southsideirish71

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Dec 11, 2006 -> 09:11 AM) This was HUGE TOPIC on the baseball show yesterday on 670. It was leaked out late last week that the SOX almost had a deal to trade Garland, but it was confirmed on the show that the SOX were THISCLOSE to dealing him for prospects with the Astros, but the Astros backed out at the last second. The only thing I could think, which is was that sinking feeling I got after the Phil Rogers article last week. The SOX may truly be on a "rebuilding" plan in regards to their pitching staff, with no extensions being handed out altogether. "chatter" in the MLB suggests the SOX would very much like to deal him right now .................. Im not very happy about this recent turn-of-events I find it ironic that a person who has dedicated many a closed thread on conspiracy theories linked to a certain newspaper quotes a columnist from that newspaper. I dont understand the issue that everyone has with this. We could A pay our pitchers 60-70 mill as a unit. Or we could do an in place rebuild where we rotate a guy into the rotation every year and have a nice long run like the Braves.

4 year old suspended for improper touching The aide who accused the 4 year old of this needs to be fired for being a moron. Who wants this type of moron around their children.

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QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 08:50 PM) The sad part is some team will probably give it to him. They are on the north side, and the trib will praise it like its the best move yet. And then tell everyone we are raising the white flag.

I am not attacking this thread, but threads in the nature of the reactionary bulls*** due to reading a few Tribune paid writers and some shock jocks on the radio. These constant threads on how either A.) Reinsdorf is cheap(with a very large and expensive payroll) B.) The world is ending because we ditched a pitcher who had a mid 4 ERA and had a mid 80s fastball for most of the year whom gave up 32 dongs and are now including our number 1 pitching prospect that everyone has been clamoring for to jump into the rotation C.) Worry about similiar moves that will make us competitive for the next 4 to 5 years. These are all dumb threads. Reading a dumb article in a paper by a guy who gets paid by the cubs, and then repeating his "concerns" like a parrot is not original. His employer just paid a fortune for poo and crap and is calling it a number 2 starter. Now think about that for a second. What would you say, if we signed Ted "I am not all that good" Lilly and made him our number 2 starter for about 40 mill for 4 years. I dont think that the same people would be applauding and yelling words of encouragement to our management team. I dont want to overpay for Butter Parque, I dont want a number 1 starter of Felix Diaz in a few years because we let everyone of our starters go to FA without getting something back. And paying pitchers whom most of this board b****ed and moaned about how this guy isnt an ace, and how this guy is declining, a s***load is dumb. You know it would be nice if we had a young good rotation like the braves did, and spent our money smart on good position players. We are not the freakin Marlins but we are not the Yankees. We need to spend our money, and spend we do, on good decisions. People freaking b****ed in the first 2 months about all of the money we give Garland, and now the same people are b****ing that if we trade him we will never recover.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:01 PM) **************************** ''It was our intention to talk about extensions with every one of [the current starting pitchers] because they're all young, they're all durable and I don't think -- at one point in time -- outside of the business question,'' Williams said. ''What's going on now in the market, it's not realistic for us to go that route. We've got to make an adjustment.'' ''What we would be talking about, honestly, are numbers and years I'm not comfortable with,'' Williams said of negotiating with his pitchers. ************************** It doesn't sound like extensions were ever discussed based upon the above quotes - they just didn't like the way the market was headed, and decided to retool the rotation. Of course, I understand teams are going to target Garland first because of his contract status, but, from the White Sox perspective, they can still get a lot for Buerhle, should they choose to move him. Explain why we would get a lot for a one year rental. Whatever team trades for Mark will get him for 30 starts, and then he is off to FA. Unless they believe they can sign him. But again they will have to pay top dollar.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:50 PM) It doesn't sound like the White Sox are even interested in offering extensions though from what Williams says. I think they have already made their mind up that they need to rebuild the starting pitching. That's why I was surprised to hear Garland could be traded today with 2 seasons to go at a very reasonable salary- if you're going to move Buerhle, at least you can argue that he'll cost too much, but they can still have a pretty good top 4 for next season with Contreras, Garland, Vasquez, McCarthy, and then let 2 of their top prospects (Floyd and the prospect acquired for Buerhle) fight it out for the #5 spot. Personally, I would keep Buerhle for next season, try to win it next season, and if doesn't work out, then that's that. Thats not what was said. They did discuss extensions, however the years and amounts made the sox feel uncomfortable, so they traded him. Of course Garland was rumored. He is the most attractive. People are not willing to give up their sure fire number one guys in the minors for a one year rental. 1.) Jon Garland - young, signed for multiple years at a good rate, sinkerballer 2.) Vazquez - talented, has a year and an arbitration year left. 3.) the rest

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:48 PM) SSI, don't forget the raise for Walker. How about a generous severance package.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:43 PM) Whatever happened to raising the payroll after last season ? Didn't we finish the season at about $100 million ? With the attendance, TV Ratings, and new collective bargaining agreement that has seemed to give other teams $$$$ to burn, why can't we raise our payroll ? How much of a raise will Dye get from his 6 million dollar deal next year. How much of a raise would of Garcia got. How much of a raise would Buerhle get. Add in some raises in arbitration battles. Add in eventually Joe Crede. How much f***ing money do you think we have to wrap up in a few players.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:40 PM) I'd say his comments about Buerhle don't bode well for his future here. Is Buerhle next to go ? If Buerhle wants to sign a deal similiar to Garland or the Count he will stay. If he want a 5 year somewhere between Zito and Meche then he will be gone.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:34 PM) He didn't need to say anything about Buehrle, but Reinsdorf has shown the past couple of years he is willing to open his wallet when need be, and letting his GM make decisions in the best interest of the team. Add in the fact that as attendance has gone up, he's been willing to spend more, as well as the fact he and the Sox are involved in numerous programs to help others, he's done a pretty fair job so far. That and a World Championship. Heads you got it all wrong, Reinsdorf is just being cheap. he should of just overpaid for an 86mph pitcher maybe in the 60-75 million dollar range. that would prove it. So to all of our goofy fans who think that Jerry is just being cheap. Do you really advocate giving 60 to 70 million dollars over 5 years to Freddy and Buerhle. And if the answer is yes, please check the reality hat at the door. Now for those who want to give a 5 year deal to Buerhle. Which Buerhle is going to pitch next year the dominant guy, or the guy who got rocked over and over last year.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:16 PM) I've never liked Jerry Reinsdorf. Never will. I would hate an owner who has brought more championships to one town than any other owner in Chicago. I can see why you dont like him.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:05 PM) Is Floyd the next Kip Wells? I say immediately make him a reliever. We will make sure we get your instructions to Coop. He appreciates your input.

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:12 PM) Im glad Garcia is gone, because he was a loser in the clubhouse. I was so sick of that s*** of him showing up his teammates. I thought you ran over to nsbb.com to done your new cubs hat.

QUOTE(joeynach @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:01 PM) This Garcia trade and all his talk about not retaining any of his pitchers and not being comfortable with the years and dollars players are getting is really weird. It seems KW is being rather spiteful towards the landscape of baseball these days. No I know the sox dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers and they dont hand out big sum contracts, which I agree with, but there is no need for this childish spiteful firesale of some sorts. The market changes all th time relax. Yes the sox probably wont ever be in the mix for top free agents with anything like 5 Years 70 Mil to 6 Years 100 Mil to any players ever and thats ok. KW is just one of 30 other GM's that has to deal with this ridicolous market, but that doesn't mean we have to act like the pirates. We still have a higher payroll and market. There is no need to panic KW giving pitchers 9-11 Mil is OK, especially cuz we all know pitching is everyting. He has stated time and time again he never again wants to be in that 5th starter situation. Well the only way he got out of it was to put a solid proven higher paid starter in that slot. Getting young arms that are unproven and projects isn't a gurantee to a solid pitching rotation, its a gamble. And at the moment a gamble that this team just does not need to take. Gill I barely can pitch Meche just got a 5 year 55 to 60 million dollar deal. How much praytell do you think that Freddy will get. We had 2 pitchers who were going to become FAs at the end of this year, another next year and a few after that. Whom are you putting in the rotation to replace them when you dont give them all 5 year 75 and up for their services.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:02 PM) That's about right. (I dunno about the Hirsh part, didn't read that much.) They definitely weren't ecstatic, though. Both sides having misgivings, why, you'd almost think the deal was about even... One of my favorite posts on that thread.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:56 PM) And I think White Sox fans know Garcia better than they do. Sure, he steps up and pitches in big games...but the Phillies have to get to a big game first. Sure he learned how to pitch without his best stuff...but who's to say that his best stuff comes back? Or that the new pitch he learned is going to work in the National League. Gavin Floyd isn't great, but he's ONLY 24. Shoot, I didn't know anything at 24 and remember the old adage about a change of scenery. It's not like Phillies fans are easy to please...just ask Santa. I wonder how much they are going to love Freddy when they play a bad team at home and he gives up 7 runs in 5 innings and they steal like 6 bases off of him. A nice touch would be if Rowand were to misplay a ball, and then we could have Freddy throwing up his arms in disgust showing him up.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:51 PM) Wells isn't worth 6/120. Given the fact that this organization isn't spend-happy, if they were to give Wells that much money, it would hamstring us from acquiring other decent players for the next 6 years (or lead us essentially give away good players with significant salaries). So you dont want to spend money, and you dont like the prospects we get. What would you like to see the sox do to get better.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:38 PM) Ok. The ones who have posted on this board and the ones I've talked to are overjoyed. I would be too. And when Freddy Garcia is on another team in 08 and they didnt make the playoffs. Are they just as overjoyed.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:39 AM) Freddy won 17 games. BMac will have to have one helluva first full year as a starter to top that. Russ Ortiz won 21 games a few years back also. What happened to him in his next large contract.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:23 AM) Common sense. I love how everyone hated the trade when it was announced, and then 12 hours later, many have convinced themselves that it was a good deal, or at least the best possible deal KW could have gotten. This trade fits into KW's and JR's new philosophy to get younger and cheaper. Rebuild immediately. I think he liked this trade offer because it involved cheap prospects that help for the future, but not for the upcoming season -- not because it was the trade offer that involved the most talent. I didnt hate the deal. I hated going to the cell last year with Garcia making a bunch of starts on my 13 game plan, and constantly watch out for flying homers hitting the poor spectators in the OF. I hated watching the radar gun thinking it was broke, Nope Eric Bedard 94 mph, Freddy 86mph.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:08 AM) I would have traded Garcia for some player or players who would have helped the team now. A pitcher of Garcia's quality who is as inexpensive as he is in 2007 is worth a hell of a lot in this market. KW could and should have moved Garcia for more than prospects. He could have easily gotten an OF upgrade and a decent prospect. Who is this player that you would of traded for. How much value does a 1 year rental offer a team.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:59 AM) He certainly looks like he's building for the future more than for the present. The Garcia deal sure as hell doesn't make us better in 2007. It makes us worse. So put on your GM hat, what would of you done. And if you talk about signing Garcia for a long term deal, take the hat off because you are fired.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:44 AM) You are confident that more SP trades aren't happening? The Sox were at least working on a deal to trade Garland for prospects. Do you think KW is done shopping SP's? I don't. The one prospect is named Hirsch who already pitched a bit last year, and was scheduled to be the Astro 5th starter this year. He is one of the best young pitchers in baseball, has a blazing fastball and is 6'8 and 250 pounds. Lets stop acting like this is just some conspiracy to ruin the sox. KW probably wants to win more than you do. If he is making a trade its because he believes it makes us better.

QUOTE(S720 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:24 AM) Southsideirish71, do you think Kenny should get more than Floyd and Gonzalez for Garcia? I am not knocking the trade of Garcia. I am terribly disappointed of the unfair-valued return. When everyone knows that the White Sox are sitting pretty with six starting pitchers, all we need to do is wait for few more weeks for Zito to be gone to some team. After Zito is gone, we will have a much better leverage to trade Garcia than it is now. Personally, I feel Kenny is jumping the gun here!!! You realize that Zito is a Boras client, and that means that boras shops his players and parades them one at a time to get the max exposure on him. Zito is going to wait a bit to get the max dollar he can get. Meanwhile teams will make trades and pick up players so they can cover their asses. Not many teams are just going all in on Zito and will leave a huge hole in their rotation. And teams that would are named the Yankees. Do you really want a Yankee prospect not named Hughes.