Soxbadger

Oh I didnt know you had a dictionary that listed all of the forms of torture and that waterboarding was explicitly listed, care to cite your source, perhaps the Geneva Convention? Dont allow it in our courts, I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you talking Military Courts? Are you talking Criminal Courts? What law are you exactly applying here? I get that certain people adamantly are against waterboarding, in a historical context waterboarding is not what "torture" meant when any torture law was written. Over time we have expanded torture to include mental cruelty, but that is a complete gray area. Im glad that you think the world is all black and white though, because Im not sure a single part of your post was anything more than your opinion. Unless of course you can find me a legal definition that explicitly states waterboarding is torture. As for being used by other regimes, Id apply the exact same argument. I dont make up different rules for the US or for other countries. And we do know torture is effective, if you threaten to rip some ones fingers off they are more likely to talk than if you let them run in a field and have 5 star meals. Being in jail is a form of torture, its just not "cruel and unusual". So I disagree with your opinion, although unlike you, Ill let you be entitled to it, instead of saying your statements are "false" when there is no right or wrong answer.

I dont really think the results matter. The real issue is whether waterboarding is torture. We know that torture is effective, we just ban it because of our own moral beliefs. So if you believe waterboarding is torture, the ends dont justify the means. If you dont think its torture, than all this may show is that it is more effective than regular interrogation. Either way the question is, do you think waterboarding is torture.

Morel had the eye of the tiger.

I agree that the US govt has been treating them with kid gloves, but there is a reason for it. I am saying that there is no reason for the US to escalate the rhetoric.

The information is conflicting, so I dont know what to believe: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/0...en.raid/?hpt=T1 As for the choices, I pick a different choice, I assume their intelligence is light years behind ours, I assume that there are some in the govt who are indifferent, I assume that there were some who may have cooperated and I assume there are others who wanted to capture Bin Laden. But I think it will do nothing for the US, to throw accusations at Pakistan as a whole. Obviously we should have concerns about what is going on there, but I dont think baiting them with accusations will help our ability to get to the bottom of what is going on.

I didnt think it was manned by armed guards, or at least thats the intelligence I read. And while it does look suspicious to us as Westerners, you have to also think that there were thousands of Pakistani's who passed it every day and didnt even take notice of it either. I just have no real way of saying what I would have thought had I been Pakistani and living in that area. It would be one thing if there are reports he was actively training people in the courtyard or something, but by all accounts he basically stayed inside all of the time and I just see no real reason why the Pakistani govt would have done a complete search of the house absent their being a cause to do it. In retrospect its easy to put the pieces together.

Strange. The mission you can explain away. I just would caution against the rhetoric that Pakistan knew, because while they may not do anything to the US directly, they certainly could help some group do something very bad to the US.

This is to Strange Sox: I agree with the last part. I just think the US should tread lightly here because Pakistan has sizable population and a nuclear weapon. There were a lot of people who supported Osama in Pakistan, if you lay low and dont make noise, its hard for a govt to find you if they dont even know where to look. (okay let me direct it so it makes sense) To Jenks: That was to the post directly above mine. I was just saying that even if there was only 1 person helping Osama in the ISI as long as he was the right person, he could have deceived the govt pretty easily. Osama wasnt really doing anything in that compound, so if the report merely stated: "Extremely conservative muslim family" And they do nothing for the next 4-5 years, why are you going back?

Its happening tonight, not in the past sir.

Twins are going to get their ass torn like wite tonight!

Right but even if there was only 1 person in the Pakistana govt helping him, that 1 person knowing could have blown the entire operating. There have been "spies" that have infiltrated the US govt before. If a known murderer was next to West Point but never did anything suspicious, why would he draw any attention? Im pretty sure the US military doesnt go door to door and enter houses just because its close to a military academy.

I dont believe that there should a "fruit of the poisonous" tree rule when it comes to actually trying to capture a known terrorist. Its not like the waterboarding was what lead to the information that he was a criminal in the first place. That being said, no one will ever be sure what psychological techniques will work the best. You can argue that had they not been waterboarded they would never have given the information, that it was the fear of it happening again. You could argue that being waterboarded made them less likely to talk as once they realized they wouldnt die, they had nothing to fear. Hard to tell.

I can get over a loss of a game, but the loss of a high quality Italian sausage, that is just something that sticks with you. Going to a game without an Italian just isnt right. And when you search Bobak's sausage + White Sox, this thread appears. Hopefully White Sox fans will realize that Bobak's is the reason for our demise and demand the return of whatever Italian previously reigned king at The Cell. Every time I go to a game I am reminded of the inferior meat products I am about to consume.

I believe Steve meant seasons, not actually dates. This off-season looked promising. Now the only thing thats promising are the new ad campaigns being designed in J4Ls ass thread.

Thats what a grace period is...

Comedy gold

Because they already paid for those crappy adds and wont let us run ads using crayons and loosely put together ideas.

I havent been drinking. And how cant you like Uncle Jesse, Rebecca Donaldson was hot.

The double entendre is what makes astroglide the hilarious product that it is.

No way astroglide because it refers to space and entering the unknown. Astroglide forever.

BOOO THIS MAN BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo (Amazing scene)

Well put everyone's name on the scoreboard who shows! Why give us depressing statistics when you can scroll hilarious comments about some one being asked to prom.

Really? Its just a game that we lost. (That is just in reference to the last post about how Twins fans will always bring it up)

You sir have a future in the PR business.

Which is why Ill have awesome seats and the players are really going to hear my anger. Oh they will never forget when I tell them how bad Bobak's sausage is and why cant we return to the good days.