payroll in 2008 according to Cot's If you factor in Sox payroll though, it was much less than that, IIRC.