sircaffey

The rotation is like last year's bullpen. Extremely volatile.

It's one thing to say that you are confident in your guys. It's another thing to say everyone in baseball thinks of these guys as top-of-the-rotation guys. He did the same thing with Crede in saying he's one of the best 3B in the league and that plenty of people would love to have him. You don't need to say stupid s*** like this. You aren't fooling anyone Kenny.

QUOTE(Frank the Tank 35 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) Bay news: Bay was bothered by a nagging knee injury all year. Clearly the Sox aren't packing their bags in. They don't stand a chance with their current roster construction but are unwilling to admit defeat and trade away their veterans. Might as well load up and find a way to get Bay in the lineup if he's going to come that cheap. Adding Bay and a leadoff hitter like Figgins would make the lineup legit. From those rumors, it appears PIT is looking for Major League ready young talent. We don't have much of that. Fields would have to be part of it, imo, to get something done. Besides him, we don't have anyone close to Gutierrez on the offensive side unless Kenny acquire Quentin for a potential Bay deal.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 10:25 PM) If 2nd helpings is still on this team, he will be the starting 2nd baseman. There will be a "competition" that will wind up with Uribe winning it. Hawk will talk about how Uribe can carry a team, and how Uribe and Cabrera would be the bestest infield in the history of baseball. Ozzie will talk about a "new and refocused" Profundo who will once again swing at balls that bounce it. If he is on the team come ST, he will start. I would be completely shocked if Richar starts if Uribe is still here. On the same thought, if Crede is here Ozzie will park Fields on the bench or they will send him down to get him solid ABs. We will go for it, only to fail and cost our kids an opportunity to get better. Its a vicious circle of craptitude. So true.

QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 07:08 PM) Lets break it down: Starters: DET- Verlander Bonderman Rogers Willis Robertson CLE- Sabathia Carmona Westbrook Byrd Lee DET has the potential to be better, with Ver pretty close to Sabathia, and Carmona had a fantastic season but I dont see him having the same success that he did. Bonderman can be a force, so basically I give a very slight edge to the Indians Offense: DET wins this, unless Hafner comes back with a monster season, but even then I think DET is better Bullpen: Borowski or Jones? You chose, when Zumaya comes back DET will once again have a good bullpen, not great but good, the Indians with the addition of the Japanese reliever could be better, but Im not to impressed with their guys. So I think the rotations and bullpens are close, and the offense of DET is better, giving DET the win. THis is my opinion, and I believe they are the favorites. You aren't impressed with what could be the best tandem of relievers in the league? Betancourt and Perez are shutdown. If Kobayashi is anything like he was in Japan, Cleveland's bullpen is one of the best in the league. I'm baffled why Borowski is still the closer though, as I think there are 4 better pitchers in the pen.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 03:18 PM) Yeah we do, we just don't have many. The White Sox have enough to get Bedard, it just wouldn't be the best idea in the world. It depends on what other teams are offering. If Homer Bailey is involved for the Reds, then we could not obtain Bedard. In theory, we could put together a package of prospects that is similar in value, but we lack anything top notch like Bailey, Hughes, Kershaw, etc. So if someone like that is offered, chances are we can not put together a package for Bedard.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:50 PM) Makes sense. I really think Lance gets a rough rep for his pedestrian stuff, he looked MUCH better than Gallagher did in the majors albeit tiny sample sizes Gallagher 14.2 8.59 ERA 3HR 2.11 WHIP 5k Broadway 10.1 IP 0.87 ERA 0HR .97 WHIP 14k Do you really see Broadway anything more than a 5th SP or swing man though? He going to have to overachieve greatly to be anything better, IMO.

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:47 PM) I'd still rather have our rotation than theirs. Contreras might have as much potential to turn it around as Willis does, depending on what is wrong with willis. They only had one person pitch 200 innings last year. Now they might have two in Willis. Kenny Rogers might be done for. Robertson has been crap every year but one in his career. The rookie might pitch well, if he does, chances are he will still have plenty of rough outings. I don't know why everyone thinks they are some kind of powerhouse thats a lock for the playoffs. They have a ton of question marks in their pitching staff. 1. Curtis Granderson 2. Carlos Guillen 3. Miguel Cabrera 4. Magglio Ordonez 5. Gary Sheffield 6. Edgar Renteria 7. Placido Polanco 8. Ivan Rodriguez 9. Jacque Jones

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:44 PM) You think hes ranked higher than Poreda and Broadway? Broadway most definitely. Poreda is close. Depends on whether the O's believe he'll stick in the rotation or end up in the bullpen.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:34 PM) Then the Gallagher reports cannot be true, because that kid is not a stud pitcher in any way, shape, or form. If they want us to blow them away in an offer, Gio will trump a majority of what the cubs are willing to offer. Quick edit: Gallagher isnt ANYWHERE on the top 50 prospects list. The cubs #1 guy is ranked 30 while Gio is ranked #24. Gallagher is their 5th ranked spect, does he even fall in the top 100? No. Gallagher will not be in the top 100 at least on BA's list. BA puts his ceiling at a #3 SP and compares him to Jon Lieber. The problem is, he's better than anyone besides Gio/DLS in our system. So either the O's take a lesser prospect than Gallagher and an extra prospect, or we have to give up Gio/DLS.

Willis is an upgrade for Detroit. That's the bottom line.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:26 PM) Yup. I'd think a package of Richar, Broadway and Sweeney? Would that equal about what the cubs are offering? I know Bal wants OF'ers. I dont know all that much about our prospect rankings this year. There's gotta be more interest for Roberts than just the Chicago teams. Our 5-10 prospects are the some of the worst 5-10 prospects in the league. I believe BA rated us 28th. Baltimore should be able to get at least 1 impact prospect for Roberts.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:23 PM) Why are the Sox under pressure to rebuild right now? They can easily start to trade guys during the season if they really want to rebuild... This is the time when there are the most interested teams, and highest asking prices. You go into the season, and the number of teams looking for an OF or DH or 1B drop significantly. Not to mention this is the time when most teams think they can "compete". You get into the season, and teams start to realize they can't compete. Much like how the Sox will find out.

Willis isn't great but he's not bad. He's gonna give the Tigers a lot of stability, and I don't think they are counting on a 2005-like year again. He's a big upgrade over what he will be replacing for the Tigers. 16-18 wins, 4.25 ERA, 200+ IP, 33 GS should be a fairly good bet for Willis. You can mark him down for 3-4 wins over the Sox seeing how bad we are against LHP.

Everyone knows we are "going for it" because we think we can contend within the division. Then Detroit goes and adds one of the top 5 hitters in the majors and a good SP while we do nothing, and of course we should be viewed as losers. Our pathetic attempt at contending got more pathetic at the meetings.

A team desperate for changes led by one of the most aggressive GMs in the league does nothing, should be considered losers. Add into this that we are self proclaimed "contenders" and we are even bigger losers for A) not having done anything and B) seeing Detroit get considerably stronger. And we still are holding 2 3B and 2 SS. There is plenty of time left, but we are certainly one of the biggest losers from the meetings. Not sure why people are surprised at this notion.

QUOTE(heirdog @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 12:46 PM) Follow the thread before asking questions like this. The comment was in response to the fact we were gutting the farm for 2 yrs of Bedard and I simply said we would spin off Bedard after one year if our attempts to win it all were not successful and we wanted to rebuild in 09. Yeah I know what you said. The part I'm confused about is you thinking we can get that kind of package from the Yanks for 1 yr of Bedard, when they have been reluctant to even add Hughes for 1 yr of Santana. Not to mention Markakis if the original O's deal.

QUOTE(heirdog @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 12:43 PM) Large package of prospects for Markakis? I agree he's not a add-on but I had a pretty stacked package from the Sox so it was more about balancing the trade then adding in a Markakis. But I do not agree that Markakis will bring in the same haul as a M. Cabrera if that is what you are suggesting. Yes, large package of prospects for Markakis. Meaning, quality over quantity. If Delmon Young brings in Garza, you are talking about the same level talent for Markakis. Most likely more. We don't have a Garza-level to offer.

QUOTE(heirdog @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 12:37 PM) If it does nothing for us in 08, then you spin Bedard for stud prospects....likely the Yankees if the Red Sox get Santana. Or the Red Sox if the Yanks get him and either one if neither gets him. If we can turn Fields, Danks, DLS, Sweeney and Anderson into 1 yr of Bedard (10 more wins than Danks in 08), Markakis, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes and Horne, I am fine with that (or replace with Ellsbury, Lowrie and Lester). Are you insane? Fields/Danks/DLS/Sweeney/Anderson for 1 yr Bedard/Markakis/Cabrera/Hughes/Horne? What planet do you think this is?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 12:31 PM) Markakis is absolutely untouchable. He is not available, period, end of discussion. Yeah, he's not being "added in." If anything, it'll take another large package of prospects for him. He's certainly not an add-on.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 12:09 PM) Yeah, and he created an even larger hole in the middle of the rotation. JMO, but Uribe at SS is a lesser evil than Floyd in the rotation. Was it worth paying $4.5 million for a utility player that can't hit? Not sure about that. Don't get me wrong, I like Cabrera a lot. But I don't see how adding him and losing Jon makes the Sox a better team. And Jon is going to be worth a lot more than Cabrera in June and July. I'm right there with you. People say it we are a better team, but how? Have we not seen what an incomplete rotation is like? Do we remember Mr. Danny Wright? THE Gary Glover, Jon Rauch, Jim Parque, Rocky Biddle, and all that other crap that was shuffled through the rotation from 2001-2004? I'd much rather have a hole in the offense. Afterall, we won the World Series with one. We haven't won s*** without a complete rotation.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) I don't think Cabrera will lead off... If Rowand comes back i think KW should make a strong push at Brian Roberts to be our leadoff/2B... Outbid the Cubs and then i think our team will be set.. . What do you guys think it will take to get him?? If the Cubs are offering Gallagher and Murton, i think we can counter with Danks, Owens, and Uribe who can replace Tejada once they trade him... I can't see Danks being part of a Roberts deal. Considering the "win now" mode that we are in, I think you'd see Gio or DLS go before Danks. I don't think Owens or Uribe has much trade value for the O's. If they are trading one of their premiere players, they don't want our trash.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) I think it's a close call. Would you rather have Jones at $18 million a year for only 2 years with the hope he rebounds offensively while still playing great defense ? OR Would you rather have Aaron Rowand for 4 years at $13 million a season knowing that last year was probably a career year ? I'd rather take a short-term shot a Jones. Give me Jones as well.

Quentin should be playing everyday from the getgo until the end. No hasbeen OF or never willbe OF should take ABs away from him. WE ARE NOT COMPETING THIS YEAR!!!! Sweet mercy I can't believe someone could be so thickheaded as KW seems to be.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 12:29 AM) I don't believe that that offer was ever made. And personally (not that it matters), I don't feel very comfortable with making any deal that includes both Danks and Gio in it. Along with Fields, you're talking about giving away what, 5.5 years of major league service time at the league minimum, and then a few more years at well-below market prices as they reach their first years of arbitration? It's just not worth it to me for one player, not with our current financial situation anyways. If we were the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, Mets or Angels, maybe, but not with the way things look for us right now. I guess as high as I'd go would be Fields/Danks/Sweeney/Broadway. And if that doesn't get it done, so be it. I'd much rather go out and sign Andruw Jones and keep the prospects than give away so much young pitching. With you there...If there is to be any hope of competing in 3 years and beyond, we have to keep Fields, Gio, DLS, etc. If not, then they better damn well rebuild in 2 seasons.