Wedge

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 15, 2005 -> 01:46 PM) Burnett>Contreras Is this really a true statement? I think it's a bit overstated, sort of like saying that Johan Santana > Mark Buehrle or something like that.

If Crede's hurt, we need an everyday 3B, not a utility guy.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 15, 2005 -> 09:50 AM) Well, ESPN 1000 mostly, but W. Mark Felt is a close second. Both are reputable sources.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 15, 2005 -> 09:42 AM) I'm hearing the Burnett deal may revolve around Marte and Everett. That's all I got for now. Who are you hearing this from? KW? Deep Throat? God?

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 15, 2005 -> 08:29 AM) Here's the link to Nightengale's article. A lot of tidbits to sort through that could affect the sox http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columni...14-majors_x.htm From that article: I think Sean Casey would make a huge impact on this team.

QUOTE(Winnin Ugly @ Jul 15, 2005 -> 08:16 AM) Still, despite the faint optimism, the Giants are listening to offers for ace Jason Schmidt and just about anyone else on the team. The Giants simply don't believe that Schmidt is the same pitcher, with his velocity dropping about 4 mph this year, and they don't want to pick up his $10.5 million option. The White Sox and Nationals have shown the most interest. The Giants deployed scouts this past week to get the latest on the White Sox farm system. That makes me believe that perhaps Schmidt won't be as expensive as I thought... if he only costs prospects, then I wouldn't mind a deal.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 15, 2005 -> 07:57 AM) Now that bothers me alot. If there is any team out there that could probably trump us all with prospects, its the Twins. I'd rather the Twins make the playoffs than the A's.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 11:30 PM) Umm... Duchscherer is a reliever. He'll still probably say the same thing, just with Harden-Zito-Haren instead of Mulder-Zito-Hudson. And still won't give him any credit for acquiring/drafting the guys. Yeah, sorry, I got my pitchers mixed up. Haren and Blanton are both pretty solid, as well.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 08:51 PM) Contreras yes (he can't pitch against Cleveland every game), but we wouldn't have to give up BMac. I'd let them have Brian Anderson though, because he's not going to beat out Dye this year or next, and after that Sweeney or Young might be ready. And Jeckle 2000, this is why you would buy Jason Schmidt: 2002 SF 29 29 2 2 185.1 148 78 71 15 73 196 13 8 0 0 -- 3.45 2003 SF 29 29 5 3 208.2 152 56 54 14 46 208 17 5 0 0 -- 2.34 2004 SF 32 32 4 3 225.0 165 84 80 18 77 251 18 7 0 0 -- 3.20 By comparison, Freddy Garcia had these years in a similar pitcher's park: 2002 Sea 34 34 1 0 224.2 227 110 109 30 63 181 16 10 0 0 -- 4.39 2003 Sea 33 33 1 0 201.1 196 109 101 31 71 144 12 14 0 0 -- 4.52 I take it you are happy with Freddy's production with us. If there wasn't some question about Schmidt there is no chance he would be available. But you can hardly say he's a lousy pitcher. San Fran said they wanted 3 players, a fairly establish, middle rotation type pitcher (Contreras), a young pitcher (McCarthy), and a prospect (Anderson). I don't think we could land Schmidt without giving up McCarthy. The statistics you give are somewhat misleading. In 2004, Garcia performed fairly well in Seattle with a 3.20 ERA, which was in line with his ERA from 2000 and 2001. This suggested that over the three years we would have with Garcia that we should expect around a 4.00 ERA. In fact, this is correct: he had a 4.46 ERA with the Sox last season and a 3.53 ERA thus far this season. Schmidt's career stats tell a different story. His initial seasons in Pittsburgh saw him posting nearly a 5.00 ERA. In 2001 he was traded to SF and been a fairly dominating pitcher (definitely an ace and a workhorse) with an ERA a little over 3. However, unlike Garcia, Schmidt is now dealing with injuries that a limiting him to the numbers he experienced early in his career in Pittsburgh. There are so many questions with Schmidt that should make you question if giving up Contreras, McCarthy, and another top prospect is worth it: are his SF numbers the result of playing in SF? Why the sudden loss of velocity? How will he transfer in the AL? How will he transfer to the Cell? I don't believe too much in chemistry, but how will adding a "star" player affect the dynamic of the pitching staff and the entire team? Will he be able to play well for us in 2006 or will his contract be an albatros hanging from our neck? At this point in the season, those are questions I don't want to have to find out the answers to. Go with what we have, we're fine.

It's weird seeing a lot of people flop around about which pitcher to get based on one or two performances. The Burnett talk seemed to cool off after today's outing, but not Schmidt has a pretty good outing and we want him again. Stick to your guns, don't let one outing dictate your opinion: use facts, reason, and logic to do that.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 10:28 PM) Don't look now, but Oakland is only 3 games back of Minnesota for the Wild Card, and 1.5 games back of Texas for second(though still 8 back of Anaheim). Going 27-11 over a stretch of 38 games with the offense finally catching some fire didn't hurt, did it? Anyone can win with 3 aces, eh Hawk? :rolly I think you could argue that the A's have 3 aces these days: Harden, Zito, Duchsheruerhdher or whatever his name is.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 07:04 PM) Hasn't Contreras owned the Indians in his career? I wouldn't say he's a good starter by a start against a team he hasn't ever had a problem with. How many times are we (or more importantly Contreras) facing the Indians in the second half? Probably a few. Maybe Burnett will always pitch horrible against them or other AL Central teams.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 07:02 PM) Truth is, Burnett isn't much more consistant than the Count. I've consistantly said that I like Burnett, but I wouldn't break the bank for him. Thank God somebody else on this board thinks the way I do. We need a hitting 3B or SS more than a pitcher.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 07:00 PM) MOTHERf***INGCOCKSUCKINGPIECEOFs***KONERKO Goose Fraba, kid.

The tale of two cities: Burnett vs. Contreras. Maybe we don't need to upgrade?

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 04:39 PM) I still think Schmidt is a much more likely trade target then AJ Burnett. For one, the Giants, but not the Marlins, are out of the race. For another, the Giants might accept Contreras as part of the return package. Then we won't have any problem exercising Schmidt's option for 2006. And everyone would recognize that Schmidt has been a whole lot better than Burnett over the last 3 years. The only concern people have is his early-season decline in velocity. Yet the last game he pitched I saw and he didn't look like an injured pitcher to me, and he was firing pitches at 95 consistently through the middle innings and into the 7th. Leiter? I'd take him for nothing if he'd accept a rehab assignment at AAA to see if he could be sorted out. Would he take that? I don't know. I believe that most agreed that the price for Schmidt would be Contreras, BMac, and a prospect. That's pretty expensive for a guy that you're unsure if he'll be with you next year and if he can be healthy.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 06:01 PM) I forget where I read it [maybe from Bob Nightengale of Sports Weekly] he said Beane was listening to offers for Zito despite his public stance. If the price were similar for Zito as it would be for Burnett, I'd rather have Zito: Cheaper next yr, not the injury concerns, better acquainted with the AL. If the prices were equal and I had to make a trade, I also would choose Zito over Burnett. I think Zito is more of a viable option for the Sox. He hasn't pitched superwell the last few years, but he has some playoff experience.

OT: Fotop, I like your avatar. Weis is going to rule.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 03:42 PM) Because he's the best pitcher available. You already shat all over the Schmidt deal. What the hell do you have against Burnett? I think I was justified in s***ting all over the Schmidt deal. That would have been a mistake. A high cost and a high amount of risk. That isn't a sound method of doing business, particularly when you already have something successful going on. I have nothing against Burnett. He may or may not be the best pitcher available, but I just don't see him improving the team that much. I definitely don't think he will improve the team as much as it will cost to get him. Ask yourself, would you trade BMac straight up for Burnett? I wouldn't. That's five years of cheap, and probably pretty decent pitching (Jon Garland 2001-2004 as a floor and Mark Prior as a ceiling) for a half a season of a pitcher who may or may not improve our team and then cost more than any other pitcher on our staff. Additionally, that guy isn't an ace and doesn't have playoff experience and has pitched 30 games in a season once. I believe you want this trade to happen for the sake of a trade happening.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 03:38 PM) What pick you get is determined by the record of the team that signs them. If the pick is top 15 I believe it is protected though. (Edit) Also the free agents are classified as, A, B, C, where A's get first round pick, and so on down. SB I know we gave up our first last season when we signed Hernandez, so I'm sure that Konerko would be an A free agent.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 03:38 PM) Damn it. I hate Crede, but I don't want to see him replaced by Lowell. I want Burnett badly, but I don't wanna have to lose great defense for it. AHHHHHHHHH, why can't this be easy?! Why do you want Burnett badly?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 03:31 PM) If the Sox offered Konerko arbitration, and he refused/declined it, would we get one or two draft picks? Can someone with knowledge of arbitration chime in on this? Konerko is beyond arbitration, I believe. However, if he left, I believe we could get a sandwich pick.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 03:26 PM) Wedge.. I agree. But they don't. They think they are going to beat both the Yanks and Boston. Really.. they do.. OK, OK. They are idiots for feeling that way. Realistically, they have a lot of nice pieces right now and should try to use the trade deadline to put together a nice 2006 squad that could make a serious run. Next year, Boston will probably be a bit on the downswing and I'm not sure if NYY can seriously improve its squad this offseason. I guess Burnett in a long term deal would do it, but they really need an ace (we can argue all day if Buehrle is a true ace or not, but Ponson definitely is not an ace).

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 03:09 PM) Baltimore loves their chances. They think they are going to take the division easily. I think it's only a matter of time until Boston takes over the division, especially with Schilling potentially filling out that bullpen. He'll do really great in that role. The winds have changed in the East. For most of the first half of the season, Baltimore's been pretty healthy (Sosa aside) and gotten good breaks. Now there's some cracks showing on that team and they've played horribly the last week or two against NYY and BOS. Burnett to Baltimore is only good if they sign him long term. That sort of deal would be a lot like the Garcia deal from last year. Burnett is at best a #2 or #3 pitcher (especially with his durability issues), but would boost that rotation.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 03:10 PM) We might learn a little bit about Schmitty tonight with that AS rest against the Dodgers. Maybe, but I don't think Schmitty has done much this season to suggest that he's over his arm problems and that it's worth trading two major league pitchers for him.