GreatScott82

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 09:20 AM) Always be willing to eat salary if it gets you better talent in return. You aren't adding to your payroll at all in 2013 and probably not very much in 2014 so there's not much point in saving money for those two years. Now if somebody is interested in Danks or Ramirez then I'm a little more hesitant to eat any of their money in 2015-16. Being willing to eat salary also brings more teams into the bidding. Agreed. Good post.

Luckily Rios will likely be the best defensive outfielder on the block this year. That will keep his value somewhat reasonable. However, if we want a cant miss prospect in return, he needs to start hitting the crap out of the ball very soon. I would hate to waiste this chance to rid of that salary/ get a solid return. If Hahn continues to sit on his hands, we may keep him after all and that would be what I call a waisted golden opportunity to move foward.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 12:33 PM) Rockies: The NL West surprises extend to a Rockies club that has been better than advertised, but still needs some help. Going into the season, the Rockies felt that strong returns from Jhoulys Chacin and Jorge De La Rosa could vault them into contention, because they didn't expect anybody to up and run away with the West. Sure enough, that's precisely how it's played out. How will the Trade Deadline play out? That's up to Dan O'Dowd and Bill Geivett to decide, but the Rockies have been actively kicking the tires to address their usual need -- pitching -- and have been linked to the likes of Yovani Gallardo, John Danks and Matt Garza. They might also seek to upgrade their bullpen, perhaps making a play for Boulder, Colo., native Jesse Crain. Of course, those pursuits are contingent upon continued contention, and the Rockies have been living largely off the fumes of their strong start, having posted losing records in May and June. But the NL West is so wide open that it's tempting for a team in the Rockies' position to take the bait and go for it. mlb.com (castrovince) It is very interesting to see John Danks name thrown into discussions... I guess it makes sense for a team looking for pitching help now and long term, but he sure is owed a bunch of money! I'm pretty sure Crain's name will be mentioned every day from now until the deadline. I will be intrigued to see what our return for him will be and which team he ends up going to. It seems as if talks between GMs are starting to really heat up.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 09:26 AM) No it doesn't. He's a flawed player, surely, but he's a valuable player. If teams can overlook his flaws and just look primarily at his power numbers, lets trade him to that team Asap!

I also think the Sox need to address the free agent market for at least one outfielder. The OF prospects down in the farm are progressing much slower than anticipated. I would hate for them to rush Thompson up as well. I would give him and the other guys (Hawkins, Walker, Mitchell) more time to prove themselves. Hopefully if Hahn plays his cards right this summer, he can acquire an OF prospect who is much closer to sniffing the MLB level than our prospects. Assuming Viciedo does go over to 1b next year, I think our outfield will be pieced together like this: Left Field- Jordan Danks will start the year here, however, Thompson will work his way up to eventually take over this spot. Center Field- The White Sox will use some of their freed up cash on a free agent. I can definitely see them bringing in Chicago native Granderson. He seems like a real classy player and can help the young kids develop. Other names include Ellsbury, Crisp and Davis. Right Field- OF prospect via this year's trade deadline. Things will likely look a whole bunch different in 2014 and that is okay with me.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 4, 2013 -> 12:33 PM) I don't care guys...40 homers and 100+ RBI is still solid production, regardless of what he hits or how many times he k's... Those numbers are great. Unfortunately his poor strike out rate (strikes out once in every three at bats), not impressive .303 OBP and terrible batting average .207 cancels out any type of production he brings to the table. If another team can overlook his flaws and focuses primarily on his RBI and Home run production, than make that deal ASAP!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 4, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) Obviously it's all relative to the package you're getting...but I'm not moving him just to save $6-8 million. He may be worth well more as a trade piece next year in the last year of his deal. I agree. We would get next to nothing if we traded him this year. Not to mention, would likely have to eat most of his contract. The only thing we can hope for is if he gets off to a similar start next year as he did in 2012 before he started tanking again.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 4, 2013 -> 09:56 AM) I am sick of hearing about how teams would not want Dunn because of a poor batting average. If you are trading for the man because of his batting average then you are an idiot. Any team trading for Dunn would do it looking for power and that's what he'd be paid to do. Stick Dunn in the lineup in Texas, Pittsburgh, or somewhere else and they would have an asset. He wouldn't be depended on to be the best player on the team in those places. Dunn as an extra guy is a scary proposition. The guy is going to hit 40+ homers, walks 100 times, and drive in more than 100 runs. But people on this site specifically reference his strikeouts and his batting average instead. And I am sick of fans defending him based on his potential for 40+ homers. He has a .190 average and strikes out waaayyyyyy too much. How can you defend that? He isn't a real ball player. We also had a guy at DH who hit 40 home runs a year but also had a +.300 average and hit 80+ RBIs consistently. You may also know him as the Big Hurt. At least Jim Thome hit in the .250s while we had him. That is much more respectable than hitting below .200. Would Dunn be an asset to another team in the league? Perhaps as a late inning pinch hitter for a team looking for late inning power... but is that worth $12 million? I am tired of the Adam Dunn experiment and will be more than happy to argue numbers with anyone who thinks he is worth the money. Because simply, he is not. He has hurt this team more than helped it over the past 3 seasons and that my friend is enough of a reason to want to trade him.

I agree. I dont think the Sox will have to throw money into a Rios or Peavy deal. However, they definitely would have to for Dunn. You just dont see teams lining up to pay $12 million for a guy hitting .190. Maybe next year a desperate team will snag him at the deadline. At least we can hope. ..

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) Well said! Hahn is not new to the organization. Who knows what his philosophy is. There is nothing wrong with this rant. They didn't hire an outside and he was also the highest paid asst. GM in baseball because J.R. didn't want to lose him. It's his time to shine. Thank you, sir! And you are 100% correct buddy, it is his time to shine or not shine. This next month will say a lot about his plan and direction for this team. The trading deadline is 4 weeks away.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 06:30 PM) I think SoxTalk has reached a new low with this post. Hahn has been our GM for a total of 8 months. That's 1 offseason and 1/2 of a real season. The lack of patience on this board is beyond incredible. Can we at least wait until after the trade deadline before we start with these empty threats? I wasn't making an empty threat... just questioning Hahn's moves or lack of moves thus far. Saying Soxtalk has reached a new low with my post was a pretty disrespectful comment. I have admitted already that I have been a little too impatient with Hahn so far. I am merely just hoping for a change in philosophy and direction. As of his 8 months of being in the GM chair, he has yet to show me much. Can that change? Absolutely. And I sure hope it does soon. When your team is 32-47 and in dead last, there will be questions needed to be answered. And regardless of how much time he has had thusfar, those questions will be directed toward the GM.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 08:30 AM) He had one winter with a mediocre free agent market with two pretty important pending free agents. Not resigning either was the right move because Youkilis was overpaid, mediocre, and now hurt, and Pierzynski is older, not nearly as productive, and at some point Flowers needed a shot. Beyond Keppinger and Lindstrom, there wasn't a lot Hahn could do. He was always going to go into the year with Flowers behind the plate, you aren't going to replace Konerko, Beckham, Ramirez, Viciedo, De Aza, Rios, or Dunn...soo what more did you want him to do? He has not been "waaaaay too conservative" considering some of the moves people wanted him to make (BJ Upton, Josh Hamilton, whoever else) and how badly they've blown up. He's played it close to the vest because he knew this team was close to being either a division winner or completely terrible, and they've been the latter. Had he gone out and signed a ton more and tied up money through 2017, he'd have egg on his face right now. The fact that anybody typed this is absurd. This is an incredibly short-sighted and narrow mindset by which to evaluate a GM. Using this mindset, Hahn was either going to 1) Trade a bunch of players, see the team suck, be lambasted while losing prospects in the process. 2) Sign a bunch of players, see the team suck, be lambasted while being financially f***ed till 2017. 3) Sell a bunch of pieces off, get skewered in the media for selling, see the team suck, have media say it's his fault. 4) Play it close to the vest, see team suck, be in a position that gave team to compete and now can sell off, still his fault...? Honestly, tell me which of these 4 options would have been the best route for Mr. Hahn to take, and then get back to me. Hahn has not been too conservative and anybody who wants to admit that is either wants to make moves just to make moves (not ever really a good idea) or doesn't understand the nuances of being a GM. Oh, and BTW, the draft picks and Micker Zapata have told me enough about what Hahn wants to do that I'd say the Sox are going to be just fine. If you want to give up on a GM after a year and a half or whatever, then that's your perogative, but I'm willing to give multiple years to a guy who seemingly has an understanding of what he wants to do with this organization and where he wants to take it. Thankfully, Reinsdorf and the board feel the same as me. The fact that you say my opinion about Hahn is absurd is absurd. Am i being a little impatient, absolutely. However, for the organization to truly believe they would have a chance to compete with Detroit for the division is in fact absurd. They simply overachieved last season. With them overachieving I was simply hoping for Hahn to sell high on some of the veterans during the winter. "Beyond Keppinger and Lindstrom, there wasn't a lot Hahn could do. He was always going to go into the year with Flowers behind the plate, you aren't going to replace Konerko, Beckham, Ramirez, Viciedo, De Aza, Rios, or Dunn...soo what more did you want him to do?" I wasn't looking for him to spend a bunch of money on free agents or in fact blow up the team. Perhaps signing a couple of free agents here and there could not hurt. They had a legitimate opportunity for selling high on Dunn and Rios this winter and saving a bunch of cash in the process to use toward other positions. Now Dunn is untradeable once again. Are you telling me Hahn and the organization evaluated Flowers and Keppinger properly? Was signing Peavy at $14 million per year the best thing to do with his injury prone history? They could have easily signed another reliable starting pitcher with that money. Listen, the team has a miserable 33-47 record. And many of the guys Hahn banked on this year have sucked or have been injured. (Keppinger, Flowers, Peavy etc..) Is it all his fault? NO. A bulk of the blame should go to Robin and his staff. However, I am waiting and hoping for Hahn to commit to some sort of direction/change in philosophy. Get younger, get money in return for some of the vets, and start over

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 05:13 PM) If all you told me last offseason was that Konerko was going to implode and finally show his age, I'd have admitted the Sox wouldn't be competing for the Central this year. Hahn wasn't going to be able to replace him or trade him and no one was benching a 15 year veteran for a free agent signing. If Hahn had some idea that this level of sloppy, ridiculous, unfocused play was going to happen and did nothing about it then I'd endorse his immediate resignation, but I'm hanging that on the managerial staff. I agree that most of the blame goes to the manager and staff. However, you have to admit Hahn has been a little too conservative thusfar. I will give Hahn one more full year before I truly evaluate his moves. This trade deadline will be pivotal for the organization moving forward.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 04:58 PM) Assistant TO the regional manager. LOL NICE!

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 04:53 PM) How you could even begin to evaluate Hahn is beyond me. Give him the next offseason, at least. He already has had one winter to piece together a winning team. Lets not forget this team was close to winning the AL Central last year. His job was to maintain talent and to give the team enough to get over that Detroit hump. All he did was sign Keppinger and let Pierzynski walk. Not a very productive winter to say the least. Especially coming off of a relatively successful 2012 campaign. Should we give Mr. Hahn some extra time before we give him a full blown evaluation? YES. However, he has been wayyy too conservative thusfar. Hopefully he can make some moves near the deadline that can help us in the future. So far, Hahn has yet to make his big statement for the team. Yes, he re-signed Peavy but that was a KW inherited player. Its time to be BOLD! Lets move on from the past and set the team up nicely for the future, while at the same time setting themselves up for more financial flexibility to perhaps make a free agent splash or two next winter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 04:45 PM) He's been so involved in the disaster that is this season I want no part of him being given a "trial run". I won't mind if the manager is fired and he's given the interim job this season, but the reason to do that is to explicitly fire the manager to make the point that this management has done a terrible job this season. After this season I want him out just like the manager. Agreed. At this point we might as well let Ventura finish this disaster of a season out though. If Hahn doesn't wake up soon and make some deals to beef up the farm, shed salary and position his team to be competitive in the next couple years- his job needs to be evaluated as well. The dude has done NOTHING. And signing a 16 year old kid still hasn't changed my view on Hahn.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 04:34 PM) Mark Parent should be the interim manager after the all-star break. Won't happen, but he should. I think Robin will finish the year out but the Sox will likely move in another direction next year. The guy I want as our next manager is Dave Martinez. He has been the bench coach and right hand man to Joe Madden for the past 7 seasons. During that time the Rays have made it to the playoffs three times. Last year they won 90 games and just missed the playoffs.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 04:23 PM) I'd love for Jim to be our manager. God no! As much as I respect Thome.. he needs coaching experience first. The White Sox need to hire someone from the outside to manage this team as well. Someone with experience. No more Baines, Ventura, Guillen, Raines, Cora, Walker etc.. The Bulls did it right by hiring Thibs (an outsider with plenty of coaching experience). At least with Guillen, he collected coaching experience in Florida before the Sox hired him. Regardless, the next manager hire needs to be an outsider.

Perhaps he can take over for Rick Hahn?

I expect Ramirez, Rios, Crain, Thorton and Lindstrom to be dealt sooner rather than later. If Peavy can prove healthy right before the deadline, I expect him gone too. He may be one of those guys dealt right at the July 31st deadline. Guys that we are stuck with: Dunn and Keppinger (Barf!)

Ugh...that lineup makes me sad.

IMO Rios will be the first to be traded. If Hahn is smart (so far he has proven otherwise), he will hold on to Crain and let teams outbid each other for his services.

Bring him back for one more year. In all honestly, I question Hahn's ability to evaluate talent. I know many blaim KW for his hyper aggressive trades. The trades that depleted the farm system. However, if Hahn was KW's assistant GM, he was ALSO part of that problem. Hahn didn't do much of anything this past winter and I thought that was a small red flag. The time to shed some salary and sell high on a few players in nearing- he better make some long term based trades soon.

Any chance of competing with Detroit in 2013 is over. Now is our chance to sell high on Crain and Rios- pull that trigger, Hahn! If Peavy returns before the trade deadline and proves to be healthy- we may have a chance at dealing him as well. Lets shed as much salary as we can, lets restock the farm and start fresh next year.

I have not read all the posts in this thread but here is what this team needs to do. As a practical fan I know this team has waaaaay too many holes to compete with Detroit this year or even next year with this current roster. The make up of this roster is average- to below average at best. The offense is pretty bad overall and the defense has been embarrassing this year. With that said, this team needs to seriously consider a complete roster overhaul- a true rebuild. I know White Sox management hate that word and I always have loved KW for his aggressive behavior on trying to compete for a title every season. Unfortunately, his aggressiveness has paved the way for a roster with very limited farm talent. We currently have a mix of veterans and some young talent sprinkled in the mix. Meanwhile, guys like Ramirez, Beckham and Flowers were simply overvalued by the organization. But honestly, they are average to below average players at best. Dunn and Konerko have been BAD this year and that trend will continue. Viciedo is the only position player that we need to allow to have more time. He is still pretty young. Rios is a solid player, but the fact that he is our best player tells you just how bad of a state this organization is in. This team needs to a distinct direction. No more of the whole sprinkle young with old and rebuild on the fly style. They have gone with this format the past two seasons and they almost caught lightning in a bottle last year. But this year, it truly has caught up with them. You can't do both... you either need to spend the money and attempt to compete with Detroit OR re-stock the farm and suffer 2-3 poor seasons to acquire high draft picks and re-establish a respectable farm system. I think for the most part, we are all on board with plan B. If a team is losing, at least we would all have the comfort in knowing players are developing down in the farm and at the MLB level. Guys I expect them to move this year: Peavy, Rios, Ramirez, Thorton, Crain, and De Aza. If they can package any of them, you can likely maximize a decent return from a buyer which would be essential. I would love them to get a SS, OF and P prospects in return. The time to move is now Hahn! The days for sitting on your hands are over....