elrockinMT

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 10:58 PM) I'm sure our players like Ozzie, but I don't know if they respond to his tactics very well anymore. You'll see quotes by Konerko saying "that's just Ozzie being Ozzie". I know what you are saying, but we heard that before when this team was winning. People laughed at it then. Winning is better then losing for everyone's attitude isn't it?!

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 11:10 PM) It wasn't a comment on whether or not he's good at his job, just that the "his players like him" standard is a bad one. I think the liking him goes along with respect, support, etc. That would be my point

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 11:36 PM) You can clearly tell, the captain doesn't listen to him anymore. When Ozzie went beserk a few weeks back after a loss, PK basically implied he knows how and when to tune him out as it's Ozzie being Ozzie. Anytime a captain implies such, it means he at the very least, has lost his biggest backer. ElRockin, do you believe managers, coaches, etc. affect how a team performs? Nitetrain, I think I do. If a manager is negative his layers may very well emulate that attitude. In the case of our players I think they also see the positive of Ozzie and his backing them up. Ozzie doesn't throw his players under the bus. Maybe he should from time to time, but he doesn't. I have picked up what I think is support from the likes of PK and MB for Ozzie and the staff.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 09:13 PM) But that doesn't mean he isn't bad at his job. I know there is debate there.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) Seeing that I've never seen a team publicly state that about a manager, Ozzie would be here until he retired. I am only talking Ozzie here. He seems to have the respect of his players

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 08:48 PM) That is utterly ridiculous. By that standard basically no coaches or managers would ever be fired. I was asked my opinion and I gave it. Sorry it doesn't match yours. It isn't ridiculous IMO but I could say all this clamoring and such to blame someone is a bit old and getting ridiculous in the extremes people want to go. The manager always gets the blame and gets fired when the players fail to perform. I guess it is easier to fire a manager then a player making $16M a year. Doesn't mean it's right and doesn't mean it will make anyone play better either with the manager getting fired. But, that seems to be the only answer folks have ' FIRE OZZIE." If you make mention of a possible trade or of a player that should be singled out and you then hear all kinds of reasons why that can't be done. All this has become is a gigantic gripe session with fingers getting pointed everywhere. But, I still haven't heard how this idea of firing the manager or the hitting coach or the first base coach is going to help the team win. I think Ozzie is moving from protecting the players mode to lighting a fire under some people as it should be. He had called out Rios and that's one of the guys performing well below expectations. I refuse to believe this team can't get back on track during the second half. We have the talent to go on a winning streak. We are maybe one good stretch away from being on top. That's how I see it. If others don't fine, but don't call the positive comments ridiculous, etc, etc. I won't deny things have been bad and we find some new way to lose almost every day it seems. But, we have some darn good talent of this team and they have won before. They can motivate each other and I am loking forward to seeing them drive on

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 07:55 PM) You didn't answer his question. What needs to happen for you to support a manager (particularly Ozzie) being fired? To hear his players say they lost faith in him as the manager

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 07:15 PM) So you think he should manage here indefinitely? I mean what scenario could you see him getting fired over if this isn't it? I believe that too much emphasis is being placed on the manager being responsible for the poor performance of people like Rios and Dunn and injuries to players like Peavy. It is player performance that is the problem not the manager (but that's my opinion). We might need a shake up with a trade or two and I most certainly would like to have Viciedo up with the team, but he needs a place to play. DH or the OF and heck maybe even 3B again. I think we have players playing out of position and too many at one. Teahan, Morel and Vizquel at 3B and then Teahan vying for time in LF and RF and 1B. Versatility is great, but a player who was a full-time guy is now relegated to a part time role. Hard to keep sharp. Dunn playing as a DH and he has never done that before. And of course it seems everyone was slumping at the same time except Konerko and maybe AJP. I know the clamor is for some kind of change, but change could come with players hitting, pitching and running and fielding like they are supposed to and not firing the manager. We are only 5 out (somehow) and we are in this divisional race.

I think Ozzie is good for the game and good for the Sox. I do not support his being fired. I do not believe he is a quitter either. Now it could be that he doesn't want to be a part of this organization anymore and in that case I would bet the Marlins beckon.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 03:20 AM) Just who posted here.. hi8is - C- (posting more, which I like, but getting married severely brings the grade down from a B-) fathom- B (not posting as much as in years past, though some of that is because of the baby, but still on of my personal favorite posters) J4L- A- (incredible year as far as getting into certain ST poster's skin, but with actual facts to back them up as well as post count. Another favorite poster of mine. Should be at the top of the soxtalk poster of year awards for 2011) The Ginger Kid- C (very underrated poster. Doesn't stand out like the others here, but doesn't kill the I.Q. of the site like others do either) FlySox87- N/A (still a rookie) Swingandalongonetoleft- C- (only post when necessarily, which is good. Still another down year from what his potential should truly be for ST.) jeffro2525- N/A (don't know enough about this poster to give a grade) South Side Fireworks Man- C- (same reason as Swingandalongonetoleft) chisoxt- C (same as Swingandalongonetoleft and South Side Fireworks Man, though IMO, he has far better potential with his post, so I gave him a touch higher grade) oldsox- N/A (same as jeffro2525) qwerty- D (absolutely a pathetic year for one of ST's best posters. Went from crushing every poster with ridiculously witty post, to absolutely crushing posters with ridiculously witty pics. Good stuff, but leave that for the ill-informed. He will get the Derek Jeter treatment with the ST awards though, as well as Kalapse) OilCan- B- (though has a low post count, his post actually stand out alot with solid reasoning. Pretty good year for him. Might be a Phil Humber fluke, but this is the "what have you done for me lately" world) GreenSox- N/A (" ") pittshoganerkoff- B- (actually the same reasoning as OilCan) greg775- C (I was actually back and forth with Greg's grade, so I put him in the middle. Not the optimistic senile he's been in year's past, and now has alot of pessimistic post... but are senile. He pisses off alot of posters for alot of reasons to name, but he mush be doing something right and a poster or two have admitted he was their favorite. Is also a regular here, so that helps balance it all out. All in all, one of those posters who you either hate him or love him) chw42- A- (just exploded into the scene this year. Though not a favorite poster of mine [yet] I'll admit, but I love his saber-love post, and is very knowledgeable here. Has future mod potential. Another guy who could be a dark horse for the ST poster of the year, and yes.. I hate those ST awards as you know) Baron- N/A (still a rookie) winninguglyin83- C (great poster on ST for many years, but just has you wanting more in posts. One of those toolsy posters who should be better than what he is, but is solid all around so he gets the solid grade) BigEdWalsh- B- (the old man just keeps on trucking. Has had a much better year than in years past, hence the higher grade) elrockinMT- C (has actually had a very good year in posting, but isn't standing out as much in those post whether that is good or bad. Fits more in the greg mode for me, but not with the same ability to agitate, but more consistent in pessimism over the years, not a flip-flopper) The other posters haven't posted yet so there you go. Loved this

Things turn around for the Sox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 12:56 AM) Beckham's hitting .313 his last 10 games. I saw some rips in the gamethread by a few people. I suppose he's supposed to hit .400 with 50 homers or he's a bust. Apparently so. I think we have been so centered on the bad we fail to see the life that is starting to show in some of the slow performers

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 09:43 PM) Pitchers: Brian Bruney - B- Mark Buehrle - B Jesse Crain - A- Gavin Floyd - C Philip Humber - A Edwin Jackson - D Will Ohman - C- Jake Peavy - D Chris Sale - C- Hector Santiago - A Sergio Santos - B Matt Thornton - C+ Position Players: Ramon Castro - C- A.J. Pierzynski - B Gordon Beckham - D Paul Konerko - A Brent Morel - C- Alexei Ramirez - B- Mark Teahen - C- Omar Vizquel - C Brent Lillibridge - C+ Juan Pierre - D+ Carlos Quentin - B- Alex Rios - F Adam Dunn - F Management: Ozzie - D- KW - C- Walker - F Cooper - B- Point Breakdown: A+: 3.0 A: 2.75 A-: 2.50 B+: 2.25 B: 2 B-: 1.75 C+: 1.50 C: 1.25 C-: 1 D+: .75 D: .5 D-: .25 F: 0 Total Points Possible: 87 My Total Points Awarded: 37.75 Overall 2011 White Sox Mid-Season Grade - 47% - F You must be grading on a curve

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 01:51 AM) Peavy's arm is like falling off, thanks to the fact that we didn't give him extended rest after he pitched in relief (which was assinine). Now we aren't going to push him to the very end to give him extended rest? Why? Why? Why? I am thinking it is a loss of control because of the groin injury and not the relief role. He can't extend and push the way he needs to with those legs and lower body

We have a second half to play. It can still be turned around. So let's not be burning everyone at the stake please

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 11:14 PM) Just put Viceido in as manager and then he can make de focking lineups. That's funny right there now But, I think you wil see some players leaving before Ozzie Guillen and that's the way it should be

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 07:37 PM) and Alex gets a hit! We have turned the corner

I am prepared to hear how "he kept us off balance" "we just couldn't get it going" "No excuise hhe just bedat us" "all you can do is play the next game"

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) You must be Mrs. Rios in camouflage. If I was Mrs Rios I would have been slapping the daylights of Alex

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 07:30 PM) OMG, a mother f***ing check swing "excuse me" slash through the infield. f*** this f***ing Twins team so f***ing much. Pieces of s***. So god damn annoying to watch. I almost hope they win the division just so they can be f***ing ass raped by the Yankees again. f***ing garbage f***ing slap hitters. It simply amazes me the things that go wrong for the Sox and every mistake and every excuse me hit the other teams get is just magnified

It's about time he made the pitching move

Rios is tradeable in my opinion-might not get much in return but maybe somebody could use him

2 hits and none out for Twins. Ozzie has got to get him out of there now

I picked up on a quote in an article today that KW is ready to make major changes in PLAYERS and maybe the win yesterday and if we win today that might simmer down. But, now we have more of the same ineptness by the offense. I am going to say we still have some game to play, but this looks pretty bad. Maybe this all-star break will see some changes

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 07:10 PM) Get ready to pull him Ozzie! You should have a full bullpen, and it's beyond obvious he has nothing...anymore. That relief outing has just killed his arm. I don't know about the relief outing, but he hasn't been all that sharp lately And with our putrid offense this could be bad