Soxbadger

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:52 PM) Surely Blake Griffin has absolutely zero value then, can we all agree on that? Sad that you are now trying to change the goal posts because you didnt even know the rules. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:55 PM) Because if Thibs were a FA, you'd have a ton of teams bidding major money to land him. He'd feel the Bulls weren't loyal and very well might leave, which means the Bulls are looking to hire from anew. The dude has done a hell of a job and is one of the best basketball minds in the league and one of the best head coaches in the league. Probably the 2nd or 3rd best current coach in the NBA. Personally I think he's better then Doc, but thats just me. I guarantee the Lakers would have offered a fortune to Thibs if he was a FA a year ago when they instead hired Mike Brown. You are living in your own world when it comes to Thibs. Your evaluation doesn't compare to most in the games evaluation. Lets also add in the fact that the players have fully bought into him. Basketball expert after expert has commented on how well the Bulls play the game. Do you think that has nothing to do with how excellent our coach is? I'm sorry he didn't win a title in his 1st year as coach with a 22 year old point guard and largely a new team when he went up against an experienced team which included LBJ, Bosh, and Wade (3 of which are better then any other player on the Bulls not named Rose). Its not about winning a title, its about his in game coaching. Im sorry that I dont like Thibs, no one is really going to change my mind. Watching him coach is in my opinion one of the most frustrating things. /shrugs Maybe Im right, maybe Im wrong. But it never hurts to explore options.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:49 PM) To be frank, this is a ludicrous strategy. If that was the case, why weren't teams fouling Shaq the whole game consistently. In fact, I think there were a lot of statisticians who said the hack a shaq was a horrible mathematical/statistic approach (even though he was an awful foul shooter too). You do know Popovich (whom I consider one of the 2 best coaches) employed this strategy last season pretty successfully. It may be ludicrous, but when arguably the best coach in the NBA is doing in the playoffs, you have to at least recognize at as a strategy.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:45 PM) To prevent distractions. To show him you are committed to him being our guy. To ensure that he doesn't leave when he is a FA. Thibs is one of the best coaches in the league and the Bulls would be crazy not to keep him around. I believe that when you sign a contract there is no bad faith in not renegotiating it early. Thibs signed the agreement, the fact is, not many other teams wanted him as a Head Coach. So you would think he may have some loyalty to the Bulls, being the team who gave him the break in the first place. Why does the team always have to show faith to the Coach? Thibs signed an agreement, the Bulls are paying him. If he didnt like it, he shouldnt have signed in the first place. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:47 PM) As soon as Jesus is available to coach by simply rubbing his hands over Rose's knee, I'll agree with you that the Bulls need a new coach. Until then, I'm satisfied with one of the best coaches in the league. I just think the Bulls should keep their options open. This is a great season to really see what Thibs can do as a coach. Lets see what offense he can run without Rose. Many coaches have looked amazing because theyve had a MVP player.

The Bulls got rid of Doug Collins after he had some success for a no name Phil Jackson.

I like Deng, just the cap issues the Bulls will have, make it so he is expendable.

Haha I already figured that out. And it was using an extreme of 4 possessions per minute.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) Okay. So the team is in foul trouble early on. The early fouls don't even put Asik to the line, but the team gets in the bonus, and the team is going to get to the line a lot and the other team is going to have a hard time putting out a roster. There are 12 minutes in a quarter. 24 seconds per possession. Lets say 30 seconds per 2 (as we are fouling). That is 48 possessions per quarter, 24 being on defense. You would need 96 fouls to accomplish fouling Asik every time down the court. If you have a team of 10 players that is 60 fouls to use. Hence why Popovich, the smartest coach in the game, came up with the strategy. Its mathematically brilliant. My math was wrong, it cant be done every possession if they are averaging 4 possessions per minute. If they are averaging 2-3 possessions per minute it can be done.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) bahjahaha I assume this your admission you have no clue about the NBA or the rules. You simply stated something thats not true, Asik can be fouled without the ball. Popovich has done this in games, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1201339...on-and-analysis QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) If both are healthy, yes. Boozer is a better offensive player, Taj is a more effective defender. Player includes both offense and defense. In my opinion Taj is a better player than Boozer. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:26 PM) Because he'd get someone offering him a fortune if he finished up next year without a contract. He already is going to be asking for a fortune, there is also the chance that no one offers him more money than what the Bulls are currently offering. No way to tell his value unless its on the open market. QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:27 PM) Yesterday you said the Bulls need a new coach, and blamed Thibs for Derrick getting injured. And today you're hating on Thibs again. If you didn't outright say you want him fired, you certainly hinted at it very strongly. You are allowing Thibs absolutely NO ROOM for error considering it's his first year as a HC. a 1 year contract as you propose is a vote of no confidence in your coach. It would cripple his ability to lead a team. I never said I wanted him fired, because I never wanted him fired. Next year will be his 3rd year, I will be giving Thibs 3 years to prove himself. How is that no room for error?

Why would you extend Thibs early? Hes under contract, no real incentive.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) Boozer actually shot a higher %age last year than in the previous year, which isn't surprising since he was healthy. Boozer's PER last year was 19.7, Gibson was 16.9. Boozer shot 53% last year, Gibson 49%. Boozer was banged up like normal Boozer in that playoff series, so yes, Gibson was going to have chances to be effective. He's still not an incredible scoring option. Asik coming out and brining a screener to Rose isn't a problem if you can rotate the ball to another shooter. If Asik isn't ina position to shoot, someone has to cover him and he can pass the ball out...if you have another shooter. Yes, missed screens are a problem. If there was a stat for that, I'd love to see how the Bulls compare on m issed screens to other teams, but that's not a stat I know about. It seems like a whole lot of teams miss screens against the Bulls because they're pretty good at rotating around them. Do you think Boozer is better than Taj?

Im not saying the Bulls should fire him, I am saying that the Bulls need to keep all options open and if Thibs does not show a drastic improvement this year, I would not resign him. Dont believe I ever said fire him, I think you should let him coach out this year and see what happens. 3 years is a good amount of time to see if Thibs can improve. He could improve, I see no reason why he cant. I just am saying if he does not improve, I would not resign him next year.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:13 PM) Badger do you realize we were a newly formed team in year 1, with a 22 year old PG having his first break out season in the NBA, and a new head coach, and a team whose core is making their first ECF appearance, facing a team full of veterans of many playoff runs? We got beat. We were inexperienced. We didn't play well. You learn, you grow from it. You don't blow it up just because you lose. That's a panic move bro. Getting rid of Asik, Korver, Boozer, Deng is not blowing up the Bulls. Its reformulating the Bulls into a team that can win a Championship. Blowing up the Bulls would be trading Derrick Rose/Noah and Taj, and quite frankly I really dont see anyone arguing the Bulls should do that. Its not panic, I believe the Bulls should be on a 3 year plan. That is the exact opposite of panic, that is patience.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) Nothing that I see them doing in that video is "nonsense". That's the basis of their system, Rose driving and breaking down the defense., The problem there is that if no one else is making a shot, particularly Korver, the Heat can collapse on Rose and it winds up being 3-4 on 1 because they don't have any other fear of an outside shot. That is why Hamilton was supposed to be the key addition...a guy who can hit that mid-range jumper from the SG spot without sacrificing defense as was done with Brewer. If you had Hamilton, 2 bigs, Rose, and Korver/Deng in at once, you have the ability to kick out to either Hamilton or Deng, whoever is left open, or you have an empty path for Rose. Did you watch the video? It showed missed pick and rolls, missed movement, etc. Derrick Rose breaking down the defense is great, the problem is when you have Deng not even touching a man on a screen. When you have Asik not moving correctly towards the basket thats a problem. When you have Asik come out as the screener which brings an immediate double to Rose, thats a problem. If you watched the film, youll notice 1 thing he kept repeating, Taj Gibson. But did Thibs start Taj this year? No. Did Taj play more minutes than Boozer, no. Taj averaged 10 less minutes than Boozer in the regular season and 11 in the postseason. But dont worry, the Bulls have no issues with their coach.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 03:57 PM) It's things like this, why nobody would take your analysis seriously. You wouldn't be able to put asik on the line, because asik wouldn't have the ball in his hands...evvvvver You dont watch basketball then, You can foul away from the ball up until 2 minutes left. Watch the Spurs with Popovich. This is why no one should take you seriously, you dont watch NBA basketball.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 03:51 PM) A lot of inexperience between a 22 year old PG and a first year head coach and a newly assembled team. We didn't beat the Heat in the ECF -----> We are never going to beat the Heat and should blow it up I just don't agree with that logic Who said that? I believe what many Bulls fans are saying is: We didnt beat the Heat, therefore the Bulls should IMPROVE their roster. And yah there was inexperience, which is why after 2011 most people believed the Bulls would improve and that there was no need to drastically make changes. But in 2012 the Bulls did the same nonsense on offense, there was basically no improvement on that end in terms of play calling and running plays.

I read that completely out of context and thought it was Britney Spears.

Here is an interesting youtube about Bulls struggles against the heat in the 2011 playoffs: Its just not very good execution, but no one thinks the Bulls have coaching issues.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 02:42 PM) I know I have. I have walked everywhere downtown, the near west side, and into Greektown. Then Ive walked past you too. My building is across the street from the Al's Italian Beef on Jefferson/Adams.

Like I said there is a chance you strike gold, but the overwhelming numbers are that 2nd rounders do not become NBA starters.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 03:09 PM) And none of those guys are the elite defensive center/rebounder that Asik is. If Asik was on the Heat, wow, they'd dominate. He's a solid starter on the right team. Asik will never start on a NBA Championship team, I would bet a lot of money on that. The Heat would be hurt by Asik, you would be able to put him on the foul line every possession, which will score a lot less points than LBJ/Wade/Bosh. Watch what the Spurs did to a few teams, they would just foul them without the ball to make the 50% shooter go to the stripe every possession until I believe 2 minutes are remaining.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) 2nds aren't useless man, picks are gold in the NBA. We got an asset for Korver and we save money, good deal. 2nds are pretty useless. Saving money was what this was about. Whether its a good deal or not has nothing to do with a 2nd being generally useless. Sure there is a chance you strike gold, but very unlikely. Its not NFL where a 2nd is still basically starter level.

2nds are pretty useless, but maybe the Bulls will pick a guy like Jared Berggren who could do a lot of what Asik does, but also can shoot.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 02:44 PM) Check out this thread if you want a detailed break down of Asiks impact on the floor http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic....0&t=1191421 The problem with those stats is that there are no controls. If Asik is on the floor with Taj, Deng and other good defenders obviously the defense numbers will be higher. Add to that Asik plays many minutes against the 2nd team, so once again his defensive numbers should be inflated. Hes terrible on offense, and it adds to the Bulls struggles because they are playing 4 on 5, leaving a big to roam and double. A big reason why the bulls offense gets stagnant.

It doesnt matter, Steimsma is getting league minimum and was picked up from Europe. Asik is about to get paid a ton. Point being there are other bigs like Asik, you just gotta do your homework to find them.

Asik is better than Steimsma, but is he like $8mil better? That is the question.