hogan873

QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) I keep seeing people saying Floyd is the trade chip, but I can't help thinking its Quintana. Q has been great for us this year, but if you were the Brewers which would make more sense to you. A guy getting paid $9m with one year left before free agency... Or a 23 year old (lefty) at league minimum they could control for the next 5 years. And for us... Q is in the same dangerous territory that Sale is reaching innings wise. One of the main reasons for us to get another starter is to cover innings Sale and Q may not be able to pitch. What good would it do us down the stretch if we give up a 200+ inning guy like Floyd and then still be forced to dip into the minors to get coverage for Sale/Q when they max out? My guess... Quintana and Beckham are being offered along with one or more minor leaguers. In my opinion, that would be overpaying. I'm sure the Brewers would love Qunitana, but he could be great for the Sox for quite a while and not cost much. Beckham, I'm ready to say he can go. Floyd and Beckham for Grienke and one more? Maybe.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:05 PM) If the Sox trade Floyd for Greinke, even if Greinke walks, that should be an upgrade this season, even if its only one or two extra wins, they probably are needed, and it frees up almost $10 million for next year for some kind of replacement. That part of the trade makes a lot of sense. Its what else that is the concern, because there has to be something else. Oh, yeah, a Floyd for Grienke deal is good for the Sox, rental or not. But you're right, there has to be something else involved.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) You seriously want to pay Greinke $23 million per season for 5 years? Why? I just don't see the Sox EVER paying that much for a pitcher. I'd rather see a deal for someone else (Johnson, Buehrle, etc.).

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:55 PM) Guys relax, Kenny is not an idiot. He is not going go make a move that will significantly effect the team. Viciedo, Alexi, Reed, all are too important THIS year. They have valuable rolls they play. I'm pretty confident if this gets done we will be parting with Beckham+Floyd+ a spect or two for Grienke+ Weeks+ K-Rod IMO. That is a blockbuster and adds to the team significantly for THIS year. That's what I see happening if this happens. That seems like robbery on the Sox's part. I agree that if this deal goes down, it's Floyd + a prospect for Grienke...at a minimum. I am afraid that the Sox may overpay. If there aren't talks right away of extending him (Grienke), the Sox may/will way overpay for a 2 month rental.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2012 -> 06:29 PM) If Beckham has any value at all, I'd trade him and begin the parade of journeymen second basemen. It's not a critical position. There's no way Beckham is going to be a star, so get something for him this winter and bring in Grudzelanik types (I realize he's retired) or Getz fill in types. Let somebody else try to get Beckham to use a smaller bat and become a singles, doubles hitter. I think Beckham's another Betancourt/Lillibridge type guy who thinks he's a power bat when he's not. If any other GM would be willing to take Beckham as part of a trade for a starter, I say go for it. I wouldn't give him up for nothing, but he certainly couldn't be the centerpiece of any deal. His defense is great, but I believe he's had ample time to develop into the hitter everyone thought he could be. If Beckham is traded (and I don't see that happening), plugging a Hudson/Lillibridge type guy would be okay. Again, that's only if trading Beckham brings back something of value.

Peavy has to set the tone tonight! And it would be nice if the offense shows up.

Alright! It's Friday, and I'm leaving for vacation in the morning. The beer shall flow tonight as I hopefully watch a White Sox winner. Speaking of, what's your beverage of choice, Joxer?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 20, 2012 -> 06:30 AM) Defense. If Youk doesn't get a hit, you have a 1-0 game and Youk & his tight hamstring are at 3rd or Hudson is. Obviously, Escobar's defense sucked on that throw, but I believe that was Robin's thinking, which I don't necessarily disagree with. Escobar certainly did not execute though. I would think, then, that Youk's hamstring might have been a little more than just tight. I hope I'm wrong. But, did anyone else feel that the team lacked something without Youk? I truly believe he makes other players better by just being the guy he is.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 06:39 PM) Most people despise me, but please believe me when I humbly, truthfully state this fact: "I am not a troll." Go SOX! I'm not sure people despise you, Greg. I would say a majority of folks on this board disagree with you at times (Ozzie), but for the most part your posts are not of the trolling variety. Your staunch defense of Ozzie is admirable.

I haven't seen a loss like last night in a while. Robin has done a great job with this team, but he made some really bad decisions last night. First, why didn't Youkilis pinch hit for Escobar? Lefty-righty s*** be damned, Youk was the much better option there. And why oh why did Thornton start that inning? If he wanted a lefty to face Crawford, let Quintana pitch to him. I could hear the diasappointment in Hawk's voice from the beginning of the inning. He knew it was a bad decision, too. Oh well. I hope that loss doesn't start a downward spiral going into Detroit. 2 of 3 is almost a must this weekend.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 02:08 PM) I respectfully disagree about development in August and September when the team is in a race. A starter, a reliever, and a platoon partner for LF, in that order. I agree with the first two, although they might be equally important depending on Danks. I admire your passion about platooning Viciedo, but you don't think that there might be other positions where you could argue the same point? DH, 2B, C...

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) Player development should never be a consideration in August and September when the team is in as close of a race as they are. In short, it's winning time and even a small upgrade in LF could win you a game and in a tight race that could be the difference. Player development should always be a consideration. I agree that wins are that much more important in August and September, but the Sox have been winning with Viciedo in LF. I honestly don't see any move the Sox could logically make that would make that much of an improvement in LF. To get a player that would make enough of a difference to consider benching/platooning Viciedo would cost too much.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) Why is there even a debate? Juan Pierre's wOBA is like 8 points higher than Viciedo's this year and this is the best Juan's hit since 2009. If Juan Pierre needs to hit .310 to be better than Viciedo hitting .250, then there shouldn't be a debate. Mostly because Pierre's not going to keep up the .310 pace (because he's just not that good of a hitter, especially at this point in his career) and Viciedo sure as hell isn't going to have a .323 wOBA all year long. Both don't walk, both make a lot of outs, both are below average in the outfield. But at least Viciedo gives you pop instead of the occasional double Pierre MIGHT provide you. Did I mention one of them is 23 and the other is in his mid-30s? Pretty much sums it up. I'm all for making the team better, but you're not going to see much of an improvement (if any) if you replace/platoon Juan Pierre for Viciedo. Realistically, if you want to improve LF and the hitter that occupies LF, you're not going to do that without giving up a lot more than you'd want to. Besides, as I've said before, you have to consider the development of Viciedo.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 12:30 PM) Rick Ankiel is theoretically available...was designed for assignment. I didn't know he still played.

QUOTE (Cali @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 01:10 PM) Adam Dunn is hilarious. Yeah, this had me laughing out loud: "The guy crushes food," said teammate Adam Dunn. "He eats more than anybody in the world, and he gets so excited when he gains two pounds. All I have to do is think about eating and I gain four pounds. Me and CC Sabathia are fat dudes who are trying to be skinny. Sale is a skinny dude who's trying to get fat."

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2012 -> 09:09 AM) Well yea, Pierre comes cheaply because he sucks And (here's the key point) he's not likely to maintain his pace. Especially considering he'd be platooned and only be playing 50%-60% of the time. Besides, you'd be sacrificing a TON of power.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 01:45 PM) Are we sure Marty isn't Juan Pierre, or his agent? No. Juan would admit that he's playing above where he should be right now and won't be able to sustain the pace. Besides, he's probably happy in Philly.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 12:39 PM) Pierre sucks at baseball. Still an upgrade over Viciedo against RH'ers. The reason this is still going on is because people are defending Viciedo instead of saying yeah, he struggles mightily against RH'ers at this point in his career. Can't say anything remotely bad about Viciedo. I don't think anyone has argued that Viciedo struggles against right-handers. We all know that. The argument is that you do not platoon a guy...you know what forget it. It's just not worth it anymore.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 10:15 AM) Project the Sox 2015 starting lineup and rotation from the players currently on their major league roster and in their system. You know you can't do that. So, the Sox will not make any trades or free agent signings between now and April, 2015? Come on.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:50 AM) It got on with a fill swing dink that died in front of Youkilis. It was a fluke hit that didn't go more than 75 feet. Crap, I feel like Greg or Marty now. I'm just saying that the leadoff guy getting on can lead to bad things. It doesn't matter how said individual gets on, they're on base. I would argue that Matt had to try for the double play, but he did that. The DB was not an option with Crawford running. I'm not going to argue the point anymore. Maybe Thornton wouldn't have faced Shoppach if the lead was only 1 or 2 runs. No matter who would have pitched to him, it would have been that much more important to get him out. It "didn't matter" because the Sox were up by 4. My point from the beginning was, let's not give Thornton a pass because the inning did not hurt us in the end. He's a veteran pitcher, and he made a mistake.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:22 AM) I acknowledged he made a mistake up and paid for it. I also pointed out that he really didn't have as bad of an outing as his line might indicate if you did not see the game. His performance was nothing to freak out over No, I saw the game, and his performance was nothing to freak out over. But what led to the two runs was the "dreaded lead off guy getting on." That sort of thing can hurt. And it did. Luckily it didn't hurt too bad.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:21 AM) Why do you defend Viciedo so adamantly? That's a good question considering he shouldn't need to be defended. Especially when the alternatives brought up have been Dan Johnson and Juan Pierre.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:03 AM) At this point in his career he is an offensive liability when there is a RH'er on the mound. Can that change over the course of time, sure You're the type of prospect person that I do not understand. Thank goodness Morel hurt his back or we'd be 2 games out and you guys would be clamoring about how "we're still in it" and "he hasn't cost us any games", "his development is important." In the White Sox current position, you play to win the game. Any edge you can get trumps player development. This franchise doesn't have enough World Series to fritter away this year's golden opportunity to of all things player development. You can't compare Morel's disastrous start of the season with Viciedo's efforts. There was no doubt that Morel wasn't cutting it, and this is not his first full season. Viciedo's contributions have been fine thus far, despite your insistence to look at NOTHING but his splits against right-hand pitchers. Morel was costing us outs (a lot of them, against all pitchers). I never had a good feeling when he came to bat. Viciedo gives the team a chance every time he's at the plate, and he's performing well in the field. Obviously this is a case of agreeing to disagree, but you don't throw away the future for the possibility of getting a few more hits off tight-hand pitchers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:08 AM) DADGUMIT! @Buccigross: Youkilis is 1st player to homer against Red Sox at Fenway after playing for Boston earlier in season since Ken Harrelson 1969 I'm surprised he didn't mention that. "You know, Stone Pony, after I was traded from the Carmines..."

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 08:50 AM) If the Sox lead hadn't been 4+ runs, Thornton probably doesn't stay in the game to face Shoppach. I suppose you're right. Sorry, just playing the role of angry Irish guy this morning.