Kalapse

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 24, 2008 -> 05:26 PM) If it's a 1-2 year deal, I really don't have a problem with it. Perez as a 5 is passable. I'd much rather have an innings eater in the 5th spot, not a 32 year old who's probably going to throw 120-160 innings with a large possibility of completely bombing. Case in point: he lasted 7+ innings 3 times out of 30 starts last season and lasted less than 6 innings in half of his outings (15/30) including 7 outings of 4 IP or less. What would that 4.34 ERA look like if he wasn't pulled after 5 in nearly half his outings? If he doesn't have a great defense behind him he's going to give up a f***-ton of hits, he has a high LD%, high contact% and an 88 MPH fastball

LINK It says he's received offers from the Yankees and White Sox but is working on a multi-year deal with the Nationals. Assuming the Sox offered him a 1 year deal (why would they go any longer?) you have to figure their chances of landing the overweight soft tosser aren't too good.

If the Giants could have put off signing Renteria for another week they probably would have saved themselves a 2nd round pick. The Tigers probably weren't going to offer Renteria (a type A free agent) arbitration and the deadline to offer free agents arbitration is next Monday. So by locking him up before December 1st they cost themselves a 2nd round pick (they finished with one of the 15 worst records in the game last season so they lose a 2nd round pick rather than a 1st).

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 23, 2008 -> 04:32 PM) Here is something: Billingsly broke his leg and will be out awhile. I would love to make a deal around Javy for Kemp. Eh, if you consider December and January "awhile" then I suppose. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...rtnerId=rss_mlb Also, Javy refuses to play for any team on the West Coast and has the no trade protection to back it up and you gotta figure the Dodgers can get better value than Javy Vazquez for an all world talent like Matt Kemp.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 23, 2008 -> 02:38 PM) DeJesus is not a table setter. .360 OBP (.73 IsoD), good speed, WELL above average contact rate and can knock himself in from the top? Works for me. The one argument you can make, much like Alexei Ramirez, is that he's more valuable down in the lineup where he can make better use of his above average RISP numbers and drive runners in rather than wasting that ability hitting him after #8 and 9 hitters.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 23, 2008 -> 09:18 AM) He's a poor LF at that. He's got a lot of Podsednik in him. I remember a game when the Sox faked him out of his shoes last year. They faked him out and induced a soft toss a throw to 2nd, IIRC, and the Sox runner went to 3rd, then scored because he threw behind him. That's funny because DeJesus carries a reputation for being a pretty good LF and he rated near the top of all ML LF in plenty of defensive metrics in 2008 (PMR had him #2). The one knock on him is his weak arm (ranked near the bottom in Runs/200 (runs saved per 200 opportunities) among CF in 2007) but he makes up for it with excellent range, getting to balls that just about no other LF can. Then you take into account the fact that LF isn't even a real defensive position, it's typically used as a hiding place for a player who can't play a real defensive position like CF or infield (sans 1B), doesn't have the arm for RF and isn't as good as the incumbent 1B but is valuable enough on offense that he must be kept in the lineup. So you ask yourself how someone can possibly be a poor LF when the position is generally occupied by the defensively challenged. But if you saw him get faked out one time . . .

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Nov 22, 2008 -> 05:45 PM) I dont understand why people go nuts over rumored trades involving the White Sox. KW works under the radar! Except when he doesn't ala Thome, Vazquez, Garcia to the Phillies, Pierzynski . . . there were plenty of rumors of each before the actual deals went down.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 08:43 PM) There were stats that reported his velocity down like .5 mph. Not a big deal On average his fastball was down 0.4 MPH from '07 (90 compared to 90.4) and down 1.7 MPH from '06 (91.7).

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 06:11 PM) On the other site, someone posted the Ben Maller was on XM Radio and said that he heard Javy & Jenks were going to the Mets for F.Martinez, Pelfrey, and Murphy. Man, that's the stuff right there. For the past 2 years I've described any potential package for Jenks as having to be a "King's ransom" and that deal is pretty damn close.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 06:09 PM) The Sox traded for Johnny Danks when he was a Boras client. A lot can change over time, and the Sox would have control of Pelfrey for 5 more seasons I believe. Yes, 5 more years, 2 more until arbitration and Boras rears his ugly head. I don't think Danks was nearly as attached to Boras as Pelfrey is but whatever, you're right anything can happen.

QUOTE (longshot7 @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 05:40 PM) Joe Crede is a Boras client. How long was he on the team for? I think it's two totally different situations. Crede was drafted in the 5th round, groomed and developed by the White Sox (he later hired Scott Boras, he was not his agent during the draft) and eventually given a starting job with the big club and became a key member of the organization, someone not easily replaced. In this case the Sox would be actively seeking out and acquiring one of Boras' most prized young clients, a pitcher for whom Boras landed the largest bonus ever paid to a draft pick by the Mets in 2005 and making him a key member of the organization, something I'm not sure KW and the front office want to go through again after publicly speaking of their frustrations with Boras during the whole Crede situation. It just doesn't feel right to me.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 05:38 PM) There are worse risks and the upsides are many. The last thing I like to take risks with are character issues. And by character it's not the laughing at the camera antics, it's the not giving 100% antics that concern me. He's a phenomenal talent, but in three or four years, physically, I could see him in a similar spot as Junior, and wondering if he would give the same effort? And before someone starts comparing Manny to Junior and saying it is an unfair comparison, insert the aging player of your choice and give him Manny's efforts. Manny will get older. He will decline physically, then desire, heart, and effort take over. That's why you only go as long as 4 years (preferably 3), play him for 1 year in LF then move him to DH in 2010 (assuming he's willing to make the move). This way you're risking maybe 1 or 2 years of 39/40 year old Manny quitting on your club because he's become so limited physically but even then; he'll be in a contract year and looking for his final deal, and NO ONE is going to want a 40/41 year old fat former superstar who can no longer play the field and is coming off a year in which he just didn't look like he gave a damn. Plus, I think Manny has a little more pride in himself and his legacy than to go out like that, like I said before, I just think he got too comfortable in Boston. I believe he truly loves the game (though he may not truly respect the integrity of the game which is a shame) and has about as much fun as anyone out there on the field, perhaps a bit too much fun at times.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 05:03 PM) Agreed. It seems that many GMs are hesitant to sign Manny for 4 or 5 years. But it will only take one to make his dreams come true. I still say whomever holds Manny's last contract is taking a huge risk. He has demonstrated the ability to play half ass more than other players, and much more than other superstars. Yeah but even when Manny was at his supposed worst effort wise (July, 2008) he still put up a .347/.473/.587/1.060 line. I just think he got too comfortable in Boston, he thought he could take a few days off just because he felt like it in the middle of the season without repercussions but he was dead wrong. I don't remember him being a distraction during his 8 years in Cleveland when they went to the WS twice or a major problem when he was just being Manny during the Red Sox World Series run in 2004, when you're talking about adding an all-time great talent like Manny I think it's worth the risk.

I just don't see Mike Pelfrey as being a realistic option for the Sox. He's one of Scott Boras' most prized clients and has been quite loyal to his agent in the past. Boras can't wait to make Pelfrey some money, starting 2 years from now when he'll first be eligible for arbitration and Boras begins comparing him to Roy Halladay and Brandon Webb.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 04:48 PM) Manny on a three year deal would be interesting and I'd be down with that. Manny on his last contract, I'm not. Matter of fact, I'd love to have Manny on his next to last contract. I just doubt he will sign less than a 5 and more likely a 6. If he's offered enough money over 3 or 4 years I think he'll jump at it, I just don't see any team (even the Yankees) giving Manny 6 years. Keep in mind, the offer that Manny flatout rejected from the Dodgers was only 2 guaranteed years at $22.5M per, that's a low ball offer for sure. Boras clients often have to settle for less than they demand at the opening of free agency, sure he's demanded 6 years now, just as Derek Lowe wants $16M, Jeff Weaver wanted 4 years 2 years ago and Kyle Lohse wanted $50M+ last year we'll see what they end up signing for in the end.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 04:35 PM) I do not believe that insinuation was there, if it was, it was unintentional. Who about this; there's still a group of fans out there, mostly older fans who still can't come to grips with the millions of dollars these players are making and remember the good old days, before free agency when players would spend their entire careers with a club in an act of perceived loyalty (though the players didn't have much of a choice) and uninformed "weekend" fans who don't/refuse to understand the larger landscape of the modern game and the business like approach/attitude that has overtaken the major sports, who would take offense to a player looking out for themselves and accepting more money from another franchise because their current team refused to meet their demands. Indians fans still can't get over the loss of Jim Thome )he's booed to this day) largely because they refuse to accept the larger elements at play in that situation. I still think ownership takes the brunt of fan criticism when a star player goes elsewhere in free agency. The owner/front office is called cheap and ripped for not making more of an effort to retain the player.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 04:14 PM) Again, My point is baseball is a business and in fairness, fans should treat both sides equally in that. Dye possibly being traded seemed like a great example. Great individual, has been playing fairly well, accepted less to play for the Sox, basically been a perfect Sox player. No one, including myself, is suggesting the team should show any loyalty. Now when we look at some players and the contracts they are looking for, we should remember that. Many posters already do, some do not. I am surprised that caused controversy. You make it seem like the majority of the fan base expects the players to be loyal to the franchise when that's just not the case at all. My problem with what you're saying has nothing to do with the actually subject matter, I agree, it's a business there isn't and really shouldn't be much loyalty coming from either side. My problem is with your insinuation that people here have trouble coming to grips with this truth. QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 03:38 PM) Because we dumped him. If he showed the same loyalty, and left on his own, we'd be talking Maggs level hate. /just sayin' This is just flatout wrong and is my major point of contention. Your comparing Dye to Magglio is just silly and your insinuation that the people on here could not accept it if dye were to leave for more money or ask for a trade (for good reason) just feels wrong to me seeing as how there's no history or evidence to back this up.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 04:01 PM) What players, how about every Boras client? I'm sorry, I thought I've read here that certain players were greedy, asking too much money, not caring about what their contract does for their team, etc. I stand corrected if no one can recall players being taken to task for their salary demands. You're making blanket statements without any real evidence. No one rips a player for being represented by Boras, people hate Boras because he's a dirty mother f***er who loves to bend the rules and because of this the Sox refuse to sign his clients and this leads to a great deal of frustration throughout the fanbase but nobody who I would call a knowledgeable sports fan rips on a player because he looks to make as much money as possible. I can't remember anyone hating on Crede because he was represented by Boras, there was a lot of frustration but no actual animosity towards him due to his representation. Hell Derek Lowe is represented by Boras and is looking for $16M a year, there's more than a few people on this board who have mentioned Lowe as a possible target of the Sox's this offseason and now that it looks like there's next to no chance of him coming here i don't see anyone going after Lowe, calling him greedy and cursing his name.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 03:52 PM) What I am saying (again) is we rip players who leave via free agency, call them greedy, etc. I think they deserve the exact same understanding we give the team when they trade someone. So while no one here is mourning the loss of Dye, neither should we get pissed when a player leaves on their own. You know the same feeling both ways. Tit for Tat. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I don't know how many different ways I can say it. This shows there are no loyalties in baseball. So fans should not expect loyalty from players and not teams. It's all a business. What players? Magglio? Who else? The extenuating circumstances surrounding the Ordonez ordeal make it moot. It had nothing to do with him going elsewhere for more money, I think most people can wrap their minds around that and except it, it's the way the whole situation played out. And even after all that bulls*** I still don't think nearly as many people harbor ill-will towards Magglio as you make you seem.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 02:46 PM) Well, cause I don't think anyone will give that to him. As a 3 yr, 33 million dollar player, I wouldn't mind him in RF. Of course, I'd rather just keep Dye out there, but it seems like that might not happen. His range is already all but gone, I can't imagine him finding it again at the age of 36 or 37 and I don't have much interest in a low .800 OPS 36+ year old, $11M+ DH. Plus he'll cost you a first round pick to sign.

The Royals designated Tyler Lumsden for assignment

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 02:40 PM) He's asking the Cubs for 3 yrs, 45 mil So in what world is he a good fit for the Sox? He's an awful fit.

Abreu was worse than Dye in RF last year, he's a type A free agent and he's looking for a 3 year deal worth $10M+ a season.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) Carl Crawford is ridiculously overrated by so many people. Not only that, but won't he be a FA in 2 years? He's pretty expensive too. '09: $8.25M '10: $10M TO

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Nov 20, 2008 -> 11:16 PM) Kris Versteeg is a monster. Him, Doughty, and Ballard (sp?) have been the 3 best rookies so far. Awesome 1-0-1 start to the road trip. Let's get 1 in Toronto on Saturday, eh? They're 2-0-0, they won the shootout in Phoenix.