Chisoxfn

This has to be the most active, non game, one day thread in site history.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:07 PM) Time to root for the Jays to tank and make Doc available. Other than that, who is there available that is worth pursuing? Bedard? When does King Felix hit FA? Lackey isn't getting traded. Haren? Webb over the offseason? Doc ain't a guy you trade for unless you are in full contend mode right now. He's older and just not going to be in his prime for that much longer. If you give up a ton of guys, given the clubs current make-up, its for someone that you'll have at there prime through the existence of there current contract or the new contract you offer (in the case you get a guy that is due for an extension, you obviously have to get him extended, imo).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:06 PM) I have difficulty buying that the D-Backs are going to go in to dumping mode after their run 2 octobers ago. Seriously, go look at their roster...don't they have to be better than this? Absolutely they should be better, unfortunately for them they aren't.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2009 -> 05:04 PM) The D-Backs extended Haren through 2012. I'd offer a similar package, don't know if the Dbacks would bite, but Haren is freaking legit and that contract is much better.

QUOTE (OilCan @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:16 PM) Someone commented way, WAY earlier on Roy Oswalt... He's 31 years old, going to be 32 in August. His current salary is $14 mil this year. His current contract situation: (quote from link http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=49841) Oswalt, who could have tested free agency after the 2007 season, will earn $13 million in each of the first two years of the contract. His salary moves up to $14 million in 2009, $15 million in 2010 and $16 million in 2011. He has a complete no-trade clause and a $2 million buyout of a $16 million club option for 2012. The scouting staff of the CWS can give you a more, unbiased opinion than I can. I just feel that he is starting the twi-light of his career, IMHO. Oswalt is too old to fit into the plans, imo. Haren or Brandon Webb would be better fits, but again, I say that from the Sox perspective and have gotten no indication that they'll be leaving the Dbacks.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:16 PM) So you start thinking of guys he's targeted in the past. Carl Crawford could be a possibility, even though Tampa has a surplus of pitching prospects. Crawford would be an excellent fit, but would the Rays sell? I don't know if we have as intriguing of a package to offer them since they have a stellar system and probably don't want to lose face after making a world series run. I'd f***ing love a guy like Ryan Zimmerman but that won't happen.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:13 PM) Did Dan Haren and/or Miguel Cabrera ever sign extensions? Haren would be a good fit. Miggy signed an extension and thoughts are the Tigers would have to unload it, but I don't think they do it while they are competing, not to mention, I dont' think they just make a deal with the Sox that easily. I think Miggy averages close to 20M a year and I still think given the amount of hitting prospects the Sox have that the only position spot I make a big name trade for is the OF, more specifically cf or a front line leadoff hitter. Otherwise I think it will be a frontline pitcher as that is the department we lack in.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:12 PM) That's the thing...a strong farm system for the Sox means more trades for established players. KW has, and always will be, that type of GM. I think it's great, especially with our history of developing players for the big leagues as poor as it is. I still think he will also target certain guys as the players he wants to keep and will be very reluctant to give up those guys. Beckham and Flowers are two guys specifically and Danks might fall in that mode simply due to the family connection and that fact that the older Bro is untouchable. And if we have chips and the ability to take on money, its a major plus. This also looks decent from the perspective that if we want to sell, I'd have to imagine there would be teams out there willing to give up something decent for Dye, etc. Maybe not a Poreda, but a Richards like prospect?

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:07 PM) Do you mean "make it" like Lance Broadway has made it, or "make it" referring to either Poreda or Richard pitching successfully and not embarrassing the ballclub, like Broadway? I mean, pitching successfully. Barring injuries, I am fairly confident that both of them will be quality relievers for some period of there career at the very least and that they are valuable chips.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) I'll stand by my statement that by the time this deal would have been up, one of Poreda/Richard/Hudson would put up better numbers in the AL than Peavy. To me, even if we traded all three of those guys, I could still list out 5 guys that would remain in the system with top 100 prospect value and another 5 guys with the potential to reach that group. And this is before we have a s***ton of selections. I'm so proud of what has gone on since the organization overhauled our system, namely bringing in Buddy Bell Current Top 100 group (or close to it): Flowers Beckham Danks Allen Viciedo Potential: Carter Leesman Omogrosso Shelby (might be stretching here) Upchurch (again, so raw its hard to say) Gilmore (raw, but I've heard multiple scouts freaking rave about this guy) Nathan Jones (hard to put him here cause he's got a low probability of making it, but stuff wise, WOW, WOW, WOW...that combo of FB/Curve sets him up to be a potential DOMINANT reliever) So while I might be overstating some things, thats still pretty impressive when you consider your excluding Hudson/Poreda/Richard from that list already and you already have Quentin/Ramirez/Fields/Getz at the major league level (not that Getz/Fields are in the same breath as Quentin/Ramirez (just given last years production).

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:02 PM) I'd be shocked if KW ever talks to the Padres about Peavy again. This is a pretty embarrassing public rejection from Peavy. Maybe for Peavy but I don't think it looks bad to the Sox. If I were them I'd spin it as saying we tried and got closer than the Yanks/Red Sox/Angels did (although they didn't have deals in place) and to me thats a f***ing compliment. A big compliment. I'm once again very proud of our organization. They went out of there f***ing way to put together a massive deal and we clearly are one of the big players (maybe not in the FA market) but on the trade front every season and history shows under this leadership group that ballsy things might just happen. Its why I've always backed KW, despite at times ripping into him for being too cocky at times (but that cockiness also makes him good).

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 04:00 PM) Yep, I'm actually excited by the effort KW made today. KW deserves huge kudos for the improvements we've made to our farm system. Let's hope he makes some quality veteran for prospects trades in the coming months, as that's been his biggest downfall as a GM. I also hope that Kenny and his people do the right job and invest heavily in this draft, especially since many teams will be on budget constraints which means a team with some extra cash to spend could really really benefit by getting a great crop of potential. And for whomever said the 4 guys the Sox sending have a 2% of suceeding I'd call BS. I would be stunned if at least 1 of Richard/poreda didn't make it, let alone whomever the other two guys were.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:57 PM) No, the Sox were willing to re-work the deal, but Peavy wasn't interested in that, so the Sox flat out rejected the 22 mil option. Sorry for the confusion. Ya, had they defered some money, things would have been plausible, so basically put the Sox were willing to pick up a pretty significant amount of cash and while they didn't want to pick up the option as is, were willing to make a pretty tremendous compromise. I wonder if this heats up again or if Kenny moves on. My guess is you have to move on but who knows. I'd say there is possibly a small window of time where he might reconsider things if the Pads push hard enough in the next 24 hr's. But it sounds like the family made there decision. I also think if the Sox were in first place, the decision would have been a lot easier. I highly doubt Peavy is going to get super excited over the talks that we have a great farm system and that he was probably more interested in what the Sox were going to do and I'm sure the Sox didn't want to divulge all the info of there plans to Peavy, but maybe they did (I know they did that with Hunter and Dye and it might have bit em in the butt).

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:55 PM) And if Hudson and Poreda keep up their great minor league numbers, then maybe we can make an even better trade in the offseason? Could you imagine how great it would have been to have 15-20 million available for free agents last offseason towards the in? However, it seems evident the Sox want superstar type players and that is where they will spend the money. No doubt we were interested in Abreu but didn't have the opening and no other guys were out there that truly intrigued the Sox. Although I'm still surprised they didn't dig on Hudson, but hey, Getz isn't the worse guy to gamble on. I expect the Sox to consider CF and the front of the rotation to be the two areas they target the most.

Sounds like Lance Broadway might have been another member of the deal. We won't know, but I do know he wouldn't have been able to be officially listed as a PTBNL. Below is a blurb from the Trib

For anyone that asks where Betemeit is...the two errors he made today are why he's never in the lineup. He's a f***ing butcher in the field.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) Good post..and it makes you wonder what was going on, especially with rumors that KW is open for business regarding unloading some veterans. It sounds like the Sox did in fact try to pick up the option, but they wanted to defer some money to allow that to happen. Pretty fair if you ask me.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) Right, let him keep on throwing partial no-hitters in AA and keep looking for another top of the rotation player or a young position guy. Its obvious that Richard and Poreda have some pretty good value. Next question, who are some of those 26-28 year old starters that might be out there as options?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:19 PM) So if you were a player you would much rather stay in the easier league where you KNOW you could continue to pitch the way you have instead of trying your hand at the better circuit and the uncertainty that it holds? Those are the same people that still work in the basement of a building making base salary plugging away at spreadsheets for 40 years. And he's still a scared b**** to me. The Cubs had zero ability to pick up his option, but he wanted to go there because the NL Central is terrible. He wants the easy road, and that to me is someone who is pussified. He also wanted to go to the Braves. The NL East isn't exactly a s*** division. Last I looked the Phils, Mets, and Braves contend all the time and the Marlins have a few world series over the past 15 years as well. Seriously, should we call a hitter a p**** for wanting to stay in the NL or AL because he's familiar with the pitchers? Peavy might just enjoy the NL style of baseball too. He has ever f***ing right to do what he wants to. No one would make fun of a pitcher for not going to Colorado, in fact we'd call the guy a dumbass to sign a deal to go pitch in Colorado and the only way the Rockies get guys is if there isn't much interest, they are acquired via trade, or if they overpay (see Mike Hampton)....same with the rangers (see Kevin Millwood). And while he prefers the NL, I think he had a preference of not pitching in our ballpark, which considering it is a total hitters paradise, I don't necessarily blame him.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:14 PM) Because he is scared to pitch in the AL, thus making him a p**** regardless of his location. He could have gone to Anaheim, but the AL made him have night terrors. That is his perogative. If I'm a 100M player, I'd like to stay in a league that I'm familiar with and pitch in the right park. Bottom line stats matter and when he becomes a FA a few years from now, that ERA and personal stats make a difference. I don't blame him one f***ing bit. I wish he would come to the Sox and I'd embrace him as being potentially the best pitcher in franchise history, but if he doesn't, I'm not going to spit on him and call him a little b****. Now if he didn't have a NTC and than b****ed, than its another story, but he got that NTC for a reason and it was to ensure if he was moved, he would be moving to a destination of his desire, just like if he was a FA, he could control going to a place him and his family wanted to go. And I do think he probably accepts a deal to the Angels if they put together the right package, but nothing ever got that far.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2009 -> 03:09 PM) There was obviously some thought on that point, and something else had to of come up to kill this deal. There is no way KW and JR went into it thinking they were going to get him cheap. Ya, I have to think they figured the option would come into play. Maybe they thought they could make concessions and re-work the contract, but regardless I find it hard to believe that the option really was the difference maker, especially if it got that far.

Why is Peavy a b****? Huh, the man signed a contract to stay with a club and to ensure that he put a no trade clause in place. The guy is one of the premiere picthers in the game, why shouldn't he have a say on where he plays. If he were a free agent, he'd fully have every say in the world so why should he, who signed what was a below market value deal at the time, not have the right to ensure that if the team he wanted to play for decided to trade him that he'd at least be able to dictate where he goes. Every player has preferences and Peavy is a f***ing all star, he has every right to accept or decline a trade, period, end of story. Buehrle signed a home town deal to and to ensure the club couldn't just trade him he put in a NTC and if the Sox wanted to trade Mark than its there job to accomadate him while getting value, not Buehrle's job to bend over and play Mr. Nice guy, he was Mr. Nice guy signing the discount deal. Look I want this to go through as much of the next guy but bottom line its Peavy's right and he earned that by his production, which earned him that clause in the contract. Even if there was only one team he wanted to play for, you know what, that is his f***ing right.

So what is the latest. I haven't been around for the last two hours or so.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 21, 2009 -> 11:00 AM) What I said awhile ago. You can forget about it. There is no way in hell JR approves a $22 mill contract. If they've gone this far, I don't know if its a deal breaker. Might just mean the Sox get some cash or give up a bit less in terms of prospects. Just my speculation, but given all of his past demands the Sox can't be shocked that he's asking for that and my guess is all of the comments and the stall tactics are pretty much him trying to gain leverage.

They better not be, I just unpinned everything to clean that s*** up.