GreatScott82

So it's pretty much down to the Dodgers, Yankees, Diamondbacks, Cubs and our beloved White Sox. At least these are the teams who have confirmed to make offers. If you had to rank the order 1-5 on the likelood destination for Tanaka, what would it be? Here is my order: 1) Yankees- Their international popularity alone gives them an edge IMO. 2) Dodgers- His wifey wants to live on the west coast. However, I don't think LA will go for broke on another SP after the record breaking deal for kershaw. Regardless of how much money they are throwing at players over the past 2 years, adding another SP may seem like a bit much, even for LA. 3) White Sox- Chicago is an attractive destination for many free agents, and the Sox have a plan of going for it all as early as 2015. At that point, each of the younger guys will have a year of seasoning. Not to mention a Sale-Tanaka 1-2 punch can be deadly for the next five years. 4) Cubs- Will they offer something really disgusting that even Tanaka can't say no to? Will Tanaka risk his sub 2.0 era for 14 losses and go along with their long term rebuilding plan? I just don't know.... 5) Diamondbacks- a competitive young team that is 'closer' to the west coast. It is lacking that larger city appeal, but may be good for him and his family to receive less attention in an area like Arizona.

B&B mentioned we are backing off? I'm kind of disappointed by this. But I am not surprised. I think everyone in baseball knows that he will be a Dodger or Yankee.

I'm thinking he will be an Angel or Dodger. This is just too far fetched.

QUOTE (staxx @ Jan 12, 2014 -> 08:42 AM) im a fan of frank, paulie, and abreu Ditto... This is a cool idea.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 11:54 PM) That he will not cost a draft pick drives his price UP, not down. There are going to be pitchers available next year that won't cost picks. He's getting 3 years at the absolute bare minimum. Frankly, the guy I am watching is Homer Bailey. He's a free agent set for a huge pay day after this year, but the Sox have loved him forever. Jocketty has said he's unsure if the Reds will re-sign him. Some of that is undoubtedly GM speak for "We don't need him, but if he brings his price down we'll sign him." Still, it doesn't build a good relationship, and Bailey could easily fetch $15-18 mill over a 5 year deal. There's absolutely no smoke, but I could see a Freddy Garcia situation here. Trade for the guy, sign him to, say, 4/$66 with a mutual option for the 5th year for $22 mill. This is a guy that IS still getting better. Frankly, I think theres a better chance of that happening than Garza. I put Bailey at like 0.04% chance of happening, while I put Garza at 0.001. I have always liked Homer Bailey. Soxtalk was crazy about him in 2009. What are his current #s? Next year does seem to be the year for FA pitching. I still would like us to bring in one more dude this year too. Hell, I would not be opposed to signing a veteran to a low cost one/two year deal with the hope that we can flip him for prospects if he succeeds in the first half. If this is a year to mature and progress as an organization, it will also be wise to obtain just a few more trading chips. Who do you think will be on the trading block come July? Alexei, Dunn, Beckham? Anyone else?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 09:39 PM) As was mentioned, Surkamp or Rienzo. They'll bring in other guys on minor league invites too. This is beside the point. The Sox have guys coming up and, of necessary, can go get a Garza later. Right now Garza probably takes them from 78-80 wins to 81-83. Tanaka can do way, way more than that. Moving forward, you expect Garza to decline slightly and by the end of the deal, he could easily be a 4 or 5. If they signed him for 1 or 2 years, I might be ok with it, but I'm not even sure about that. I just love the fact that he will not cost picks. If he will agree to a shorter deal than it will be even better. Heck if we're out of it early this year, and Garza is productive then another option is flipping him for prospects, similar to what the Cubs pulled off.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 05:59 PM) The Sox have plenty of talented pitchers that can be effective. The reason you sign Tanaka is because he can be really f***ing good. Garza has proven over the duration of his career that he is not that pitcher. If the season started tomorrow, who are your 4th and 5th starters? Johnson and....

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 05:46 PM) you dont just go from being a fly ball pitcher to a ground ball pitcher on the wrong side of 30 no matter how good Coop is. Tanaka won't cost draft picks either. Getting no one won't cost us draft picks either. Honestly I just dont think there's enough guarantee he outperforms even Erik Johnson enough to warrant what is certain to be a huge contract. He'd be Vazquez or Jackson v. 2.0 I may be in the minority, but I do believe he can be effective with us. If the Sox simply only want to run 20 year olds to the mound, then I can understand not paying Garza the big bucks. But to say he will suck for us because of the way he finished the season in Texas is irrational. I want Tanaka more than the next guy, but is it realistic? And since it is not likely realistic do you guys simply want give our prospects a chance to develop in spots 4 and 5? I can respect that but them Hahn BETTER go after Scherzer next winter for sure.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 05:25 PM) It really makes very little sense to bring up Garza. Tanaka is a different story. Young pitcher who could be next to Sale for years and drastically improve the team. Garza doesnt drastically improve the team and we know what he is. I know he is older, but he will also be $50 million cheaper, I think Garza and Coop can really work well together where he is more of a ground ball pitcher. He is only 30 and has won some big playoff games. 2009 ALCS MVP. We need a veteran right handed SP who can split up the lefties. Garza can eat innings and is a gamer. Also lastly, he will not cost us draft picks. Now IMO that is just as big enough reason to go after him if you ask me. All the other veteran starters FA's will cost picks.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) If they are then so is everyone here. The thought of him is exciting. However, Garza seems to fit in fine just as well. If they focus in on Garza right now while the entire league is going after Tanaka, we may just have a shot at getting him. What do you guys think? 4 year offer: 2014- $13 million 2015- $14 million 2016- $15 million 2017- $16 million

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 03:46 PM) Agree & I'm on that bandwagon too. Garza has a much lesser potential of hurting us, assuming it's 4 years or less. Of course the flip side is that whoever loses big on Tanaka - and the DBacks & Yankees seem to best fit this description IMO should he say, go to the Dodgers - is going to definitely want to sign the #2 guy out there. And IMO that's Garza, and 5 years or more, if that's on the table, I'm not touching that. I think Garza can be had at 4 years for sure.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) Cubs traded him. Traded players (mid-season) don't bring back picks anymore under the new CBA because you can't offer the QO. ^^^ this. Garza will only cost cash and not picks. A perfect White Sox scenario if you ask me.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 03:04 PM) Personally, I think we sign this guy. That would be epic and shocking. Can potentially give us the best rotation for years to come. Sale and Tanaka as a 1-2 punch? That is drool worthy.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 01:14 PM) I'm not upset...I actually think Garza makes more sense for the Sox. With that said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if in 3 years, the Sox are trying to trade for Tanaka if he disappoints the team he signs with (ie: Contreras) I think Garza makes a ton of sense. He will not cost the organization any draft picks and that seems to be the only way they will sign a FA this winter. I know he is not as young as Tanaka but he will be MUCH MUCH cheaper. I hope Hahn explores this option as well. Maybe a 3 year deal? I know this team will not be playoff contenders this year, but I believe in 2015 they will be right there.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 07:49 AM) I just cannot see how the Yankees could spend the kind of money they already have this offseason and then let this guy get past them unless they don't believe in him. Yeah. This dude has the Yankees written all over him. If the Sox shock the world and sign him up, then this will be the most productive long term and short term off seasons of all-time!

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 10, 2014 -> 06:00 AM) The Sox have the payroll flexibility. He fits Hahn's very sound strategy of not signing aging free agents and paying them enormous sums for past performance. He is a potential right handed ace, lacking on the unbalanced staff, dominated by southpaws. He will not cost a draft pick The only question for me is; How good is he? A bonus is that the Sox could then bypass the top pitching prospects in this year's draft, and perhaps have a shot at the best position player with their number 3 pick. Rodon and Hoffman may go one and two, leaving both Jackson and Davidson available. One is a catcher and the other a potential impact left handed bat. I know many say you don't draft to fill needs, but those two guys are very intriguing, and just happen to fit. If the Sox get Tanaka, it will open the door to soo many other possibilities. Even if the Sox sign him though, which is highly unlikely, I still want them to draft pitching in the 1st round. This is by far one of most pitcher friendly drafts in years, and as KW has always said in the past is - " you can never have enough pitching depth". I like Trea Turner and Alex Jackson, but I believe it will take them longer to get to the big leagues than a SP coming from college. The Sox need to find an upgrade at the Catcher position at some point this winter OR midseason.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 10:46 AM) I never said he was good offensively. You are barking up the wrong tree. I said he was acceptable offensively. There is a a difference as large as the River Styx between the two of them. RBIs is also a poor way to judge players too, BTW. Use OBP, use SLG, use BB%, K%, whatever. RBIs show absolutely nothing about how good a player is offensively. Batting average can be an incredibly misguided and misinterpreted statistic, and so often it is not representative of the player's true skill level and value offensively. Of course you need to give something, but when you may already have that something on your roster, why would you give up a 25 year old stud starter? Your pitching staff is also shot if you deal Quintana, because, as I said, you are starting Rienzo and Surkamp. Arroyo is looking for, at minimum, $12 million a year and he could certainly put up an ERA north of 5 as he's an absolutely terrible fit for USCF. On top of that, is 36 years old. You really want to replace a 25 year old starter with a 36 year old starter? Why? They may as well have given AJ Pierzynski a 3 year deal given those circumstances. Thankfully, they aren't going to bring in Arroyo because of the circumstances above. In that situation, you'd be better off with Rienzo and Surkamp. There is not going to be a "slight" decrease in production. You are replacing a very good, young starting pitcher who is getting better with a mediocre to bad starting pitcher who you hope will get better. Beyond that, I'm simply not sold on Castro's developments yet. I'm sure it will be fine, but they just had Jose Altuve go from .290/.340/.399 to .283/.316/.363. What is stopping Castro from seeing a huge drop in batting average and OBP? His walk rate was good, but his K rate was rather mediocre to bad last year. He could easily go from .276/.350/.485 back down to say .250/.325/.425. Then he's a solid catcher. And, if he gets unlucky on balls in play (or if his BABIP's talent level is closer to .310 than the .351 he put up last year), he could be down to .230/.300/.400 with some bad luck. At the end of the day, Quintana's done it for 2 years, Castro for 1. The Sox have more fish to fry (though not necessarily bigger), so putting all their eggs in this basket is not responsible at this point in time, especially when they have other alternatives at said position and that they will be rather uncompetitive without a great deal of luck. The value Castro adds this year is maybe taking the team from 78 wins to 80 wins, or maybe not, but he doesn't win you a division, so there's no need to invest valuable resources into something like that at this point in time. Maybe next year. I'm done with this discussion. Yeah me too. I just want more production at the C position that's all. I know this organization can do much better than Flowers or Phegley. Hopefully we can upgrade this position without dealing Q. Perhaps another 3 way deal of sorts? I'm sure Hahn is exploring every avenue at this point. At least we can all hope so. ::Sigh:: On to the next discussion.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) Batting average means so f'ing little that the fact that you are using just that to compare them makes it laughable. No, he was not good with the bat, but for the better part of his career, he was perfectly acceptable. He hit for a great deal of power in the middle part of his career and had a respectable walk rate of 7.9%. Beyond that, you are, for whatever reason, ignoring the fact that Karkovice was a fantastic defender. Why? That has just as much to do with a player's game than anything. Flowers and Phegley were not good in this department. Just using basic, raw statistics alone, Karkovice threw out 53.8% of base runners in 1993, and his career CS% percentage was 41.2%. That is an absolutely insane number. For comparison's sake, Yadier Molina is considered to have the best catcher's arm in the game, and he's at 44.5% for his career, showing how similar Karkovice is in that department alone. His defensive runs above replacement was 109.3, and that's not taking into context pitch framing or balls blocked out of his zone. Underselling what Kark did behind the plate is a big time mistake First off thanks for cussing.. So classy. Secondly, I mentioned that he was a solid defender. Apparently you missed that part when you went out of your way to defend Ron Karkovice. Lol. I am not discounting defense but we are talking improving the offense for this 99 loss team. Agree to disagree but Karkovice was not good offensively. Since you think measuring a players offensive ability is "laughable" by looking at his batting average, then fine let's look at his awesome OBP of .289 and his laughable 18 RBIs per season average. Let me ask you a question. Are you a member of the Karkovice family? Despite his random streaks of mediocrity, the dude was not good with the stick. And as I mentioned before, you need to give something to get something. Losing Q would hurt, but your getting an all star catcher in return. That's right, it can eliminate this Karkovice vs Flowers/Phegley debate for good. I agree that the Sox will not spend 15 million per year on a SP, but a guy like Arroyo shouldn't cost that much. Would he match Qs production? Likely not, but he will give you a serviceable veteran arm who can separate Sale and Danks in the rotation and will likely cost around 7 to 10 million per year. I think the Sox would sacrifice that much for a SP.. It's not like they are strapped for cash at this point. There are options out there that won't cost you an arm and a leg. Will the numbers be similar to Q? they might be, but even if there is a slight decrease in production in the rotation, you now have an all-star backstop. So before you loose your cool and cuss again, try and understand the impact Castro can make offensively for this lineup.

Ron Karkovice had a career batting average of .221. Yes that is comparable to the Flowers and Phegleys. If you think comparing these two players to Karkovice is an insult, how on Earth do you think they will improve in year two?? Yikes. Karkovice may have been a great battery mate and solid defender, but his bat was brutal- just like Flowers and Phegley The Sox can always address the FA market for an additional SP if they choose to trade Q. There are options still at this point in the offseason.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 12:01 AM) You'd part with these guys for Castro? Seriously. My point is the sox don't have the depth in prospects to acquire a guy like Castro now. Not after trading Reed and Santiago, as the sox expect the young guys to fill in. The farm system is improving but not at the pace to trade away key pieces for a potential 2 year guy in Castro. Hahn stated early on in the off season that he would likely deal from the team's strength to acquire better offensive position players. As of today, our catchers are pretty bad. For those who think Nieto will come in and save the day, your wrong. The way I see it, both Flowers and Phegley can be compared to Karkovice. They are serviceable backups but they have no business starting on an MLB team on most days. Jason Castro is one of the most up and coming talented catchers in the game, not to mention a left handed hitter with some pop. Why wouldn't we go after him? I understand your point about losing our young arms in Reed and Santiago but you do have to give in order to get and this team STILL needs offensive help at the C position. Trading Q will not set back the growing farm. Will it set back our rotation? Maybe. Not unless they sign a free agent pitcher and we see Johnny Danks return to form. This move can also open up a spot for guys like Reinzo, Paulino and Johnson. One thing I am confident about in the white sox organization, is they do know how to develop young pitching.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 09:27 AM) I'm pretty sure that Jason Castro is worth more than Quintana. There's certainly no way we'd ever get both him and Altuve for Quintana and Sanchez. I'd say QUintana and Sanchez sounds about right for Castro alone. I agree. They are selling high on Castro just like we are selling high on Q right now. They get a front end of the rotation starter for years to come. We get an allstar catcher for years to come. This deals makes too much sense if you ask me. He'll, I'd offer to throw in Dunn and $7 million as well, but now I'm getting silly. Isn't Dunn from Houston?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 08:52 AM) This is why trading draft picks would be awesome. The Sox could offer their second rounder which is more like a supplemental first plus that signing slot and then add in some prospects & not have to deal Q. Castro is going to be very expensive. I might be willing to pay the price for 2 main reasons 1) he's a catcher, 2) Hahn would be in a great position to attempt to buy out his arb years. If the Sox could get this guy say for 7 years at what would amount to an average annual salary of say $5M per or so then you're talking about not just a very good player who fits with what you are doing but potentially incredible payroll flexibility as well. I mean, if this guy were a FA right now what would he command? We could potentially buy out his arb years at well under 1/2 of what that figure would probably be. Good post. There are multiple reasons to want go after and acquire Castro. He is already an allstar, will be super cheap for awhile, is only 26 years old and would give are bad offense another new and improved bat to balance the lineup out. If I have to spend another year watching Flowers or Phegley attempt to hit mlb pitching, I may poke my eyes out. Believe me, nobody is a bigger Q fan then me. Back in 2012 I was on this site raving about his skills when most of the posters on here thought his positive performance was just a "fluke". Listen, it would hurt to lose him, but one thing this organization does well is produce quality young pitching. With this years draft being pitching deep, and with guys like Johnson and Reinzo waiting in the wings, I feel we can afford to sacrifice one more arm for a tremendous bat. Another option for the rotation can be tapping into the FA market. You still have veterans like Santana, Garza and Arroyo available. Next year, Scherzer is unrestricted as well.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 5, 2014 -> 10:04 PM) I didn't realize Castro is 26 already. That's not old and he's entering his prime but maybe Quintana should be used for a younger player. We shouldn't be trading younger players for older players even though 26 isn't that old. With the current hole we have at the catcher position, I would most certainly deal Q for Castro..

QUOTE (Tannerfan @ Dec 31, 2013 -> 11:55 AM) Who said anything about winning the World Series? I'm talking about having a versatile bench with players that can play multiple positions. Not to mention a left handed bat in Gillaspie. Don't count out the fact that Hahn is still trying to trade Dunn. This would make Konerko the full time DH and the team can have both Gillespie AND Keppinger on the bench. I'm assuming Davidson is your starting 3b this season.

QUOTE (professa @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 12:29 AM) I think we're pretty much done except for trading away one of keppinger/de aza/viciedo. I think we stick with flowers phegley. Flowers, if he plays to his potential, can produce to at least a .235/.325/425 with 20 HRs and 60 RBI. I say give the kid another year see if he can do it. I say we trade Kepp and send cash for a low level spec. Gives us 1. Eaton Bench Rotation Pen 2. Ramirez 1. De Aza 1.Sale CL: Nate Jones 3. Garcia 2. Garcia 2.Quintana SU: Lindstrom 4. Abreu 3. Gillaspie 3.Johnson Su: Belasario 5. Dunn 4.Phegley/the other guy we picked up 4.Danks MR: Downs 6. Viciedo 5.Rienzo/Paulino MR: Daniel Webb 7. Davidson MR: Petricka 8. Flowers 9. Beckham Can go with another bench guy or reliever...our bench does look pretty versatile little pop, speed, and some decent gloves. Don't forget about Konerko taking up a bench spot. Hahn is not finished. He knows he needs to improve the catcher position. I'm tired of fans using the injury excuse for Flowers. The dude is bad. He was okay in a backup role, but he has had more than enough MLB experience to prove himself. My bet is that Hahn is going for a young guy with better plate discipline. The guy I want is Grandal. What will it take to get him??