BrandoFan

Yeah, but it has very little to do with the fact that Manuel was the victim of and the scapegoat for what basically amounted to an injury epidemic and Kenny's huge deal-making f***-ups. It can all be traced back to 2001. If Hurt, Boomer and Rauch are healthy and Clayton's money is spent on a pitcher...Sox probably win the division 3 straight years and have a big payroll in 2004. There is certainly no Ritchie, White or Koch trade because the team has other options and doesn't have to penny-pinch.......It's like that movie Sliding Doors where events unforld favorably in a parallel universe.

Turning point of the Manuel Era (after the triumphant 2000): 1. Thomas blows out his tricepts. It essentially kills 2001 and 2002 in retrospect since it took him almost 2 years to heal. Boomer, Barcelo and Rauch injuries were pretty underrated in how much they hurt the Sox, but this one is the biggest. 2. Kip Wells is traded for Ritchie. If Hurt's and Rauch's injury didn't kill the 2002 season, this one did for sure. And once 2002 was "dead", JR wasn't gonna go on a spending spree in 2003, something that resulted in such season-killing "bargains" as White and Koch. 3. Almost 5 Mill is wasted on Cancer Clayton who not only displaces Valentin to CF which leads to hamstring problems and timing issues, but who is absolutely brutal at the plate in the 1st half while the team still had a chance. The funniest part is that in 2001, Clayton wasn't even better than Valentin at SS, with Val having a much higher RangeFactor and turning a ton more DP to make up for the extra errors..........This idiotic signing continues to haunt the Sox in 2002 where not only Clayton's 4.5 Mill could have been spent on a #2-3 pitcher, which would have negated the need to trade for Ritchie, but it also blocked Joe Crede from being called up much earlier in 2002 -- and we know what an offensive force Crede was that year. The complete cause-effect of these events has not been established yet: if say 2001 team is healthy and winning, drawing bigger crowds in the process, 2002 team has a higher payroll, probably winning the division or being in it 'til the end. Then the 2003 payroll is much higher than 50 Mill, with Sox definately winning the division....That's how you build momentum and win your fanbase back. Obviously, those forces were WAY to strong for Manuel to make a difference either way. The chips fell REALLY badly in 2001 and it snow-balled from there....

I think after 86 years....with Cubs threatening to cement their dominance.....it's the least Sox could do. I am unresonable like that.

Ignorant bulls***: Manuel is worthless. Sickening bulls***: players have a right to quit on this franchise and its starving fans under ANY circumstances.

I don't agree with a thing you said. Nothing wrong with tinkering. Whatsoever. It's laughable to blame anyone but the hitters for their woes. I am not sure how you wanted him to "handle" Ritchie, Wright, White, Koch and Bartolo.....Needless to say, he was actually smart not letting Garland pitch deep into the games because Garland falls apart in the 7th regularly, it's supported by numbers. Maybe if Judy had an actual desire to excel and an out pitch, he would have made it deep into the games on his own. But I am sure, Jerry didn't encourage him enough..... :puke As far as bullpen....He did ok for the most part. Foulke crapped out early in 2002, so he lost the closer's job. If he didn't lose his job, do you think Thomas would have started hitting in April-August all of the sudden? Or Wells-Ritchie abomination of a trade would have been reversed? Maybe Clayton would have disappeared during ST, so Jose could slide back to SS with then-dominant Crede ccould be brought up to start at 3B from ST on? Then a team would have gotten on a serious roll, easily 10-12 game improvement in May-June; Kenny Lofton and Ray Durham continue wrecking havoc on the basepaths and don't get traded. Everybody in the line-up continues to feed off one another ala in 2000, Minnesota chokes, Sox cruise...... I called for Manuel's head this time last year, but looking back at 2001-2003 Black Hole, I realize The Great Ghandini was the LEAST of Sox problems.

Funny but I distinctly remember him squeezing out 76 wins out of the 1999 squad that had a 20 Mill payroll and was missing Frank Thomas in the final 2 months. He then led a 30 Mill budget 2000 team to 95 wins - and that was while Indians still had Lofton, Robbie, Fryman, Gonzalez, Colon and Thome. If 2004 Sox squad had to play under those circumstances, they'd be lucky to win 85 games. 2001 is a wash since Sox sustained to many key injuries early in the season and didn't really have a chance. . He made a few blunders (Sullivan to Ortiz comes to mind), but it was the PLAYERS who ultimately failed in 2002 and 2003. Tinkering was just a futile attempt to jump-start these overpaid, choking bums. 2002 team was burried when Wells-for-Ritchie swap occured and Thomas couldn't regain batspeed from tricepts tear until September when it was too late. Then Kenny Lofton quit on the team in May. Red-hot Crede should have been brought up earlier, but having Clayton at SS didn't allow for it to happen. Minny got the lead and never looked back -- just as the Sox did to a more "talented" Indians team in 2000. 2003 team was basically sabotaged by the Unholy Quartet of Koch, White, Konerko and Wright. Rios and Daubach didn't help, but those 4 regulars stopped EVERY 1st half momentum dead in its tracks -- and the season was basically lost in the 1st half. You're now seeing Ozzieball in full bloom - blown off the field by Cleveland f***ing Indians.

Rauch untll the trade is ready. His shoulder surgery was so serious that there is little chance he will come close to 2000 effectiveness -- he no longer tops 92mph, his curve and slider have less bite. He is out of options, but then again so are the Sox, in a way. Worth a try. Cotts is too valuable in his current role and it would take a while to stretch him out -- unless you want a SP throwing 86-mph, that is Munoz needs to work on that change-up, he is raw and I'd rather not see him before 2005. Diaz....sorry buddy, you can't choke like that in the majors. Get back to us when you rediscover a 94mph fastball with movement and a tantalizing breaking pitch.

NASCAR may be inferior to F-1 in every way, but it's definately a sport.

I'd much rather Perez had a 6-pitch strike-out than a 1-st pitch GIDP.

The way Tigers and Tribe are swinging their bats, and we know KC can explode offensively any moment....to say nothing of Red Sox, Rangers, Angels, etc.......That eassily translates to 5.00 ERA. Then you got a health concern. And his huge salary. No, thank you.

Phillies, Cubs, Marlins, Mariners, Twins....Can all shut our hitting down with ease. Sox play like they have so far, stick a fork in them.

I don't think they quit. I think they were less talented than they/we thought. Choking didn't help, either. But if they really did quit....then they didn't quit on Manuel - they quit on Sox organization, Sox history and Sox fans. And by "quit" I mean "took a dump on".

If true.....how f***ing dare they. :puke

Do you even realize that: 1. Reed is a LH'er. 2. Had a horrible spring. 3. Has absolutely no power in friggin' Charlotte, possibly wrist injury-related. 4. After today's game has a 940 OPS against LHP - and he is ice cold right now. Rawand is the cheapest and BESY option against lefties. That's why he stays. Harris/Perez start against righties. Reed stays in AAA for the entire year and ONLY comes up when he can muster 550 Slugging.

Is that why Adkins struck out so many batters in AAA last year or a year before? Also: Adkins threw 92mph as a starter. Straight as arrow.

That's the worst part. Bad outing is one thing. Lack of true front-line pitcher talent is another.

I must say that if Thomas is gonna swing like that against lefties on the road, our offense is f***ed.

Valentin misses a long one by a foot

Carrying on Danny Wrong's Wide-Eyed Choker Legacy doesn't help either.

Good lord, Felix, a 90mph straight fastball with lousy locayion and no breaking ball to set it up won't cut it in the bigs. :puke

Rowand came to this season with an 820 OPS against LHP. In 2004, he has a 975 OPS against lefties. Cool Poppa Willie's career OPS against them is 300. Just how stupid do you think Ozzie is?

What part of 'insurence' did I not make clear? Timo has a World Series experience, is tolerable in CF, can run AND was kicking some major RHP ass in 2002. If Willie falters, he could slide in no problem. If you get rid of him, it's Ross Gload in CF time.

Yeah, but who is going to hit RHP if Willie starts sucking? Timo is mediocre but he's the kind of insurence you need in a long season. Compared to Armando Rios, whose interests include disco groping and watching pop-ups fall in, Timo is an all-star.

To justify his conreact to the Sox, Mark needs to be a 3.50 ERA pitchet in a normally weak-hitting ALC. One more dominant start, and he might just reach it. Now Loaiza has to get on track. It will also help if Diaz can pull a Zambrano.

Who said Uribe's 5-run causing f***-up against Cleveland had to be an error? And I'll put my facts up against yours any day of the week, Dick. Only I'll use more than just Fielding %. As far as annoiting Uribe the next Vizquel.....He had 27 errors the last time he played full-time SS. Not that I give a s*** about errors either way, but you know, since you wanted facts and all. And he "saved" the game against Baltimore by taking a bad route to Tejada's line-hopper which was only 2 feet to his left, so that he had to catch the ball literally behind him. He made that play look unnecessary difficult. s***, Valentin "saved" the Sox in a similar fashion quite a few times over the years. More than quite a few times in fact. He makes a good play almost every game, most of the time un-aknowledged. So what does 1 play prove when there are some 800 "reachable" balls hit in a SS's direction over the course of a 162- game season? Listen, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours. To you Manos is a worthless butcher. To me he is actually underrated, even if not exactly a GG'er. Shall we move on?