bmags

If last year was an anomaly in Hahns tenure I wouldn't mention it, but that type of return has been all too common (despite even striking gold with McCann).

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Yeah as I went through these I thought that Eloy definitely won the memories this year even if Moncada was just always dominant and Gio was amazing. TA's game against the tigers and the royals batflip leading to the fight were certainly memorable too. But, 2019 belongs to eloy the way 2018 belonged to Palka - so it's not a performance thing just he had a lot of opportunities and took advantage.

Built largely may have been not the right way to think of it, but last year the twins spent roughly 38 million on Gonzalez, Cron, Cruz, Perez, Parker and Schoop. That got them 9.1 fWAR combined. The white sox spent 38 million on Alonso, Colome, Herrera, Nova, McCann, Jay, Banuelos, Osich, and Santana (i'm actually not sure how to count santanas) They got 3.1 fWAR combined For similar price, they received 3x as much production out of their offseason additions. So as we lower our sights to add to this team through just money, I really wonder how much people can expect this management team to nab through injury gambles and depth plays.

Sell the team * *to an owner that runs a team like I would like and keeps team in chicago

I look at how the twins were able to foster a major offseason improvement largely through free agency on a minimal budget. It was probably an outlier free agency example, not many are as successful. But I genuinely wonder, with the sox just now setting up group, if the sox actually have the infrastructure to extract enough value from their money when discussing spreading it around as much as people are talking about here. So if money is to be the cure-all for the sox to get over the top I'd rather place my bets on some surer things than hoping this group finds the next odorizzi.

Mookie Betts career wRC+ is just shy of semien's career year wRC+. The wild card this year saw a team win 92 games and sit at home. Billy beane did very well on the Samardjiza trade, but it has very few lessons for acquiring an actual superstar.

This is absolutely true but many of the contending teams, especially in NL, don't have wonderful farms so I do wonder what a package would even be.

I would make the 2015 trade for samardjiza today for mookie betts single year even if you granted me the foresight of knowing what would happen to them.

They have not won a world series despite their efforts, I think they'd be willing to pay quite a bit for those few extra wins from a player like betts.

You want to compare mookie betts to jeff samardjiza, todd frazier, melky cabrera, david robertson.

He makes us better for a year, which is valuable, and it lets us negotiate his record-breaking deal the white sox should surely be willing to give in the offseason. The idea that the sox may not be willing to go after betts as a free agent is geniunely ridiculous, and that should be the focus of why this would be considered a bad move!

I like this post because it at least gets at the idea that mookie betts becoming available is genuinely shocking and taking advantage of that should be heavily considered. That we have to consider the sox self-made restrictions to judge it a bad idea is an indictment on our ownership/management team. As we had done last year, though an individually large contract, in terms of total salary there is no reason this team can't afford an exceptional contract. But yes, I'd say the ideal is to just sign him next offseason. But, what if the dodgers acquire him? I don't think he gets away.

This may very well be true but the question is how often when a player is intent on testing free agency and the incumbent team is also intent on keeping them do they lose them? THe nats did not really pursue, nor the orioles. The only one that sticks out to me is the Cards with Pujols.

No, absolutely not. Hate this logic. This is what this board did from 2007-2016, where we acted like merely plugging the leaks was akin to improvement. Going from -3 WAR to 0 WAR is no where near the improvement of going from 0 WAR to 3 WAR, and is not close to going from 3 WAR to 6 WAR. Depth is great, but it's not getting elite players. Get elite players!

I don't want to diagnose a player over the internet but yeah more worried about mental health episodes than drugs.

That's scary. Hope he's okay.

Yeah, I think the question for me there is had those teams still pursued in free agency (which I do not believe the nationals did in earnest) what would have happened if they kept those deals as a starting point. I think Harper would have been a national for instance. Machado - I don't know. Orioles were a mess.

Well the $430 is key but yeah I'd do like a 10-12 year/435-440 absolutely.

I don't think this is true. From Betts I'm sure one of the driving parts of this is also respect. Both machado and harper had numbers when they went to FA last year. Machado wanted to hit 300 mill. Harper wanted to beat Stanton. Those were driving aspects of the way their deals were structured just to beat it. If the sox (which they wont) said to betts they were going to give him the largest contract ever handed out I don't think he hits free agency. And even if he did I don't think it would take long for him to come back. But they will not do that. I do think it would be worth it to trade and then lock him up long term to a very expensive deal.

Ok but we can't bank on that any more than we can signing top talent for market price.

No, pretty explicitly said that in the first post.

I think you should expect him to hit free agency but also I would say my posture would definitely be "I'm adamant on hitting free agency" in the years leading up to free agency.

Yes, and I want to know what is actually available from that.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/teammates-prepare-life-without-betts-we-dont-think-theyre-going-be-able-afford-mookie If the red sox are really going to wave the white flag on betts, they will likely trade him this offseason. Betts has a year remaining. I assume he will try free agency. And yet, and yet. After trout and arenado signed extensions and the other extensions that followed, I have to wonder if the number hits the right point whether it should be assumed betts gets to FA. And for me mookie is a guy you say how high for. But that's with payroll. UInlike when we talked of trading for machado, next year could legitimately be a winning team with betts immediately. How much is that cost of a year? With the availability of second baseman - madrigal is definitely preferable. But Vaughn is also just a 1b, and the yankees got an .850 ops dh for basically nothing. The elephant in the room of course is the white sox ownership. Hypothetically, i'd part with some pieces that we expect to be on a winning sox team for the year of betts + hope of signing him long term. But he will break records on the deal or come close. He should not get a home town discount. And when that hangs over it...it would be impossible to judge if they suddenly traded for him. There would be too much uncertainty that they will have judged his market correctly and will inevitably stick to their number and be bewildered when he signs elsewhere. Anyway, mookie betts is great.