BobDylan

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 08:40 PM) So your suggestion is that we are going to sink boat loads of money keeping around aging pitching, some of them who pitched like crap last year just because of a perceived tiff with Ozzie. Mr 2005 Gload says hi. He was on the Ozzie hated list, yet seems to survive on this team for some reason. 3 pitchers, 2 of which pitched with decreased velocity. One of them publically showed up their team multiple times and pretty much said yeah I dont give max effort against teams that he doesnt term as good enough for his golden 86 mph effort. How about this for predictions, I see Freddy fastball gone, gone to the NL. I see bmac in the rotation ready to go. If we trade bmac and keep freddy fastball lobbing up 86 mph garbage in the heat of the summer, we might as well white flag it and rebuild if that is our strategy. You proved my point. Thanks. Anyone could see changes needed to be made in the rotation last year. They weren't. Ozzie gets and plays the players he wants, plain and simple. And just to edit one more time, unless KW can get somebody better than Carl Crawford for Freddy, I see Freddy back in the rotation. 86 MPH, yea, sure. He still somehow won 17 games with a pretty reasonable 4.53 ERA.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 08:02 PM) Or with guys who can pitch reasonably well. Like McCarthy. Ahh, the classic take one line out of context.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 11:56 AM) We have a thread on Carl Crawford but I really believe Gary Matthews Jr. deserves his own thread. Yes, he's going to get paid probably 20-24 mill over 3 years (maybe someone even gives him a 4 year deal) and yes this was by far his best season in his career. However, look at his stats from the prior season and you'd see that this is a guy whose made great strides and is developing into his prime. This is a guy that would fit in beautifully in the 2 spot on the Southside and would also play gold glove caliber defense in CF. Now I realize we have a lot of salary comitted and I'm not necessarily saying this is a signing I'd make, but I'd once again say we shouldn't acquire someone because we have money going to a ton of our pitchers or other guys. I stick to my guns that if I were in charge Crawford would be in Chicago (especially if all it took was McCarthy) and that Thome would be packing his bags elsewhere and we'd be freeing up salary that way (in addition to probably moving a starter for prospects). That would open up the flood-gates to make a push at Pierre/Matthews Jr/Figgins to join Crawford and team up to form one of the premiere 1-2 bunches in baseball (the type of 1-2 punch a manager like Ozzie would gush over). Its also the type of 1-2 punch that would be very affordable considering Crawford's contract. Yes, we'd lose Thome from our lineup and yes it would make our lineup very right handed dominante, but lets also remember that a right handed dominated lineup did quite the job in the 05 playoffs and this lineup would be superior to that one in every way, shape or form. The Thome deal would give the team some top top notch pitching prospects and payroll flexibility to make a move and obviously we'd have to find a DH. Well thats where a lefty bat fits in and that could even be a guy like Sweeney (if we want to stay cheap) who would obviously get tons of time in the OF as well. Or Mack could get some of that DH time or they could try and pick up that DH in the Thome deal. Now you have a lineup consisting of: Figgins or Sarge or Pierre Crawford Dye Konerko AJP Crede DH (Or if we get a better DH, you flop him with AJP) Iguchi Uribe The rotation would currently consist of our remaining 5 (as no starters have been dealt) and Thome salary has pretty much gone to Crawford and the other outfielder. So now you ask how does that really help the team? Well we now have Brian Anderson, top prospetcs from the Thome trade (in fact Figgins and a couple top prospects could probably be a fair deal w/LAA), and front of the rotation starters who we can deal. Possibly Josh Fields as well (depending on where the Sox stand with Crede). I'd like to think that with that the club would have the flexibility to move one of our starters for a major league ready young starter or we could also have the chips to go get a Jake Peavy or another young starter to enter into our rotation (if we deem it necessary). Basically we overhall the offense w/speed(it still has power), improve the defense, rebuild the farm system (through the Thome trade and potentially through a deal of a Garcia or someone else) and still throw out one of the best rotations in baseball. Yes, we'd have to re-sign some of these guys in 08 but we now know that the club has prospects to get other starters (or these guys could develop on there own) and quite frankly if Buehrle or Garcia walk the club has money thats freed up which they could than spend on finding another starter to come in (or money that we can add via trade and a prospect or two to get that starter). Basically put I don't worry that much about losing Garcia/Buehrle because Kenny would have all the chips in place to find new guys to enter that rotation when the time comes while still being a potentially dominant team in 07 (and in the future). In the end we could be rolling out a much more balanced lineup, a strong pitching staff (obviously Kenny would have to find a way to add a reliever), and a farm system in which Kenny can develop from or trade from. I really can't see McCarthy on the team next year. Every part of logic pointed towards putting him in the rotation last year. Why did he stay in the bullpen? Ozzie runs the team. There's an issue between them--be it his mentality or his stuff or that he just doesn't plain like him--but as much control KW has, Ozzie is no pony. He's here to do it his way and only his way. Given that, it's KW's job to go out and get the players that work for Ozzie. It starts with the guys at the top of the order.

If anyone is interested, Pitchfork didn't think so highly of this album. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/reco...ho_Endless_Wire

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 12:37 AM) Because we wouldn't have anywhere near as much money to work with this time around. We added about $20 mil in players each of those off-seasons. That simply would not be feasible this time around. Because of the money we have tied up in guys like Konerko, Thome, Contreras, Garland and Vazquez, we'd probably have to let at least two (more likely 3) of Buehrle, Garcia, Dye, Crede and Iguchi go in the near future, and you wouldn't have a whole lot of money to find replacements with. It'd also seriously hamper our chances of filling other holes. Where exactly is he going to shed money if he deals McCarthy? It's highly unlikely that he deals Konerko or Thome, and we wouldn't have the flexibility to deal a starter anymore. That means Dye or Crede would probably have to go, and then we'd have to be replacing at least one of Buehrle and Garcia the next year. That would seriously limit his options and probably result in weakening the team. Kenny is good, but he's no magician. It'd be difficult to retain our key players and fill any future holes with a good chunck of our payroll tied up in only a few players. How would I know? Kenny works in the front office, I don't. The entire point of my post was to point out that Kenny Williams will explore all the options we can't see. QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 12:41 AM) Now you can read Kenny's mind? I don't see how you can really say that given where that occurred. Yes, I know at one point he was after Vizquel and Clement at one point, but that feel through. No, but I can read his quotes. Where have you been? QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 12:41 AM) Unless Crawford pitches now too those are two entirely different markets. More teams need pitchers than leftfielders, and more teams are willing to overpay for pitchers as well. But teams aren't willing to overpay for one of the leagues best (and young) lead-off hitters? Let me ask you this...would you trade Brandon McCarthy for Ichiro? (Nobody else can answer this question)

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 12:23 AM) That was basically what happened, although on further analysis, my math was a little off. Lee made $8.5 mil in 2005. Pods made 700k, Iguchi made 2.35 mil, and El Duque made $3.5 mil. I can't find what AJ or Vizcaino made right now, but those salaries weren't a whole lot more than the remaining $2 mil difference between Lee and those other 3 players. All of those acquisitions came with or after the Lee trade. $10 mil can easily be 3 players that will play a major role on the team if you spend the money wisely. In any regard, many of those players KW acquired were the "b-plans".

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 12:11 AM) How exactly is he going to find a way to get around paying $70 mil to 5 guys with raises in the near future for Buehrle, Garcia, Dye, and Crede? We're not the Yankees, and KW is not a magician. You're also taking away a lot of his flexibility because he no longer has an extra starting pitcher to work with. If you trade B-Mac, you're going to end up making massive changes to this team, because they simply can't afford to keep everyone around... I'm not sure why you're worried about changes. The Sox made quite a few going into the 2005 season. I'd also say they made quite a few changes into the 2006 season. Aside from that, if a Brandon McCarthy for Carl Crawford deal is on the table, I HIGHLY doubt Kenny hasn't noticed the financial risk. That said, you don't think he has plans in order to weaken that financial blow? It's as if the thoughts around here are that the Sox will be in financial ruin if they make this trade. I don't know the ins and outs around the league and I don't know much about who's available, who wants what, etc, but I do know that Kenny Williams has gone against A LOT of the "knowledge" of this message board and has proved people wrong time and time again. If Williams makes a trade like this, there isn't much in his tenure here that says to me that he can't figure a way around the financial issue. He's earned my trust. That said, if he doesn't make this trade, I trust him there too.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 12:06 AM) We basically got Scott Podsednik, Luis Vizcaino, Tadahito Iguchi, A.J. Pierzynski, and Orlando Hernandez with the money we saved on Carlos Lee. That was pretty similar. This time it could be the difference between keeping one of Buehrle, Dye or Crede and letting them walk. I'd say that's a pretty major difference. If we had a $40 or $50 million dollar payroll, yes, you take that deal in a heartbeat. However, our payroll has gotten kind of bloated and we have a lot of money committed, with several other players up for new contracts over the next two years. Unless you are going to blow up the team in two years, you need to start mixing in some cheaper players, especially in the pitching staff. Don't be ridiculous. We also parted ways with Magglio Ordonez and Jose Valentin.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 11:22 PM) So let me get this straight, we have people that are for ditching bmac, and adding another bat to the lineup because offense wins championships, just ask the 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 whitesox teams that thumped through the year only to get owned after the allstar break because the less talented twins punched them in the mouth and let them bleed on the side. You don't have it straight at all. And has everyone (or a lot, at least)on this message board forgotten that we have perhaps the most aggressive GM in the league? KW has managed to do many "impossible" things with this White Sox team already. I'm sure he can figure a smart way around a little "money problem". Not many people here are willing enough to look at THE BIG PICTURE if McCarthy is traded but instead, oh s***, there goes the cheap guy...now we're f***ED. Many, MANY, MANY things can happen this off-season.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 10:40 PM) Obviously it's incredibly smart. That goes without quesiton. How many successful seasons were produced under Frank Thomas? A player whose best season will likely outshine anything Crawford does. Those past White Sox teams, aside from 93-94, were ultimately doomed due to ineffective pitching staffs. McCarthy holds more value to me personally because his presence is more crucial to our immediate success. If we're intent on continuing this 'window of opportunity,' it'd be essential to hold onto our pitching talent. Reinforcing again I don't care whether Crawford 'may' become a HOF, because ultimately, we'll not reaching another championship without solid starting pitchign. Which I believe McCarthy provides. Perhaps, but I'll trade a guy that has mid-rotation stuff for a future (perhaps) hall-of-famer.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 08:15 PM) 2006 should have been a lesson to everyone on here that no matter how much offense you get on a team, its the pitching that will ultimately decide your fate. In that case we should go get 5 new starters. The lesson you speak of I learned in 2005. In 2006 I learned a one-dimensional offense combined with a struggling pitching staff equals a team that can't get on a run. If the White Sox can get just TWO starters to have good seasons (the rest slightly better or even on par with last year), the added speed and pressure on the basepaths should be enough to make them a legitimate threat again. Down the stretch the pitching wasn't all that bad. It was the hitting that went totally dead. They couldn't grind out runs. Add a Carl Crawford in and Dye, Thome, Konerko just get better. But, obviously, some of the starters the Sox have now need to rebound from last year. I don't think it's out of the question that at least 2 of them will. QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 07:37 PM) I honestly don't care whether Crawford may be a future hall of famer. That is either really, really smart or really, really dumb. Flip a coin?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 06:03 PM) ???? There are probably only a few people that actually know the answer to that. It seems like the 1st or 2nd line of your posts provide enough discussion, sorry. I would like to set ourselves up for the future, while also staying competitive, and im sure Williams would agree. Glad your not GM. Our argument is over, sorry. I just can't talk with a guy that argues my points after reading only half my post and then rips me by saying, "Glad your not GM." Good day to you sir, now goodbye.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 05:56 PM) Alot. Once again, he will be taking a spot of 10 million dollar pitcher, possibly giving similar results, and you now have the cash to spend on other holes. So not only will McCarthy give you similar or better numbers than Garcia will/would put up, he is doing it for a 1/10th of the cost, and now other areas can be addressed where before they couldn't. So I would say Mac will play a significant role with this team going forward. It's probably why he wasn't dealt at the deadline in 06. If he wasn't going to start in 06, and not serve much of a purpose in 07 like you say, then why didnt Williams deal him??? Was the name Carl Crawford put on the table for McCarthy? And do you just find one sentence in my posts you can attack or read the entire post? Again, I'd rather take a ring now and deal with the rebuilding process later.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 05:48 PM) Your right. It's not hard to give 6 or 7 million to a Ted Lilly, Vicente Padilla, or Jeff Suppan type. Just give them the money. Someone will this off-season. However, we dont have to, because we have a guy in McCarthy that can at least put up similar, if not better numbers than those names mentioned above, but for a $400,000. For a team that has 99 million locked into 12 players right now, McCarthy is almost invaluable. How much purpose does McCarthy serve in 2007? He's going to be in the back end of the rotation and he's coming off of a terrible season (like many of the 2006 Sox pitchers). 2-3 years down the line it's likely that Contreras won't be here, Garcia won't be here and Vazquez won't be here. That's a hell of a lot of money to free up right there. Yes, the Sox have a lot of money tied up right now, but when the going gets tough, there's always a team out there that will take on a bad contract for a chance at the ring.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 03:02 PM) There is more of a chance of us finding young Of'ers and FA of'ers than finding a cheap, young, good starting pitcher. When you factor in the team's financial flexibility and the barren landscape of available FA pitchers, you dont trade BMAC. Yea, but seriously, how many hitters does this league have that are year in and year out outstanding lead-off hitters? Podsednik was invaluable to the team in the first half of 2005. Starting pitching is pretty damn valueable, but people around here make it seem like McCarthy is Rollie Fingers. He's a mid-rotation starter at best, and frankly, it's not that difficult to go out on the market and get a mid-rotation starter. Championship caliber teams come but they don't stay. Brandon McCarthy isn't going to make the difference (spare me the crap of how he'd have gotten the team into the post-season last year) but Carl Crawford can...especially for an offense that was pretty one dimensional down the stretch. I'm all for keeping McCarthy, but not at the expense of a 2nd championship in 3 years. Teams always have to rebuild somewhere down the line, might as well take the rings while you can get 'em.

No.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 30, 2006 -> 07:50 AM) How? What did you think? The internet is HUGE my friend. While I have to say I'm not a big The Who fan (though I do have a wide collection of their music for whatever reason), I have to say that this album isn't great, but it isn't bad. It's peacefully right in the middle. For them to come back after 20+ years and suddenly make an album is a difficult task. It's definately an enjoyable album. If you're a Who fan, I don't think you'll be disappointed. The only thing that bothers me is that 9 songs in, all the tracks get significantly shorter. It's not again until track 18 there is a song over 3 minutes.

I already have it.

QUOTE(Pauly8509CWS @ Oct 29, 2006 -> 11:40 AM) I like that song and it was excellent live. But I agree with your assessment of pop music. The late 90's blew. Woah, Woah, slow down there (unless you are talking ONLY about pop music, which I think you are). The late 90's feature: Pulp - Countdown Pulp - Hardcore Radiohead - OK Computer Godspeed You! Black Emperor - slow riot for new zero kanada Sigur Rós - Agaetis Byrjun Bob Dylan - Time Out Of Mind Andrew Bird's Bowl Of Fire - Oh! The Grandeur Beck - Mutations Beck - Odelay Belle and Sebastian - The Boy With The Arab Strap Belle and Sebastian - Tigermilk The Beta Band - The Three E.P.'s I'd keep going but there are too many to mention.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Oct 29, 2006 -> 04:29 PM) unfortunately I can't get my 40 minutes back that i wasted on Interpol's first album... So pardon my extreme generalizations about s***ty music. "it's automatic when I Talk with old friends The conversation turns to Girls we knew when their Hair was soft and long and the Beach was the place to go Suntanned bodies and Waves of sunshine the California girls and a Beautiful coastline Warmed up weather Let's get together and Do it again" Maybe you've just got s***ty taste. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/reco...e_Bright_Lights

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Oct 28, 2006 -> 09:13 AM) Just what I need.... ANOTHER microsoft product that is inferior to the apple predecessor FWIW, the songs that you "share" with friends only last 3 days and then they go away, according the website. Regardless, that's a HUGE step ahead of Apple (not to mention the wireless capabilities add an amazing amount of potential for future versions). I've also heard that the Microsoft music store will allow customers to purchase an unlimited amount of music for a flat monthly fee. Also, the Zune supports pretty much all music formats unlike the mere 3 the iPod does. (And also works with iTunes). The iPod could be in some deep trouble. QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Oct 28, 2006 -> 10:39 PM) what is the difference? Apple iPod Video Enhanced 5th Generation 30GB Media Player - White Apple iPod Video 5th Generation 30GB Media Player - White the second one is like 60 bucks cheaper. Any clues? One breaks as soon as you pull it out of the box, the other breaks a week later.

Got the answer yet SS2k5?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 28, 2006 -> 02:41 AM) That I don't see. I saw a Tigers team that just didn't want it enough, or just wasn't good enough to overcome adversity. The Cards got next to nothing from the best player in baseball. The Tigers pitching staff let their defense down repeatedly. But the Cardinals offense picked up Pujols. The Tigers never picked up their pitchers; every time they made a mistake, it turned into a disaster. The Cardinals just fought harder...they just played better. The St. Louis Cardinals earned a set of rings. End of story. I think the Cardinals just (and I know this isn't a word) out-experienced them. Detroit stubbed their toe every time they pulled the momentium to their side and the Cardinals made sure it hurt.

Anyone have a Zune?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 27, 2006 -> 03:57 PM) The one thing you don't want to do if you slip though is the flip-over that Granderson did. It took his eye off the ball, and held him on the ground for longer than he should have. If he fell straight down, he might have had a chance to get back up and get moving again, but that flip threw him all out of whack. When you suddenly slip do you know exactly how you are going to fall, or if you don't, do you know your position well enough (which you'd have to realize in close to 1 second) to adjust and fall the "proper" way? Give me a break.