southsideirish71

QUOTE(soxpride77 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 04:39 PM) Looking at Crawfords splits, he doesn't have great numbers leading off anyway. How unbelievable would that be to have the top two base stealers at the top of the order, followed up by our power at 3-4-5? It would be unbelievable. Hopefully KW can find a way to make this all happen, and still hold onto Santana AND McCarthy in the process. With our lineup you dont need speed guys. You need someone on base period. Give me a line drive with a high OBP over a speed guy, who's OBP is mirrored with his BA and doesnt walk a lot. We need guys to get on, and we need our thumpers to drive them in. And that doesnt mean try and hit homers all the time. Just drive the ball. If we do that we are fine. I still think Mack in LF and leading off over Pods and we win a crapload more games last year than having him out there to be an out.

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 04:27 PM) Curious. Could the Sox ask for a player to be named later that is contingent upon if Freddie signs an extension or resigns with the Angels next off season? Might a deal be worked out with Freddie renegotiating his contract before the trade? Freddie would be far more valuable to the Angels if they knew he was going be with them for more than one year. KW was willing to give up quite a bit for Freddie because he had a hunch that he would stick around. Also, if hypothetically rumors do come true, who would be the better CF Figgins or Crawford and who would lead off? Anyone know how to make a hot stove smile? I have seen some deals where they have a window to negotiate with the player and the deal is contingent on that. But maybe they just need fastball Freddy for this year and this year only. They could have a stud ready to go in AAA, and just dont want to have a hole in their rotation. They could see if his fastball rebounds before resigning him. I dont think Freddy is the key to this deal.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 03:53 PM) Figgins is worthless. His OBP sucks, and he has no power. In the 2005 ALCS, did he even get on base more than once?? Pods, as bad as he is, played circles around him in 2005. As for Ervin Santana, people are acting like he's Francisco Liriano without elbow troubles. Sure, he has a live arm. And he's relatively cheap because he's just starting out. But is he going to be a dominant starter? Is he a #1 guy? Will he ever be a #1 guy? I don't think so. As bad as Freddie Garcia was last year, he still managed to win 17 games, and lose 9. (Santana was 16-8.) Sure, I'd take Santana for Garcia straight up because of the age difference (though I know the Angels wouldn't make that deal), but I don't think Santana will be that much better of a pitcher over the next 3-4 years, frankly. I think Freddy's arm is going to come back, and he's got enough guile that he will remain a winning pitcher into his late 30's. Mark it down. But the deal buster would be dumping Joe Crede at this point. You might as well add a half run to the team ERA if we eliminate the vacuum man from 3B next year. Especially if you are talking about replacing him with Josh Fields or Chone Figgins. If you want Joe Crede, you'd have to offer me more than Ervin Santana. We don't have our first WS trophy in 89 years if we don't have Joe Crede at 3B. So far, I haven't seen any deals that make a lot of sense for the Sox. We really need better offensive production from LF, SS, and CF, plus a solidified bullpen, and, most important of all, better production from our starters. But it is not easy to fix any of those issues. Which starters do you keep, and which do you trade? Should we give up on Brian Anderson after only one year -- when he was rushed too soon to begin with? Should we abandon Juan Uribe, whose defense is stellar, and his tremendous SS power?? Is there a good option in LF that costs less than $10 million/year? You are the one who wants to consistantly stay with what we have, throw the bones and hope for the best. So We Willie Harris got into scoring position for the series clinching run. Should we have kept him, what about Geoff Blumm. If you want Joe to stay, give him a call and tell him to fire boras and take a decent offer. As far as resigning these people, LOL. How much money do you think we have. We are already at over 100 million dollars. Lets put this in whats going to happen. Freddy and his fastball will still get a lot of money no matter how bad he is. Crap is getting 8 mill a year this offseason. Joe Crede will run towards FA, like the titanic sailed towards the iceberg. Nothing will change it. He will get jackpot prices. And Mr. Boras doesnt believe in a hometown discount. So kiss him goodbye. See you. How much will Jermaine Dye get next year. Gooch is gone after this year. So again, how are we keeping these guys all together. Oh yeah, we trade some people who are near the end of their contract so we can infuse the team with new talent. This is how the WS was won in the first place. We traded Carlos Lee, whom Scotty Pods couldnt hold his jock with the bat. Magglio who is a nice hitter, he gone. Jose Valentstatche is also gone. This is called turnover. It happens.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 03:02 PM) I don't see where this is a bad deal for the Angels. We should not be asking what more we can throw in, we should be looking for more from the Angels. Chone Figgins and Ervin Santana is not enough for Joe Crede and Freddy Garcia. I am sorry, it just isn't. The Angels desperately need a 3rd baseman. Joe Crede is a proven all around talent at 3rd base and plays at a very high level. Freddy Garcia is a proven workhorse pitcher and big game pitcher. If they throw in anything less than Brandon Wood or Erik Aybar then this deal is not getting done for me. At the very least they must give us Brandon Wood/Erik Aybar, Chone Figgins, and Ervin Santana for Joe Crede and Ervin Santana. If not, I walk away. So basically we are either jacking up payroll to 135 million to support our aging expensive pitching staff and boras clients, or we are losing Crede and getting a draft pick. I think you overestimate our players value.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 02:18 PM) Jeesh, where did you get the lcd? As for Stoneman, I am confused. I understand he loves his prospects. So what you mean is he would have no problem dealing Figgins and keeping Aybar, correct? So I guess the answer is you believe it would be easier and cheaper to acquire Santana and Figgins rather than Santana and Aybar? Microcenter in Westmont, 37inch Olevia LCD 1080i. They had 42inchers for 799. Stoneman is very attached to his prospects. With their system they could of made some big splashes at the trade deadline and chose not to, because he really likes to keep his system intact. Figgins makes a few bucks and is more expendable with Matthews signed. Matthews can hit leadoff. Now the question is, will Ozzie want to have KW keep Pods in LF and put Chone in CF so he can have his mini-mee speed lineup and put Tad further down the lineup. Who knows. It could also spell that Pods gets spun off for something.

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) oh, then you punch him in the face. I waited for hours in the cold for a 37 inch LCD for $499. It on my wall, and making fun of him here > getting kicked out of line and the satisfaction of beating the flub fan. QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 02:03 PM) I wonder what it would take from our side to make this happen? I wonder if they would consider dealing Santana/Aybar rarther than Figgins? Or if something such as Crede/Garcia/Phillips for Santana/Figgins? Stoneman will have no problem ditching Figgins over Aybar. Stoneman loves his prospects and has a hard time getting rid of them. He has the anti-KW philosophy on it.

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:45 PM) You should have put on your Cubs Suck shirt Actually it was cold as hell outside waiting for the store to open up, but when we went in I did take my coat off and did proudly display my "Hey Cub Fans" shirt with the middle finger with the world series ring on the middle finger. 2 hours of hearing attendance crap, socio-economic garbage, and just plain poo that the usual warped cub fan spews.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) "Reports are saying that the White Sox are in talks with the Angels for some young pitching.....Speaking of pitching, the cubs reportedly will land Jason Schmidt!!! The cubs quest for a ring is almost complete" Rock you kid and all, but I was in a line for Black Friday last week and some dolt in a cubs hat was giving me a 2 hour diatribe on how this is their year due to Soriano alone. I had to control myself not to choke him out.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:32 PM) Here we go... And of course Moiph took all off 30 seconds to spin this into cub talk. LOL Odd maybe that writer should have Stoneman read soxtalk. Because he didnt see the big steal for the Angels like everyone does here. Stoneman might balk because they dont want to give up young pitching. Doesnt he realize that he needs to throw in at least 2 top end prospects for Freddy alone. I seriously hope this gets done. This would be the best option for young starting pitching coming back. I like him better than Danks or Pelfrey.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:21 PM) I understand that. And I realize they have Nick Adenhart ready to step in in a few years as well. But it seems to me that they have had an awful lot of position players who were highly touted prospects begin to fade. McPherson, Kotchman, and now Wood struck out 150 times last year and they think he isn't as far along as they thought he was. I don't know, it just seems like they should be dealing some of their position prospects if they really need a bat this badly, not Ervin Santana... How long does it take for a position player to learn how to hit in the majors? Their guys are good, and they have great prospects, but how old is Vlad and Garrett. What is their window. The angels rely on getting a lead, getting to their bullpen and getting the game over. Take a good look at their lineup, and tell me what they are missing. That would be real protection for Vlad. To beat the Angels, you basically pitch around Vlad. Garret provides some of that, but he is hurt a lot, and is older. They could go right with vlad, left with garret, and then right with Crede. Thats not a bad 3-4-5 punch right there. They can score more for their good pitching staff. They are offensive starved and need that more than anything.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:20 PM) I think his name comes up for the same reason McCarthy's name comes up...other teams want him. We're not down on BMac as far as I can tell, and they're not down on Santana, it's just that if the Halos want to get a Tejada or a Crawford, or the White Sox want to rent a Soriano, that's what the other teams want. Young, cheap arms with high ceilings. How many of them come around in baseball.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:15 PM) Well why don't the Angels maintain their greatness that way then? Take a good look at the Angels minor league system and then rethink it. They won 89 games last year in a down year where they were shifting young players and playing them quite a bit.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:14 PM) Santana would be locked up a minimum for the next several years. I dont know if people realize how young he really is. Not to mention he probably would have the 2nd best stuff out of anyone in our rotation. He is sure to improve. With BMAC and Santana you have 2 good top of the rotation guys sewn up for the next several years at a minimum price. That my friends is how great teams maintain their greatness. buuuttt buuuttt how will we survive without Freddy Fastball and the Rally Crede.....

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:11 PM) im not sure, he mentioned hed be on in the 1 oclock hour, but i havent heard anything about it since The only update so far is moronic people calling up talking about how Rex Grossman is not buff, or tall based on how they stood close to him when they were stalking him.

For all of the lets just keep crede people. Tell Crede to do the following and he will be safe from trade. 1.) Fire Scott Boras as his agent. The most important and will start the rest of the chips to fall. 2.) Sign a fair, but not rich long term deal. 3.) Agree to minor recommended back surgery. Remember as much as Joe has given us lip services about how he would never let his agent get in the way, he already is. The Whitesox want him to get some surgery on his back, he doesnt want to on the recommendation of his agent. He could sign a deal, however his agent wants to burn his arbitration years and get his man to jackpotland. You can either negotiate a fair deal, like Kong did where he chose less money and less years to be here. Or you can sign Boras as your agent and decide that you want to buy have the state of Missouri. Joe will be a very very rich man, and his family will never have a want in the world. I cant blame him, but lets stop acting as a group that KW is either trying to be cheap, or is being foolish. KW is a pretty smart GM.

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:45 PM) Santana is not worth it. Sometimes the best trade is the one that's not made. What exactly is worth it then, if a young hard throwing pitcher that has been considered one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. Take a gander at our system, and then take a gander at the contract status of our starters. How many pitchers will we either have to pay a kings ransom for, or replace. If anyone thinks that Crede is going to give us a hometown discount with Boras as his agent, then I suggest a little less of the hard stuff during the day.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:11 PM) Sorry if this was posted before... http://www.nbc4.tv/news/10414500/detail.html I mean I can't even really comment on this...it's just plain despicable. After they are done with the trial and get the guilty, just dig a hole in the back and throw her in, cover her up and forget that she existed. How can anyone do this to a child is beyond me.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 12:03 PM) IMO young pitching would have to be the centerpiece of any Tampa deal. They won't take a veteran pitcher making a ton of money. They would want Bmac or Santana so they could control him for 3-4 years at a reasonable rate. MB, Javy, JG, FG, or the Count would not interest them at all. A 3rd team would have to be added How about this, why in the name of god would we send young cheap pitching with the current climate for a bat. Pitching is much harder to obtain and develop than any player no matter how special. We have had numerous teams that had monster beasts who could kill you 5 ways to sunday with the bat, then we trotted out poop and stink for pitching and watch the twins run off with the division. If we pick up Santana, I am for keeping him. And start to build a top flight rotation. We won in 2005 based on a terrible offense for most of the season, they got hot in the playoffs and all, and lights out pitching and a good pen. Take a look at the teams for the most part that have won it all over the last 6 years. How many of them had a great offense and so so pitching. Keep the arms and build around that. If we wanted the OF strength over pitching we would of never have shipped off Young.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 11:48 AM) that brings up and interesting point. Who would we rather deal for Crawford if TB would take either, BMAC or Santana? I would rather keep Bmac and Santana, and then move another starting pitcher for the prospects needed to make the Crawford deal. The AL Central, the toughest divison in baseball, is basically a freakin arms race. Whomever has the best pitching wins.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 11:42 AM) Too early?????? There are already b****ing about deals Kenny HASN'T MADE YET, so this seems about right. Tony remember the immortal soxtalk rule, if you havent made at least 2 blockbuster deals by Turkey day the offseason is a failure. Maybe someone can ask KW again at soxfest. So now that 2007 is over, how are we going to get better for 2008.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 10:27 AM) Shouldn't this read Crede OR Garcia for Santana AND Figgins? This is a preposterous rumor. Everyone mentions Ervin Santana's name, but I don't salivate over him. 4.28 ERA and 1.23 WHIP. That ranked him 43rd in baseball last year. Figgins is worthless. Crede can't walk for another couple of years. We need his production for the time being. I wouldn't trade him until Josh Fields is ready to take over, if that's what it comes to. Because waiting until the last year of a contract is the worst time to trade a player. Who wants to give up choice grade A talent for someone that has Boras as their agent and is near the finish line for FA. The Angels would like to get Joe in now, so they could work with him and Boras on a long term deal. That is the only way they would give up a Santana. You dont salivate over him, however it seems that every single GM in baseball would snap him up in an instant. And his 4.28 ERA would of looked nice last year with Freddy fastball and the gang throwing lob league all season long. Ervin is a young guy, he will get better. Freddy may get worse, Freddy is definately going to be more expensive. We arent the frickin yankees people. We have a 100 mill payroll, and a lot of money tied up in a few guys. Its better to spread the wealth around and make the team better as a whole for a long time. KW wants to win, but he wants to win every single year. Replacing our rotation with young cheap talent that can win for a long time like the Braves seems like the blueprint he is going for.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 10:33 AM) Joe Crede ALONE is worth more than Santana and Figgins. Why do we always sell our own players so short on Soxtalk?? I believe that its more of we over value our own talent pool than anything on here. Joe Crede is due for a record payday that will make the Konerko deal seem like pennies on the dollar. Remember who his agent is. So the just sit by and let the clock tick isnt going to work. So you either trade him now when his value is the highest, or we stand pat and then pick up a draft pick in a few years. If you are going to lose him, you might as well get something good for him. Santana has pitched in the majors, unlike a lot of the prospects that have been bantered about here. He has a hell of a live arm, and some great upside. He is the type of arm just about every team in the majors would want on there team. And yet people on here think that Freddy and his 86mph fastball, and one more year on his contract are worth more than Santana and Figgins by himself. Somewhere in the middle of our overvaluing of or prospects and talent, and where the Angels fans overvalue their prospects and talent, lies the truth.

QUOTE(Soxy @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 09:39 AM) Jesse Jackson calls for boycott of Seinfeld dvds. Maybe Seinfield should boycott Jesse.

People keep quoting 2005 as a reason not to get rid of player A. Eject the WS DVD already. We won in 2005 because of an overwhelming starting pitching. We lost last year because we became the homer only, and medicore pitching team of previous years. So if this type of deal goes through we will start to assemble some young strong pitching. The same formula that did wonders for championship winning in 05. Pitching wins in this league. Not Joe, not Aaron, or insert favorite player here. Count, Santana, Garland and Bmac looks like a nice foresome for years. Count and Santana miss a lot of bats and give us a dominant 1-2 punch. And the only reason I didnt include Buerhle, for all of the Buerhle fans, is that he is a FA after this year. On paper for many a year our offense should of won us many a championship. Then after getting his ass handed to him, KW wised up and started to assemble pitching. Lets see what he can do with that.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 08:40 PM) He had shoulder tendenitis before in ST, and injured his hamstring during his rehab. The Angels also don't want him playing winter ball, and despites his wishes, he did not pitch in the WBC. I'm not trying to say he should be pitching for the Cubs, but let's not pencil him in for a Cy Young and 22 wins just yet. He isn't Johan Santana anymore. I am not saying he is an injury risk or will be pain free for his career, but I wouldnt take too much weight into restrictions that organizations put on young power arms with offseason work, and extra work that can take a long term affect on their arms. Some teams put restrictions on breaking pitches in the minors that skews their numbers even more. Danks is one that they dont let him throw his power curve too much, for fear of stress on his young arm.