ptatc

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 09:28 PM) I for one love how he is fighting and battling in a situation he has NEVER been in before. This was his first time EVER coming out of the bullpen (at any level) and the team put him in a Fail-Fail situation. He looked like he was over-throwing his fastball with all that adreneline it is understandable. His fastball looked like it has some late life to it and that slider looked wicked. I thought that the players around him looked like they were more supportive and understanding of the situation he was brought in to, but that may just be my optimism. Hopefully this gets all the jitters and butterflies out of the way and he can go back to STARTING very soon. Thought? I would disagree on three points. 1. if the Sox want im in the majors this years it has to be in the bullpen. He can only pitch about 160 innings this year. Which means if he is a full time starter anywhere he will be done on August. Fans will go crazy if he is pitching well and they shut him down ala Strasburg. 2. While the average pitcher needs a defined role for comfort and confidence, the really good ones do not. Examples such as Sale, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and others go to the bullpen and rotation whether it be in the reagular season or post season. If Rodon is as good as people think he should be able to handle it. 3. This is a pitcher who has always had and will have command issues. He will be fine but it's not a surprise to see him struggle this way early in his career regardless of the situation.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 09:43 PM) Dumbass comment. Hewas and is more then ready. He is NOT a reliever Yes, he is for about a month.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 09:29 PM) I agreed with the decision to put him in the pen before tonight. I did not foresee our totes awesome manager putting him in a pressure situation for his major league debut in a tight game. They literally threw the game to watch Rodon pitch. If that was the goal, they should've just started him. If the goal was to acclimate him to the bigs, he shouldn't have been inserted into a pressure situation like he was tonight. It's management 101, baseball or not...you put your people in positions to succeed. I disagree they threw the game. He came 7n a game they were losing to face a lefty. Once they started scoring they might as well leave him in to get work.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 09:18 PM) And if that was the plan, why not give him a start? Now you've wasted a QS from Noesi, shattered Rodon's confidence, and lost a game to a division foe. I just don't know what to think of this org. They cannot start him and then have his innings limitin August.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 09:12 PM) What's annoying is Rodon wasn't ready yet for the majors He will always have these issues. His motion lends itself to difficult command. MLB hitters don't swing at close pitches as often. Hopefully he continues to iron it out.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 01:40 PM) Ok, my Sox negativity has hit an impasse, so I've decided to hit reset. Tonight marks the first game on their quest to be the team they SHOULD be on the field, at the plate, and on the bump. You are picking this game to start? Why don't you pick a Sale start to begin the turn around.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 12:35 PM) Uh, there's no way the Deng situation was not a colossal f***up. He could have died thanks to the Bulls. That's mostly the physicians. Way above the responsibility of any of the athletic trainers, although they were the first ones there. I thought you were talking about the the Bulls inserting her into the athletic training staff and the changes they made. The new dynamics has nothing to do with that. Besides everyone does make mistakes. Where would the Sox be without Herm. He caught alot of grief when he chipped Greg Walker's teeth out during a seizure.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 12:21 PM) Much like the Bulls' medical staff pre Jen it was a huge f***up and a crisis necessitates change. At the same time however a competent manager of any company -- Robin included -- fixes all the mistakes with a good executive decision. That the buck didn't stop with Robin is disheartening but at least they realized what a huge f***up it was rather than burying their heads in the sand. That said, much like the Bulls and injuries (sorry Luol) the damage has already been done. There was nothing wrong with Jeff and the athletic training staff. Her coming in to be the "supervisor" for a couple of the players has really made a current mess out of things. Not necessarily her fault as she was put in a difficult position but you will see changes after this season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 21, 2015 -> 10:56 AM) But I'm sure the SF Giants fans will put him in their Franchise Four. Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Bonds, Sandoval, Will Clark, Orlando Cepeda, maybe Jeff Kent (although everyone hated that dude)....Lincecum and Bumgarner will get some consideration as well. The only ones in the discussion for the Giants would be Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Cepeda, Bonds.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 04:39 PM) I really hope this is all a bluff, and he'll be in the rotation after Danks and Noesi get bombed a few more times. Wasting an entire year of Rodon's development having him pitch in the minors seems like a really bad idea, especially given how much the Sox are spending on Duke/Robertson. To me, it makes no sense to keep him in the bullpen all year while Danks and Noesi are pitching terribly. As for the idea of just bringing him in to face a tough lefty, I would be very concerned about the adjustments he would have to make in warming up to get prepared. He will get his 160 innings in. They just don't want to waste them early in the year. If they did it now they would need to shut him down in August and his off season break would be too long. The bullpen, for now, is the right way.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 04:26 PM) ok, then i step in the crap. but the story of maddox was true. btw, i think i was ref to throwing hard all the time. i don't know, that was a long time ago and i am no medical. many thanks for your input. Lot's of people made reference to Prior and PEDs. You are not alone in reading that.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 04:04 PM) well, i didn't know the all medical things, but i thought that with the PED, the players throw harder without realizing it. there was another thing i remember, my cuz was telling me of some huge veins or something poping out, something that happens when someone, in that time/era, was on the juice. edit..... i almost forgot.... even Maddox made a snide comment about Prior being on some special milk shake. It really doesn't make pitchers throw harder as strength isn't a direct correlation to throwing velocity. It made have made some difference. It allowed them to throw at the maximum velocity for a loner period of time so maybe it raised the average fastball velocity.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 01:41 PM) while you brought that up, re Prior, what effect would taking PED also have on the arm?? PEDs allow the arm to recover quicker and pitch with a higher intensity more often. The issue is ligaments and capsules such as the shoulder joint and UCL in the elbow aren't built to take that much stress. Thus they may start to break down with the increased workload allowed by the PEDs.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) ptatc, what's your read on the cause of Mark Prior's injury issues and some others who have been lumped in with him as Tom House guys? I've heard a lot of talk about the "inverted W" and more generally the arm coming through late. Is that what you're thinking about in terms of the chief injury risk of that approach? I say this because for a long time I saw a Tom House instructor (and a couple of times the man himself) and I was encouraged to go with what felt natural in terms of arm slot and position throughout the delivery, which in my case meant taking it out low and throwing 3/4. Of course, the arm slot kept dropping as my labrum tear got more severe... Most of the issues I have with Tom and his philosophy revolve around throwing the breaking pitches. He focuses on breaking the wrist. He'll say"move your wrist like you are pulling a string from a light bulb." This is the reason he has pitchers throw a football, to get the wrist to move. That creates stress up the chain, mostly to the elbow. The towel drill also focuses too much on the wrist motion and a violent move with the shoulder. Other things I have issues with is raising the elbows and leg. Raising the front elbow tends to force the pitcher into a backward leaning position thus they are off balance. Raising the front leg too high tends to do the same thing. Raising the back elbow too high makes it tough to get the arm into external rotation before the body starts moving forward. This puts a great deal of stress on the shoulder. It really will stretch out the capsule and create a loose shoulder (this was the issue with Prior, no real injury just a loose shoulder and pain). He does focus on using your natural motion which is good. But some of the changes he brings in with the drills aren't the best for the body physically.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 09:06 AM) Frank Thomas, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Nellie Fox, Aparicio. Billy Pierce and Minnie Minoso might be the best ambassadors the club has ever had, and nicest guys, but can't be the Top 4 IMO. I wouldn't put Harold Baines there over any of the Top 4, either. Ed Walsh, Hoyt Wilhelm, Ted Lyons, Red Faber, Ray Schalk, Eddie Collins and Luke Appling have arguments as well. Carlton Fisk...but didn't play quite enough to be considered more White Sox than Boston. Played more games and years in Chicago than Boston. Ed Walsh needs to be there. Thomas as well then Appling and Fox. Fisk may not because he split teams and the east coast bias will put him with the Red Sox.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 19, 2015 -> 06:24 PM) No, I love teams that play baseball the right way, with energy/excitement and enthusiasm...imposing their will with speed, solid fundamentals and great defense. Energy/excitement is not necessarily "the right way." That is your preference. The second part is true. The other problem that makes the Royals garbage is that they throw at the head of the hitters. I have no problem in hitting a batter if you think it's necessary. However you do it from the waist down not at the head.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 06:33 AM) Any chance he spends a few weeks in the bullpen, then gets sent back to Charlotte to stretch out his arm and joins the rotation in the summer? That would keep his innings down. After being a starter in Spring and the early season he won't need long to get stretched out. My guess would be 3-4 weeks of bullpen then 1-2 starts with an innings limit, depending on how long his bullpen stints are.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 19, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) I normally don't like moving guys back and forth between the pen and rotation, but in this case it makes sense. They want him to get prepared for MLB competition in a relatively safe environment and they absolutely have to keep his innings total relatively low this year. This kills two birds with one stone. Yep. This is the only reason to do something like this. It is the right move.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) I won't because I'll actually clarify. No one says relievers don't matter. They DO say that reliever performance is volatile and therefore money can be invested more safely in other areas. That's a huge difference. What's old is people making blanket criticisms based on incorrect information. Don't accuse me of flip-flopping. I'm always open to changing my opinion based on new information and will always admit when I'm wrong, but I don't have any sort of agenda beyond trying to be correct. Sorry , I should not have used the term you. I didn't mean you as the person. I meant to use it as a general term for the SABR and analytics that do say this frequently. The group often says that spending a great deal of money on relivers is a poor way to spend money due to their relative lack of importance. They dont effect the game much as they don't throw many innings and using them at the beginning of the 9th is wrong because the true leverage situations happen when someone is on base. If had this very discussion on this board for a decade. Again I apologize as I didn't mean the you as as a person but as the group. I can't remember if you were actually one of the people in those discussions.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) So old. I know I am. I think that is sone of the issue. On a serious note, you won't be saying that when reliivers are failing and these stats come out again.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 10:25 AM) Definitely hate goggles. Give me the everyday player. The front end rotation pitcher is more important.

QUOTE (shipps @ Apr 15, 2015 -> 09:40 AM) Why didnt the Yankees keep him? It seems like he would have been the perfect transition into another good run of a closer post-Rivera. Because most of the analytics out there will tell you that a closer can be found anywhere and aren't really all that important. They have the least effect on winning because they don't pitch very much. He shouldn't be pitch the 9th inning anyway because that is not the most leveraged situation in the game. He is really being used improperly this season. (I don't really need to add the green do I?)

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 10:54 AM) Because the pitchers will b**** about it, and the managers won't make them do something they don't want to do. It make sense on paper though, as long as both those guys would be available for long relief as well. This is way off base. The entire sport of baseball is about being confident. The best players in the world are only good 33% of the time hitting and with pitching being able to get the ball over the plate right where you want it is probably even tougher if you quantify it. Even off by an inch in either case can lead to failure. This is the part that people who look at numbers and think they can change the players or the way the game is played are wrong. The players are people and can lose confidence with failure and they deal with a game of failure. If they aren't confident in the situation, the manager will lead them to failure and the job is supposed to be to put them in a position to succeed. If you're boos told you to get up in front of the president of the company and give a presentation on a topic you weren't comfortable with and the entire company was watch, how do you think you would perform? On top of this what if millions of dollars would be awarded if you performed well but you didn't get them if you performed poorly with an topic you has doubts about? If you look at it from a roster stand point, you are guaranteeing that 2 of your worst pitchers will pitch in a game every 5th day. Does that sound like a recipe for success?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) Your uncle sounds like a very stable human. Only when it comes to the Sox vs. Cubs. He takes it very seriously. He is 80 now and you still don't call or visit him when they play each other, unless you want to get hit by objects he is throwing at his TV.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 07:07 AM) Dude was my first "favorite" player growing up. The only time I ever lowered my standards and went to Wrigley urinal was to watch him pitch. when I got home, my uncle found out about it, poured charcoal fluid on my shoes and lit them on fire.