Kalapse

Can you name me a single ace pitcher (he's going to be making ~$100M that's Ace money) as downright crazy and classless as Carlos Zambrano? The man has no appreciation for the game, his opponent or his teammates. I really don't want to through $18-$20M a year at a person like him.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:05 PM) I would make two big FA signings for 2008: Mark Buehrle and Carlos Zambrano. Although this would go against the White Sox' long standing policy for pitchers, they are both still young and so far have proven to be durable workhorses, and you build championships around starting pitching. This would allow the Sox to trade Contreras and have a starting rotation of Buehrle, Zambrano, Garland, Danks, and Vazquez. Looks good to me. On the offensive side build the lineup around Thome DH fourth and Konerko 1B fifth. Keep Fields at 3B and A.J. at Catcher. The other five positions are what Kenny will have to fill with younger players obtained in trades or maybe mid tier FA's like Aaron Rowand. In the pen, build around Jenks and Logan. Maybe a couple of our highly touted starting pitching prospects can come up and help in the pen or be used in trades to obtain bullpen help along with position players needed. It's going to be an interesting offseason. Yes Zambrano has proven his durability with the 6-7 MPH drop in velocity he's experiencing this season.

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 08:12 PM) C- AJP 1B- Konerko 2B- Betemit SS- Khalil Greene 3B- Crede/Fields LF- Jenkins CF- Ichiro RF- Sweeney DH- Thome SP- Buerhle (preferably)/Contreras SP- Garland SP- Vazquez SP- Danks SP- Billingsley CL- Jenks Relievers- ??? I do believe this is what DBAH0 had for next season and it's incredibly similar to my plan so I like it.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 07:53 PM) Well, obviously, we'll have a better idea after he gets more playing time this season. But from what I've seen thus far, Terrero runs well, has a great arm, has a lot of pop in his bat, can draw a walk, and takes good routes to the ball. He won't keep up his .900 OPS he has right now, but if he can keep it above .800, I'll take my chances with him next season. In all fairness Luis Terrero has not proven he an take a walk, in 52 plate appearances he's drawn 3 walks, his OBP is inflated by the 4 HBP he's endured. I wouldn't mind him as the starting CF/RF next year either mind you.

I actually wouldn't hate Jenkins he'd bring an .800+ OPS bat with the potential for .900 and some excellent defense in LF. He'd probably be fairly cheap and a decent stopgap. All in all I like what you have there DBAH0

I have more of a problem with the 4th inning double switch from yesterday than I do anything he did today.

Here's a snippet about Cano from Baseball Prospectus. I happen to agree with the final paragraph entirely. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfilter...ed\x3drss2 QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 07:20 PM) I don't think you should rate someone's speed by how many bases they attempt to steal. Just because Cano doesn't steal a lot doesn't mean he's not fast but rather that he is just ins't good at getting reads and jumps. I think he is pretty fast guy as he does have 4 triples this season. That's how I'll judge his speed. Then what do you say of his 1 triple from last season?

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 06:59 PM) Yes, I remember before the season everybody going ape s*** because Boone made it over Sisco and Aardsma. Sisco, along with the entire bullpen for the most part, was good the first 5 weeks. Nobody was clamoring for Boone when those guys were pitching well. That's all I'm saying. Sisco wasn't all that great in April, he had some serious control problems and wasn't being used during late game situations because he couldn't be trusted. He was allowing 2 walks or hits per inning pitched throughout most of the month. I really had no use for the guy.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 06:27 PM) It's easy to say that now. Nobody was thinking about BL in April. You mean when Sisco was showing serious control problems and Boone was putting up damn good numbers at AAA? Yes, people were definitely calling for Boone. Hell, remember the outrage when Sisco made the team over Boone? Logan should have made the team out of Spring Training, he earned it and now he's having some amazing performances vs left handed hitters.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:54 PM) You're making that statement based on 16 attempts over 2 1/2 seasons? I'm not saying you're wrong, but there isn't much of a sample size to draw from. He attempted to steal a grand total of 19 bases over the final 5 years minor league career on top of that.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:51 PM) He good Who woulda thunk that one of the best LOOGYs in the game couldn't even crack the opening day roster of a team with the worst pen in baseball? Crazy.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) Soriano's 241 walks in 4136 PA isn't very impressive either, yet it hasn't exaxtly derailed his career. When Robinson Cano becomes a 40/40 guy let me know.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:23 PM) Barry Bonds' OBP was around .330 for his first two years in the majors and he didn't get anywhere near .400 until his fifth season. Soriano is another high-slugging/low-walk guy and he seems to be enjoying a pretty good major-league career. Young, cocky players are often undisciplined at the plate. Barry Bonds had an IsoD (OBP - BA) of 107 as a rookie, 68 his second year, 85 his 3rd year and 103 his 4th year. Robinson Cano's have been 23, 23 and 38 over the past 3 years. Barry Bonds had a low OBP because his batting average was below .260, he was still drawing a whole lot of walks but it wasn't showing because he wasn't hitting for particularly good contact. Cano has drawn a grand total of 45 walks in his career (1312 PA), he has no plate discipline what so ever and that's not a skill easily learned. Hell, Freddy Sanchez hit .344 last season so it can be done by a moderately talented ball player.

I've always been a fan of Iguchi's but even I can admit the guy has lost all of his range at second and now his arm has become suspect with the way he's been lobbing the ball around the infield this season.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) personally i think paulie is a helluva player as well granted not as good as Cabrera but on our club who is better than Paulie? We trade him we've got jack s*** for power. and yeah fine he's 31 and they're younger but all of them ARE vets who can lead in a clubhouse. Jim Thome is a much better offensive player than Paul Konerko. I never advocated getting rid of Konerko but Miguel Cabrera was left on the roster because he's f***ing great, he's not much of a leader.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) i would hate it if paulie were traded. i think you have to keep some veteran presence ala Florida - they didnt trade EVERYONE, they left Willis and Cabrera to be leaders. I think it would help this club to continue to have a leader. Miguel Cabrera is 24, Dontrelle Willis is 25 and Paul Konerko is 31. Cabrera is one of the 5 best hitters in the game and Willis is one of the better lefties going right now, Konerko is a pretty good power hitting first baseman. Just a little bit different don't you think? Perhaps Cabrera and Willis were left on the roster because they're incredibly good?

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:49 PM) We are bringing them up now? Where? Danks did not come from our system. McCarthy blew ass. We would still have the same pitching prospects as before - except Danks I believe. I don't see the difference between how it is now an how it would be after the trade. And the Extra Innings deal would hurt the Sox financially? How so? The EI deal would possibly help the Sox financially is what he's getting at, I thought that was fairly obvious. I don't see why it would be put toward payroll though, JR has always said the one thing that affects payroll is attendance and this has played out over the years.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:38 PM) You just said neither team would. I told you why the Sox are clueless if they wouldn't. Their pattern is to spend 4 million more than the previous year? Really? You know this how? How do you know the White Sox's finances? If they are willing to go after AROD on multiple occassions why do you think they couldn't affor 12M? Jesus you're snippy today. If you really think the Sox are going to raise payroll by $25M after this year then you're out of your mind. Their pattern is to put all the money they make through attendance back into the payroll, this year's attendance will probably turn out to be moderately higher than last year hence a $4-$5M decrease in overall team payroll. If they're going to raise payroll to $120M like you seem to be suggesting then they're going into red and dipping into their own pockets, something JR and crew have never done. You can go ahead and assume I'm wrong since I'm not the cooperate accountant but you're going to be very disappointed when they spend somewhere between $90-$100M next year.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:33 PM) For what Cabrera would cost in terms of players and then in his contract (is he 2 years away from free agency), he's not worth it to our organization. Also, Cabrera is an absolutely horrific defender, and I have questions about his attitude/body. He's a great hitter, but I think our assets could be used better elsewhere. He made $7.4M in his first year of arbitration, he's looking at $12M+ next year and even more in '09. The Sox can't afford it.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:30 PM) Then the Sox are clueless. A top 50 prospect? WHO THE HELL CARES! I am getting Miguel Cabrera in return. And the "clusterf***" of ok young talent? WHO THE HELL CARES! I am getting Miguel Cabrera! What does it matter if the Marlins wouldn't even be willing to make that deal? I don't see why they'd want those players in exchange for Cabrera when they could probably get some elite talent from a team on the west coast.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:28 PM) Where does the payroll stand now? Around $96M. At the most I see the Sox spending $100M next year, that's their pattern.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) That is your problem - you think Buehrle is gone. I don't see it that way. I think they can re-sign Buehrle. Then they just need a 5th starter. Go get a mediocre veteran for the 5th spot like they did in 2005 with El Duque. Bring up a rookie - that tall drink of water - Russell or even Floyd. With a lineup of Ichiro, Thome, Konerko, Cabrera, Crede, AJ, Rowand they should be able to score more runs and they should be a better fielding team. That payroll is well over $110M a year, that's not going to happen.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) I would try it. I would give Fields up for him - Danks - Massett - Sweeney. I would throw them all in the deal. I would trade Dye for Billingsley and whatever and throw them in them deal as well. Billingsley, Fields, Danks, Masset, and Sweeney won't get it done? You're offering 1 top 50 prospect in baseball and a clusterf*** of ok young talent. No one in that group is anywhere near a top talent. I don't think either of the Sox or Marlins would make that deal to be honest.

The Sox don't have the young talent required to deal for him. He's one of the 5 best hitters in the game and is what 24 years old? Not happening. QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:15 PM) \ You're right. I definitely want to try to get a guy that is almost 24 and is hitting .253 and has a career 10 ML home runs instead of trying to get someone that is 24 and has a career 118 ML HRs and is considered one of the best hitters in baseball. I want to settle for someone that is striving to be mediocre. Of course that is the one I am talking about. Why try to go out and get something that is actually worth anything? Because Miguel Cabrera is out of the Sox price (talent) range where as Melky Cabrera would be fairly easy to acquire.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) I'd like to see us explore cheaper options before taking on that big of a contract, but believe me, I wouldn't be upset if we signed him. Especially considering the influx of Japanese money that would come in, which would lessen the financial burden for the organization. He's pretty much the only decent leadoff hitter on the free agent market this offseason. I'm sick of cheap quick fixes, they haven't worked the past 2 years and I don't see anyone that would work in '08 either.