GreenSox

That would be a much needed good outcome on the pitching front.

We hope; but Robert doesn't have a single homer outside of the DSL and Gonzalez is still in A ball himself. I guess Engel starts - but he's a bad hitter, but I guess there's not reason not to give him another year at this point.

I don't think he quite did that, but he was an above average regular for them for 10+ years. The post 58 transactions are probably the most egregious, but, as you said, they have a habit of doing that sort of thing. In the late 60s they trade for Tommy Davis and an aging Aparicio and the team hits the skids. Then it's Ron Santo and Ralph Garr. And then Bobby Bonds (for the highly productive Brian Downing; Dotson coming the Sox way as a thrown-in took some of the sting away).

I believe that they also traded Norm Cash around that time.

And Bobby Knoop, Syd O'Brien and Gary Janeski. And then Roland came in and took care of things......Made some real baseball trades like Ken Berry and Syd O'Brien for Tom Bradley and Rick Reichardt.

Ritchey and Shields is a righteous comparison. I'm just looking for 4 more wins.

Stick to your guns, Moncada. That will turn. IN the meantime, work on fouling off pitches you don't like.

Of course they should. But it would require an investment they don't want to make (if they did, they'd have the team). And yet, it would seem that, say, a second Az team would be a fairly modest investment.

Agree - don't want the team to lose 100.

No, they just have a manager and pitching coach that think Gomez can pitch. Of course, that begs the question...

The Royals got that return. Very questionable whether the White Sox would have. They couldn't move Frazier, who's the same player as Moustakas. They had to lump him with 2 good relievers, and it's debatable whether they got the return Moustakas alone got: Rutherford has a higher ceiling I suppose, but he's a corner player. Hahn worked his entire career under Williams, so it's no surprise that they share trade negotiation skills.. The similarities abound, including each giving up a legit prospect for a pitcher having a terrible year that should have been a pure salary dump. His secondary trades have, key to the Astros, Cubs and Brewers rebuilds, have come up snake-eyes.

In the sense of intentionally trying to lose, I don't think that the tank has ever been on. In the sense of being a bad team, it probably never left...as you said, just the ups and downs.

Maybe they'd have given him a year as they didn't know they were quite ready to win. But there's no way they'd keep him to manage a ready-to-win team. Also, unlike other "modern" front offices, Theo has hired strong managers in both places (others hire managers the FO can control).

They could have done that without rebuilding. In fact, they did. And it didn't work then and it won't now. This exactly what needs to be avoided.

It's back on because the Sox have just out-tanked 2 tankers in 2 home series, and in style, losing 35-10.

Because a)I don't think that Rodon brings an ace return and b)if the rebuild is way off track, then much has been squandered already, and the remaining assets should be preserved.

The tank has arisen.....

If it isn't, trading Rodon won't accelerate the rebuild, and will only make things worse.

Shields is a hole in the rotation. Stacking a rotation with guys like Shields helped to cause this mess and will perpetuate it if Sox management continues to think players like him are the answer. If the rebuild is on track, and it certainly should be, there is no reason they have to trade Rodon.

Yes it was; good question.

This is why you STOCKPILE pitching prospects; and not have 6 or 7 and say everything's peachy. This is why you don't fritter talent and draft choices away. Who's next man up?

Davidson is not fringe. Recognizing the risk that this year is a fluke (and not the start of a fine career) , I'd still rather go forward with him than extend Abreu (which I certainly wouldn't do) Engel's D has become close to top level....he needs to work on the bat, but it's getting better. Palka is fringe....HR is all he's got. He doesn't walk, which could take the edge off of the high Ks and low BA. He's fun though. What to do with Avi? Should have moved him in July - he was hitting the last week and his OPS was still above .800 then.

The Shields trade was a massive failure in talent evaluation and negotiation. Hopefully the evaluator/negotiator has improved his game. And while I suspect it's largely FO spin, if the Sox really need Shields around to help the young pitching, they need a new pitching coach.

Unfortunately this is correct. Everyone has a 9 and a 5 they pencil in, but have a few injuries or guys that don't develop and we'll be back to depending on Hahn's drafting (which we are dependent upon anyway if the winning is to last more than a few years). And Hahn still has to put a team together.

It's hard to believe with all of the pitching defalcations that they can't move Shields.