fathom

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 08:48 PM) Fair enough, fathom. If Thornton woulda come in and threw it to the screen then got rapped for a broken bat triple, would you have blamed Oz or Thornton? Just wondering. Pls. be truthful. Nope...once the first two guys got on, that was Thornton's game to win or lose. There's no one else in the bullpen besides him that would have even been an option after Jenks looked so bad against the first two hitters. If Thornton doesn't do the job there, then it's his fault.

No Crede again tonight

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:44 PM) The Sizemore hit was a flare. But here and more importantly, why wasn't Konerko guarding the line for Michaels it was a tie game and the go ahead run was on second so I suppose you want to take away the hit through the infield? Also, why was Anderson playing the second batter in the 9th to pull so much especially with Sweeney in left? We were playing up for the bunt. And for the Marte double....that's a play that Anderson has to cut-off. If Mackowiak did that, we would have never heard the end of it.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 07:40 AM) Kalapse, with all due respect, you and fathom sometimes act like Oz isn't watching the game. I was watching the game and sensed Bobby still had a chance to get out of it, though I wasn't sure, and Oz left him in. Sometimes I think you guys think Oz is some guy who has never seen a baseball game. Do you realize his experience??? Also just curious .. if Oz had yanked him and brought in a reliever who lost the game, me thinks fathom still woulda blamed Oz. Cause he wouldn't have brought in the reliever you wanted. Um, we wanted Thornton to be brought in to face Sizemore. He was the person warming up. The thing is greg, we were stating this stuff well in advance of the Jenks blow-up. There's plenty of time when you can accuse us of second guessing....but this isn't one of them.

QUOTE(WinningUgly85 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:40 AM) I don't criticize ozzie because I believe in his managerial skills. I think many of you are forgetting that Ozzie instills confidence in his players by showing that he trusts in their abilities. So I don't mind that he left Jenks in, not because we won but because Jenks will have the confidence next time around to close out a perfect game. Just remember without this ingredient we wouldn't be World Series champs. Ladies and gentlemen....Chris Rongey

Unless I was reading a different game thread, there was no one that didn't want Jenks to start the 9th. However, a majority of the people in there said that if he looks crappy again, we need to pull him when Sizemore gets up.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:15 AM) OK fathom, but why won't you address the situation of our medical staff obviously saying he was able to pitch. If he's deemed fit to pitch ... it now seems to me you want Ozzie to be a mindreader and decide, 'Wait, I've been told he can pitch and is able to close, but I truly feel he's hurt, so I better get him out of there.' That's what I don't understand about your position. It seems to me you wanted Ozzie to be a mindreader. This is a team for a reason. Doctors clear players to play. If he's not 100 percent he should not have been on tonight's available to perform list, like Crede was not on the available to perform list. If you have enough discomfort to require an MRI, I just can't imagine you're 100 pct healthy two/three days later. I have no issue with him going out there to start the 9th. However, once you see he's struggling again, you pull him before Sizemore comes up in a situation where he can decide the game.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:10 AM) This is possibly the most excited I've been about a win all year simply because I didn't want to have to argue about Ozzie's 9th inning blunder. Ugh, thank you AJ. Yep, I think we both said after the top of the 9th that a comeback would be just great so we don't have to have a 20 page thread about that situation.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:10 AM) What is so difficult to accept my position that we had a two run lead and we brought in our closer to start the inning. Our closer failed. To understand your position better ... if Bobby was healthy do you agree he should have been allowed to either get the save or blow the save, not be removed at any point just because he appeared to not have it. I think it's safe to say ALL managers put in their closers with a 2 run lead or one run lead and it is the closer's game. So if Bobby is healthy do you agree he should be allowed to either get the save or blow it? YES OR NO? I said in the game thread that if Jenks is 100 pct healthy, I want him on the mound before anyone else regardless of the situation or who's up. The thing is, Jenks isn't close to 100 pct., and I think everyone knows it. It's the same situation that Ozzie has had to face with Contreras. Just because a guy says he's not hurt, it doesn't mean he's healthy and feeling good.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:04 AM) He is? I would disagree with that. I love everything about the guy. His quotes are legendary. They might be legendary, but not necessarily in a good way.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:08 AM) Obviously I'm out of the loop. Ya, I was hoping you knew what we're referring to. Jphat said that due to the negativity in the threads, good posters don't post in there anymore.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:06 AM) Well thats too bad. You were a good poster in there. Kept things reasonable. It's the million dollar question, and we just got a hint. Greasy is one of the legendary "good posters". Milkman...it's like a faction in wrestling.

QUOTE(tealeafreaderii @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:05 AM) yeah but there were 2 or 3 posts, and no one bothered to refute them... well, almost no one Anyone that gives up in a one run game against this Indians bullpen should just stop watching baseball.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:59 AM) That was amazing. Coming right back after the Tribe took the lead on us. Paulie base hit; AJ boom. We win. Nice. Now that the game is over, will you consider that maybe Jenks should have been pulled prior to Sizemore's AB? As I'm sure you'll agree with me on, we need to get Jenks healthy ASAP. QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 04:00 AM) Way to ruin a good thread. Your act is lame. The funny thing is that I don't think there was more than two or three posts in that thread that said the game was over.

Great win...now lets get Jenks healthy. We have the pitching advantage going into the game tomorrow, so lets hope we can get some focus by our hitters and pick up a game on the Tigers or Twins.

WOOOO!!! It was never in doubt.

So now AJP is bunting?

QUOTE(S720 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:49 AM) Stop lying Fathom. If Jenks was healthy, you would have still jumped on Ozzie. Admit it! You are just watching every single negative that you can find to blame on Ozzie. Since last year! Jenks is the pitcher I have the most confidence in on the team, and it's not even close. I can guarantee you (feel free to believe me if you want) that I would have wanted him in to face Sizemore if he's 100 pct. What I love about Jenks is that he can K batters in tough situations. However, it's too bad that he's not even close to 100 pct.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:49 AM) Torre has a nice cushion, and can be afforded the luxery of playing somewhat-injured players. If Bobby's medically cleared to play by Herm and everyone involved in that decision, then I have no problem putting him in. I do think it was a mistake not to have Thornton face Grady, but I don't blame him for showing some confidence in his pitcher. I hope we win this ballgame. I don't want this to end on such a bulls*** note. Torre was resting Rivera a few months ago, when the Yanks were well behind the Red Sox.

How about we have a comeback, and just laugh about how quick Jenks blew the save?

QUOTE(MHizzle85 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:47 AM) again with this he was sent home on a plane, if it was serious enough he wouldnt of been out there. point. blank. period. It didn't show any structural damage. At this point in the season, I doubt a competitor like Jenks is going to say he's can't pitch. It's the same as Buehrle and Contreras, if you ask me. Actually, I think Jenks' injury is worse than Buehrle's right now.

Has anyone on here ever pitched with a sore hip? It's very difficult to finish your pitches, and you don't get your legs behind the offspeed pitch. Jenks hasn't thrown a good offspeed pitch to the last 10 batters or so that he's faced.

QUOTE(S720 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:45 AM) Jenks is our f***ing closer, if you are not aware! Do you think Torres will pull Mariano after two men got on base when his team is leading by two runs? Have some decency to acknowledge this is all on Jenks! Nope, Torre doesn't pitch Rivera if he's not feeling good. There's been at least three games this year where he didn't put Rivera out there, as he knew he wasn't 100 percent. If Jenks was healthy, then I would have had no problem with him being left out there that long.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:45 AM) I can't believe anyone could be this dense. Jenks is hurt. He's been saying all week that he's hurt and obviously isn't 100%. When you put your closer into the game in THAT situation, then he has to be on a short leash. THAT is the situation where you don't leave your closer out there to give out double after double after double. Do you get it...finally? Stop making sense.

QUOTE(S720 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:41 AM) You guys are A BUNCH OF f***ING WHINERS! Blame f***ing everything on Ozzie. At the sight of Hermanson warming up, you guys were pulling for Jenks to close. Now Jenks failed, you blame on Ozzie. You guys are so f***ing pathetic! No, we didn't want Hermanson to be closing. I have no problem with Jenks starting this inning. However, once he got to a situation where Sizemore could do damage, you have to pull him.