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Was Kris Bryant the best player on the Cubs playing multiple positions ? Ben Zobrist on TB ? Was not Javy Baez a 2nd baseman until the Cubs had problems with Addison Russell ? Do the Sox want to win ? If so positional versatility is an option to be explored. Do you think his hitting is tied to what position he plays? Do you know for sure he wouldn't be a good OFer ? Do you know for sure that because of one season each at 2 different positions that he is really better at 3rd base than 2nd base ? Is it feasible that being a bad hitter last year affected his fielding at 2nd base ?

Look MoanforYoan knows I have come down on him hard also for being overly negative but that hasn't stopped us from having decent baseball discussions. ANd yes the market has been shitty for FA's lately so you are right there. There's really no telling who get's what offers at this time. But Moan is far from the only one on the board who keeps thinking FA's are going to be more expensive than they end up being. MLBTR runs a whole website talking about who is going to get what and from who and every year people buy into it.

What he wants is besides the point. The main point was to explore positional versatilty more like TB does do to create payroll flexibility. For a board that prides itself on modern thinking that idea is used to great advantage by a team like TB . If the Sox keep crying about future payroll obligations whenever they miss out on a FA then start acting more like a mid to small market team and do something that's been around since the moneyball era to diversify how the payroll is used.

Thank you . I think Abreu belongs at DH but multiple data points as you say suggest he is not bad. In support of my 5 yrs of 100 RBI's stance I also brought up the sabermetric clutch stat which is WPA and leveraged index, a stat none of those guys seem to know anything about or choose to ignore by making witty ( and i use that term loosely) comments making fun of RBI's by comparing them to antiquated medical things. It's just the last resort when you can't support your case with your baseball knowledge. Baseball discussion good. Being a jerk bad.

Cheaper is not necessarily bad when a guy like Dickerson has an OPS+ of 125. It's not ideal that he doesn't have a lot of AB's but if he did and still had that 125 OPS + then he probably wouldn't be cheap,The guy has a career .502 Slg. and .829 OPS and 119 OPS+. In his 200 AB's this year with 2 teams he has a .300 BA .341 OBP .555 Slg. .896 OPS and 128 OPS+ .

I love these ideas Why ? Because I have been saying Rendon is a target if we just move Moncada back to 2nd base which is where he always wanted to be anyway considering Cano was his idol. I never thought of Moncada playing RF but I like it. There's your left handed power hitting RF'er. I know most people will hate the idea but one aspect of exploring market inefficiencies that doesn't get a lot of play with the Sox and the board doesn't seem to like it either is POSITIONAL VERSATILITY. One of the best organizations in baseball Tampa Bay uses it a lot and so do the Cubs. The Sox, not so much. But if the Sox are going to act like a mid or even small market team then they need to act more like the Tampa Bay Rays. If they are always going to cry poor when they fail to sign FA's then start acting like you know how to use positional versatility to create payroll flexibility.

Lol OK I'll try another narrative. How bout this one ? The Sox seem to come in 2nd an awful lot when they supposedly offer big money to FA's. Machado and Tanaka come to mind . Sorry if I can't remember more. You of all people shouldn't be arguing to have faith in the FO . Even Hahn said he gets it why people don't trust the Sox front office doing things they don't usually do.

Oh interesting . Does he have decent speed for a 1st baseman ?

I was pretty high on Bumgarner before his 2nd half resurgence but I'm starting to agree that I'd be mildly shocked if he left the NL.

That is true but if its just for a year and fairly inexpensive maybe he wouldn't be so bad out there . There is still the hope the Sox might do something creative to solve RF. Maybe someone unexpected gets non tendered. I can see someone like Brett Phillps getting non tendered by KC but he'd be like a LH Engel all field no hit .

Right and if we get some good surprises like Rodon and Dunning coming back fairly strong from injury some time after the ASB it might give us some more bullpen or starting options toward the end of the year. Heck who knows maybe some good things happen and all of a sudden Burdi and Hansen show signs of getting better. Or any number of bull pen guys in the minors become ready for prime time.

In the OF Ozuna is having a really good year so he could be a guy who makes a difference. But if Robert is good from the get go that solves CF for a long time. Sox just might do a plug and play with RF and hope some minor leaguers come on strong next year or maybe do a trade involving minor leaguers for someone we don't expect. This is kind of why I'm OK with Dickerson . His OPS+ is just as good as Ozuna's is just with less plate appearances and is LH which fits the Sox lineup better.

I think I actually heard or read that Dickerson has been fine as a defender this year if that means anything considering he hasn't played a lot. But he hit pretty well with Pittsburgh and is LH. I know I mention Gennett a lot and he's played even less than Dickerson but his numbers were pretty good when he was healthy with Cincy and is also LH . Might be a decent depth piece rather than a full time OF since he really hasn't played out there ever consistently but I'm sure he could play 1st, 2nd, 3rd , DH and OF if need be and there's always the possibility he comes back strong next year and plays 2nd base full time if Madrigal falters.

I was just mentioning him a one of the bigger names out there. I have no idea who the Sox are likely to target. I'd actually be fine with Cory Dickerson instead of the big name OF's and Scooter Gennett as a bounce back guy in w/e capacity they would choose to play him.

It's more about the fact that pitching now will probably be the biggest need and Reinsdorf has always been particular frugal with handing out more than 3 years to a pitcher. I actually think they will sign positions players over pitchers or the pitchers just might be the kind you spend 3/$50M on. Now who that might be I don't know. Maybe he gets crazy and gives a 4/75 to a pitcher and a 3/60.

There's always JD Martinez if he opts out. Red Sox are going to need pitching very badly and they are already having trouble with the luxury tax. Martinez walking might be doing them a favor.

I suppose you could count Robert and Abreu but they were not MLB Free Agents. So yes , I'd say Albert Belle . He did move to Nashville but that was more for himself and his family as opposed to some move to get away from the Sox . Hell I moved to California 35+years ago but might be a bigger Sox fan now than I ever was. But at least you are using his quote as your signature where he acknowledges the Sox might screw it up.

Thanks. I like the actual discussion of this because many good posters on opposing sides are involved. What really shocks me though is @Chicago White Sox trusting the FO again. He was more invested emotionally in the Machado signing than anyone and really expected it to happen. When it didn't he was crushed, upset w/e you want to call it and here he is getting on that same roller coaster ride again for this off season and once again expecting good things .

That's what I say, next year wont be that year and they are making sure of that. That's my problem with it. Yes with good fortune they could make the playoffs but as Branch Rickey once said : Luck is the residue of design. On one hand we expect the Sox to spend all this money on good players Why? because they are nearing the end of the rebuild and most of the core pieces are in place . Some are coming off injury , some will be up after the service time gives the Sox the extra year. If luck truly is the residue of design , they are not designing to win next year thereby lessening the chances that good fortune happens. If they designed it to increase the chances of good fortune then Robert and Madrigal would've been up already to increase the odds of good fortune, After all Robert will probably be a better player than anyone the Sox have now in the OF so why not get the acclimation period (if there is one) out of the way now ? Samefor Madrigal If there is a period of adjustment then again those few games that everyone thinks won't make a difference become a lot more games that they may not be playing at their peaks, Again poor design lessening the chance of good for @ChiSox59 says the question of Madrigal coming up really wasn't even discussed until a few weeks ago but that is because the Sox promoted him to AAA 3 weeks after Robert and promoting him to the Sox would be a rush job. I think both he and Robert have proven enough in their 1st full years to have been called up. Yes they have both jumped multiple levels and are different kinds of hitters but both play good+ defense , both are good+ base runners with good+ speed and most likely both bring more to the table then anyone the Sox currently have at their positions. All I am saying is, to paraphrase Branch Rickey, is you make your own luck and I prefer the luck produced by design rather than failure to act. If I had faith the FO would all of a sudden become magically good I'd be right there with @ChiSox59 saying keep them down And you all know that lack of faith is really warranted by failures in almost all phases of trying to draft, develop, scout talent accurately,sign free agents and win in the past. I really do hope your faith is rewarded and my lack of faith was just spitting into the wind.

It's not contrarian it's more like when have the Sox ever done what we expect them to do ? You and @Chicago White Sox expect them to sign some really good guys but if that doesn't happen what then ? Me and Jack really hope they sign some good guys too that allow the Sox to aim for the playoffs as early as next year. We just want to maximize the strength of the team when the window o[ens and not lessen its strength by guys like Madrigal and Robert who when they do come up next uyear might have an adjustment period as bad as Moncada and as inconsistent as Eloy. Maybe 2020 isn't a playoff year but it had better be in 2021-2023 before Gio and Yo become free agents. Maybe those are your 2 best guys going forward and it would be a big blow to lose them We cannot count on extending them both or even one of them. One of Kopech or Cease really have to reach close to their ceilings to replace him but it would be much better to have all 3 firing on all cylinders together. That's not likely to happen next year. It would also be really nice if Moncada Eloy and Robert can also fire on all cylinders together at some point along with GIo, Kopech and Cease. Could it happen . yes but how likely is it and also that other draft picks develop enough to help and Reinsdorf all of a sudden says signing anyone to big contracts isn't bad business anymore ? Waves of talent get smaller and smaller as the years progress and the Sox get worse draft picks and the talent leaves via free agency while the Sox still don't draft well , develop well , use all their international money or sign expensive free agent contracts. I suppose this off season will tell most of us all we need to know going forward but I wouldn't expect things to go as some of you expect. And I don't mean it will be better than you expect.

I think they'd rather have him go right back to being a starter . It's hard to say what they will do but he is a starting pitcher and the sooner they get him back in that groove the better.

Well Jack I think it's you either let Kopech start in AAA and gain the service time or shut him down at the end of the year which might happen anyway. I think it's highly unlikely they get 150 innings from him. His 1st year back after so much time off matters a lot more in that respect than playing the service time games with Robert and Madrigal. With Kopech it's a lot more understandable.

He'll probably still be around for all of those players except Vaughn unless something totally unexpected happens.

I have no qualms with the sabremetric community. As I said before I think they are very useful and interesting . My problem is with those who blindly use them because it is the more modern way to approach things by those who post often here and use them without fully understanding them or even keeping up with the latest information. Just by being an avid baseball fan I know about the clutch stat that I brought up but only one poster said it was probably WPA and others didn't know what I was talking about. Now I know not a lot of guys have read that post that I mentioned it but if you are going to suggest that studies have shown there is no such things as clutch then you better bring your A game to support it.

Well he's not the main culprit ,we all know who is. The guy who mocks RBI's as a useful stat to poster Thad Bosley. So I bring up this clutch stat which for some reason an old guy like me can find but the sabre guys can't and you say Abreu is 11th using it so I'm sure R883 will now disparage that particular sabre stat or just ignore it.