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QUOTE (MAX @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) He did a lot of good. But he was a mediocre player and manager overall. I respect your opinion but I disagree. It's just a matter of opinion on what you think is important to the franchise. I don't think being one of the winningist mangers with the only modern era world series title is mediocre for the team. He is one of the best they've ever had. That coupled with being an outstanding shortstop for over a decade is an important figure for the team. I won't complain if it doesn't happen but I think he is worthy of consideration.

QUOTE (MAX @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 02:13 PM) He is also one of the worst long term hitters in baseball history. But a very good defensive shortstop at a time when that was a premium. Medically speaking he was also very important. Up until his injury with the collision with Raines, we tried to do an ACL reconstruction as soon as possible after the injury. His case was one of the first high profile ones where they waitined for the swelling to go down and regain the range first, then did the surgery. It was somewhat controversial the time.

QUOTE (MAX @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) You are ignoring that as a manager he was completely out for himself in the end. He did not give a flying f*** about the white sox. Yes, but was all on him? i'm looking at the whole career not just a couple of years. You can look at the few, if you wish. I'm partially jaded in that he was a fun person the few times I had the chance to hang out with him and most everyone likes him as a person. Everyone can have their own opinion, I just happen to think that he did an awful lot for this team and was a key component in the success of the team for a number of years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:59 PM) How many years is the question. He was done playing 3B at 34 years old. He was playing in pain, and hitting with a bad ankle has to have an effect. If he had 5 more years of his 1990's production, he is probably a HOFer. Whether the injury caused him to have 1 less or 5 less, we will never know, but the year after he retired, he didn't want to get out of bed his ankle bothered him so much. Possible, but he had very productive years after the injury so I don't think it effected his play at the time. He had surgery to clean up the ankle once he decided to retire. He could have done this earlier and returned to baseball but I think he knew it was coming to an end and waited. There is no way to know for sure but I don't think his numbers would have continued to increase and while he was very good there was only one year that he would have been considered one of the best and it was post injury. From my experience with this type of injury, I just don't think it really effected his play much, other than maybe shortening the career.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 09:30 AM) Maybe, but given the presence of Bonifacio, Sanchez and Saladino on there, I would think L Garcia is a more likely candidate in this case. Wilkins is a real possibility too, but I bet he'd get claimed and that leaves the Sox with Dan Black as their emergency 1B/DH (not a great position to be in). LGarcia is the one least valuable to the team and he's unlikely to be claimed. I would think the Sox would keep him around for his versatility. He is an adequate 25th guy who can play anywhere.I don't see that as a case in any of the others. I'm sure there are others in the system who cannot do anything at the MLB level. Garcia brings adequate defense all over the field. Edit: My point was they would keep him in the minors. With the signing, they don't need him in the MLB.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 01:03 PM) If the Detroit Tigers who play in a much smaller market can feature a $163 million payroll, then there is no way I can accept the fact that a $150 million payroll is not "realistic" for the "Chicago" White Sox. No way! They have a single owner in a single market. The Sox have a board of directors to which JR is responsible and they have the lesser share of a market with 2 teams. Illitch can do whatever he wants with the team. It's his. JR does not have this luxury. JR has said repeatedly that he will not spend the Sox into the red. His ownership groups for the Bulls and Sox are different. He cannot steal money from his Bulls group and give it to the Sox group. While he owns more of the a great deal more of the Bulls than the Sox, they are still different groups.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 10:39 AM) It was bad officiating, but I don't think it was any conspiracy to throw the game or anything like that. All sports suffer from poor officiating. NFL probably more than the others, but it is also the fastest moving with the most players on the field at one time. This wasn't poor officiating. This was blatantly changing a correct call and then blatantly not calling an obvious one (Bryant on the field yelling at a ref with his helmet off). This isn't a close missed call at a base in baseball. It's not the dropped third strike on AJP when the umpires view is blocked. This was right in front of the referee, literally. A player who is not supposed to be on the field, let alone with his helmet off is in front of the ref.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) I think it affected the last few years of his career. He was using a cane a year after he retired before getting some more surgery.he was pretty much done at 3B at 34. His doctor called it post traumatic arthritis. I don't think it really effected his game much. Again, it really didn't hamper what he did well, hit and hit for power. His strength on defense really wasn't his range. It may have shortened his career. But prior to the injury he was very good and not a HOF player. I don't think the injury changed that other than a couple of years in length.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jan 4, 2015 -> 06:59 PM) Seeing all my friends in michigan b**** and cry about this game is totally worth putting up with Dallas winning. They have every reason to complain. That was awful. However, I agree, it's fun listening to them cry about it.

Greedy NFL screwed the Lions.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 3, 2015 -> 08:24 AM) Had Ventura not screwed his leg up in '97, he may have wound up with a plaque in Cooperstown. So yes he was a better player than Ozzie. Even if you reserve number retirement for the best of the best in MLB history, not just Sox history, Thomas still gets his retired. He is one of the top 20 or so greatest offensive forces to ever play the game. That injury really didn't effect him much. He lost a littler range in his ankle but he wasn't a speed guy so it didn't effect his play other than the time he lost. Ozzie was a very good player for the Sox. The defense he played at short was very good. He wasn't an offensive star but at that time the team didn't need it from him. I would retire his jersey for all of the contributions to the Sox as both a player and manager. He was well above .500 and was top 5 or so in all time wins for the Sox as well as the only modern day World Series winner.

Shooting deer in Mississippi for the next 5 days.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2014 -> 05:40 PM) The NFL could pay him whatever. It comes down to if the 4 years he spent at Michigan chasing a title trumps the however many years he spent in the NFL chasing the ring. Michingan would be smart to hire a good coach like him, especially since he's from Ohio, they generally have decent luck with that. It really comes down to if he wants to do the recruiting game again. With all of the rules, restrictions and headaches that comes with it. Football is football but recruiting is the tough part.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 22, 2014 -> 07:45 PM) Yea he will never be the same. He should be. That is a fairly standard procedure now.

Chinks was a bad mascot for Pekin.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 23, 2014 -> 11:04 AM) I shouldn't have said there was no advantage, because the ball did move way faster and there are different affects different ballparks have on players. My basic point was that the Twins were good then because they were a good team, even if the ballpark helped them. They haven't been good lately because they've had bad teams, not because of any ballpark effect. I think it has had an effect on the team. The team was basically built with a certain type of player, albeit good players. I think once it changed the players needed to make an adjustment and the FO needed to change the type of player. The Punto, Knoblach type player isn't as effective elsewhere. Granted they were good players but were made more effective by the environment. I think the biggest change is the FO philosophy to players.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 23, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) I think that home field advantage was a little overstated, but it was present. I don't think it was so much that they could tailor their teams to the ballpark as it was that their players picked up the ball better at the Metrodome than other teams could because they played there all the time. The last few years, their teams have been really bad, especially pitching. They've had terrible starters and really, really bad bullpens. I think their bullpen is the biggest cause for concern moving forward, but they aren't and don't spend a lot because that's never really been the Twins thing. The homefield advantage was more there than other ballparks. with that ballpark anyone could hit down on the ball and make it bounce to run it out. Guys with speed could do it well. It was just contact. The Cell for example is a HR park but not everyone can do it and in order to do it players increase their strikeouts. So ballparks that lend themselves to contact hitter are more effective. Again it's not a huge advantage but it was more than others.

Very much like the cobden appleknockers or the hoopston cornjerkers for mascots.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 22, 2014 -> 11:56 AM) I may be in the minority here, but I want him with the big league club ASAP while getting that extra year of team control. Not sure if that's mid April or early May, but I truly believe he's a better starting option than both Danks & Noesei and I don't think we can afford to wait 3+ months for him to replace one of those guys in the rotation if we're serious about competing. Also, I don't think spending a full season with Cooper as a starter in the majors is going to be any worse for his development than dominating minor league hitters for most of the year. Rodon is a special talent and IMO he should be pushed along more aggressively. The issue is physical. He cannot pitch an entire MLB season as a starter. It will not be good for him physically. He should only go 160-170 innings. If the Sox begin the season with him as a starter, they will need to do as the Nationals did with Strasburg and shut him down in August. If the Sox are ina playoff race the fans will go nuts about this, even though it is the correct move.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) 1. Get him to 150 innings when his peak previous innings total is about 130. 2. Get him those innings against lesser competition so that he's building up his arm and working on his offspeed stuff but doing so without having to face top level MLB competition/extremely high stress levels. 3. Get him exposed to big league hitters in a controlled way, where he's only seeing how they handle his fastball and maybe one offspeed pitch, so that he has a bit of experience against big leaguers to fall back on this offseason. 4. Add in a few extra innings in a controlled way at the end of the year to keep building up his arm but without pushing him so far. 5. Maybe win a few extra games in September by bringing up a lefty who can throw in the low/mid 90s with really good stuff to the pen. 6. Maybe get him experience in a playoff hunt if things don't fall apart beforehand. Add in building his confidence at the MLB level as well.

Ready to continue thread?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 22, 2014 -> 10:04 AM) Anything they get out of him in 2015 should be considered gravy. Hopefully he can be really good in 2016. He will be pitching for the sox this year, if he is throwing now. I just hope his back is right so he doesn't stress the elbow again.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 20, 2014 -> 07:43 PM) I consider that a horrible value trade if you want the truth. Jeremy Reed was a top prospect. He didn't pan out, but he, himself, had more value than a rent of Freddie Garcia. We also included our starting catcher who stayed in the league for another decade. We took a huge gamble there, with no one behind him. Fortunately, SF cut AJ. We also traded another outfield prospect who became a solid major leaguer and is still in the league. All of that for a 4 month rent of Garcia who was basically a 3 (maybe a low 2)? . Yes, it worked out. Bad value works out sometimes. I would consider that an outstanding trade for the sox. Anytime you can get a proven MLB mid-top rotation starter for 1 top suspect, another one who was suspended for PEDs and wasn't showing much and a below average MLB catcher, you make that deal. Top pitching is the name of every game in the MLB.

If there ever was case for the NFL having a fixed game, tonight would be it.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 19, 2014 -> 11:41 PM) Forgive my rant in advance. ... So Alex Rios signs with KC for 11 million dollars. Now since he gets to play the Sox 19 times (we know what ex Sox players do to the Sox as in kill them) he might produce a bit. But you've got to be kidding me? Alex Rios hasn't shown the baseball world how INVALUABLE he is by now? I tell you, baseball is one profession you can get paid and not have to produce. After the year he had last year he gets to pocket 11 more million?? And Kendrys Morales gets to pocket 8 million?? The list goes on. I tell you, we'd all be better off if baseball owners just paid these ballplayers pennies and let the customer go to the game for movie-like prices. 10-12 bucks a game. Sad that this elitist sport is run by people who get all that TV money and don't mind giving "players" like Alex Rios 11 million a year when he has PROVEN he's a mediocre to lousy ballplayer. My god. you're just figuring this out. It's not an elitist sport, it's a good way to make alot of money. They only spend the money because they know they can make the money. Just like to movies you mention. There is a reason some actors gets 20 million for 6 months worth of work. They producers know they will make the money back.