fathom

QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:45 PM) I really believe that ANYONE going into this season EXPECTING to win 110+ games was setting themselves up for tremendous disappointment. Get a grip, sox fans. There's no one who expected more out of this team this season that KW and Hawk. KW didn't trade one of our most exciting prospects in years in order to get a 13 million dollar 5th starter if he didn't expect the Sox to repeat. Everyone in the organization this year has said it's Repeat or Bust.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:52 PM) Fathom, I disagree. Last years "team" had more luck. They were almost unbeatable in 1 run games. But if you look at the players this year versus last year, this years team is better. Now there are many reasons why they have lost more games, a major one being they are the defending champs. Any team that wins, becomes a target and every team is getting ready to play them. As compared to last year where even in the playoffs many "experts" were calling it a fluke. Not to mention the team last year really struggled at this point of the season, but then really came up big in the playoffs. If this team does the same thing, it will be hard to say that last years team was better. Last year's team had great starting pitching, and they had 3 relievers that were basically unhittable. We RARELY win games this year where we don't score at least 4 runs. Last year, if we got a 2 run lead early in the game, you could send it to Cooperstown.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:21 PM) Did I miss a purity test to buy a jersey or get into a ballpark? Yeah, as long as those people are buying merchandise and newspapers based on their favorite team, they are "fans" IMO. And you missed the whole point of the post if you think I am bashing our fan base. The point is, we are getting the kind of coverage we as fans are looking for. Because White Sox fans trend towards the negative side of everything, that's why our coverage tends to follow that same theme. I know some people are going to try to jump in and pick at specifics here as usual, but unlike some, I am not presenting this as a be all end all truth of Chicago media. Its a theory. Nothing more, nothing less. I completely respect your theory...but I ask this: has the coverage of the Sox been that bad this year? I think the media has been rather fair to us this year, and they've definitely given us the respect that a world champion deserves. We're definitely a glass half-empty fan base, and that started well before most of us were born. I've actually been surprised that the media hasn't made a bigger issue out of some of Ozzie's comments this year.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:19 PM) I didn't say that, but obsessing over every single pitch and going nuts is not an enjoyable thing, and neither is reading all the spew associated with it. BTW, that post wasn't specifically addressed to you, I meant it more in general. I know it wasn't addressed specifically towards me, as I know you and I had a nice debate about McCarthy yesterday (please come into the threads more and start discussions like that). Wouldn't you agree that most game threads for any sporting team is going to be reactionary and full of second guessing though?

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:11 PM) I can't believe that one post wondering if we wanted the team in the playoffs the way it is playing now. Are you serious? Of course we do. Especially with our team's playoff experience. We win the opening game of the playoffs and you want to see a fanbase get concerned: it'll be the fan base of every team "expected" to beat us in the playoffs. We need to scratch and find a way in. My guess is we'll know after this Detroit series whether or not our players "want" to get back and make a splash. We lose all 4 and that will tell us we're pretty much done. We win 2 or more and the beat goes on. It reminded me of the posts from people who were saying that once the Indians got close to catching us in the standings, they wondered if we really wanted this team to make the playoffs. Once you get to the playoffs, everything changes. You don't need to be the best team...all you need is timely hitting and pitching, and you have a great chance.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:07 PM) Sox fans are WAY more negative than Cub fans, there isn't a doubt in my mind. Example number one would be the fact there are still sellouts every single night at Wrigley Field, despite the product on the field. If the Sox had a record like that, they would be drawing 15K, and even the Bulls and Bears would be experiencing no-shows on a large scale. Are we really counting the tour groups from Iowa as the Cubs fan base? I thought we were considering legitimate fans of the team? Out of all years, this is definitely not the time where we should be bashing our fan base. The attendance has been sensational this year, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find people saying our fans are negative outside of those who read this site, etc. QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 05:37 PM) Me, I am savoring this year. Win or lose, I'm going to enjoy my time on the top of the heap. If we can't do it again, well, we did it once. And it was magical. And once upon a time called 2004 that would've been good enough for me. Because it took f***ing forever to get here,and I'll be damned if I'm going to let a few sourpusses who have lost some perspective ruin it for me. FWIW....losses this year are a hell of a lot easier to get over than they were last year. The one thing that has really caused the outpour of frustration for Sox fans this year is that the expectations for this season were incredibly high. There was no way we were going to match the magic last season's team had, even with the bolstered roster. I say this often, but the more things happen this year, the more I appreciate how everything fell into place last season.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 08:03 PM) So a fan is one who s***s all over their team every chance they get, only to come back and say "CROW" when something goes right? Stay home. Aren't critical posts of the White Sox allowed on this site though? This is the best Sox site on the internet, and that's because it's soxtalk.com and not soxcheerleadingtalk.com. There's no one on this site who's 100 pct negative. Hell, even in this very thread, two of the people considered the most pessimistic, Milkman and myself, were actually telling people to not freak out over losing the game yesterday.

My plea is to the White Sox to play the next 39 games with intensity and energy. If not, they'll be remembered along with some other Chicago teams in the last 25 years that underachieved in the season after they won the championship/pennant. There's no use in telling people on this site how to act. We all express ourselves differently, and as long as we're Sox fans, that's enough for me. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 07:58 PM) Part of me has started to wonder if this is why we get the type of press coverage that we get. We have, by far, the most negative fan base of any team in Chicago, IMO. The Cubs, by far have the most postive fan base, with the Bulls, Bears, and Blackhawks next going from most positive to least. The weird thing is that I think the press coverage seems to slant towards those views, as I think the Cubs get the most happy publicity in town followed by the Bulls, Bears, Hawks and finally the Sox. I really wonder if the newspaper higher ups have picked up on the vibes and picked writers for the teams based on those demographics, as people really want to read what they believe, as it is with most people. Because most Sox fans are more negative than anyone else in Chicago sports, would we buy as many newspapers from a group who wrote mostly positive articles, or would the Sox fan base gravitiate towards the more negative writings, as it speaks closer to their feelings? I really wonder if Sox fans are getting what they ask for in media coverage? We're more negative than Cubs fans? I couldn't disagree more. No one cares about the Hawks, and the Bulls/Bears don't split up the fan base like the baseball teams do. Cubs fans have completely changed their mindset from 3 or 4 years ago.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 07:46 PM) Why wouldnt you think the Sox can win it all? They have a better team than last year and they have done outstanding against teams with winning records. Its just not cool to think the Sox can do it. Correction...the sox have a better roster than last year. On a "team" level, last year's team blows this year's team away.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 01:41 AM) Jerry Owens, think younger, faster version of Podsednik. Without the injury excuse.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 01:24 AM) My guess would be fields, sweeney, stewart and Tracey. I don't think we'll call up Sweeney. I think Logan and Owens are locks to be called up.

QUOTE(chisox72 @ Aug 21, 2006 -> 01:00 AM) Ozuna threw that ball to third, not Anderson. Today was a rough one, as expected with Johan on the mound. But the time for BS is gone, and the time to step up and not suck is here. He's referring to the Redmond single.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 11:14 PM) And Vazquez was great until.... We might as well just post this for every start of his, and let people fill in the blanks.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:46 PM) Ozzie is becoming really really annoying. JMO, of course. He has to realize that no one is saying this stuff due to what ethnicity he is....he's the MANAGER OF THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX! Once again, he makes immature comments and forgets he has to show some professionalism. I can just imagine what would happen if someone like Joe Torre said a comment about people saying stuff about him due to being white.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:29 PM) Watching this team day in and day out, your 100%. Hawk gets alot of crap(for REAL good reason) but his criticism this year has been dead on. The last two months of the season would have been much worse if not for some terrific annoucing by Hawk and DJ. They're not trying to shove down our throats how great Ozzie and this team are.

I think I'm the only one to feel like this team did have their "rhythm" earlier in the year. For the first few months of this season, we had 6 of our starters on offense overachieving at the plate. When you couple that with our starters being much better at the beginning of the season (besides Garland), we were playing pretty damn well. Not many teams will have 6 guys going well at the plate. Our biggest weakness earlier in the year was our bullpen, but now I would say that's our greatest strength (besides Cotts).

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:20 PM) So are we just one of the luckiest teams in baseball to be where we are? We are only 3 games behind where we were at this time last year. The Twins, Sox and Tigers are all playing about 2 games better than their numbers would suggest they should play. I see a lot of people saying that this team is like 2004 and those years. In 2004 through 122 games in the season, we were 60-62. Right now we are 73-50. In 2003 we were 63-59. Despite Detroit playing out of their minds this year, we are only 5 games back in the loss column. So, you are telling me the difference between a team that "simply isn't that good" and one that is pretty awesome in the Tigers is only 5 games? But I respect your opinion. You make it without whining everytime something goes wrong. I disagree, but respect the fact that you don't make your feelings known one way or the other after every good or bad thing that happens. Nonetheless, I can think of 10 or 11 teams in the AL that would like to suck as much as we do. I think a much more accurate statement would be to say this team isn't on par with last year's team. So many people expected us to match the achievements of last year's team (greatest rotation ever, etc). Even if this team has more talent this year, last year's team overachieved compared to too many guys on this team underachieving. Our 3-4-5 is just awesome this year though, and Crede's been a star.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:16 PM) And the optimists in this thread aren't acting high-and-mighty. That must be because all of the good posters no longer visit this site.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:11 PM) I'm really not mad either. Funny thing is that I seem to be angry when others are calm and vice versa. Yeah, the three things I'm angry about are: - PK's lack of focus at the plate/in the field in the first 4 innings - Ozzie using Cotts when we're down 2 in the 8th - Our outfield defense continuing to have the baseball IQ of a 5 yr old. See, I like this thread because people are actually making valid points and using statistics/observations instead of just saying "these guys suck, I can't wait until we can unload Vaz/Garcia/Pods for Carl Crawford and Jason Schmidt this offseason". I do miss the days though when it seemed like there was a White Sox Winner thread 70 pct of the time.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:10 PM) I guess you're done questioning whether he was seriously hurt or not, Yes I am. I know I wasn't the only one questioning it.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 05:52 PM) That's the kind of thing people used to say about Ozzie.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 09:04 PM) OK, I haven't read this thread yet, but I thought I'd try to lighten the mood for a second. When I saw the name of this thread and then looked at who started it, I was surprised to see it wasn't fathom or myself. Hell, I'm not even that upset today. Everyone in the world knew that the Sox would lose today. I would have bet my life savings on the Twins today. I'm happy we're still up in the Wild Card. Unless we get more than 1 game behind in the standings, I will always be optimistic (even if I don't express it in my posts).

Ugh...you were usually one of the posters who made me think there was hope! Basically, the problems you mentioned are what happened from 2001-2004. Neal Cotts allowed 1 homer in about 65 innings last year. This year, it's 8 homers in about 49 innings.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 08:58 PM) Yeah, Ozzie, that must be it. Did Ozzie really say that?

Javer Vazquez....Mr. 101