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QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 04:27 PM) Maybe this...? Houston takes Aiken, Miami takes Rodon and the Sox say screw Nola/ Kolek and draft Jackson. The Sox will not take a position player.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) Yes, those surefire previous mlb drafts that happened in the past. No, but there is usually a "best" pitcher in the draft. This year There have been at least 3 listed that could go 1.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 01:13 PM) He wouldn't. I thought you were responding to my earlier point where I said he would have no leverage NEXT year because he was a senior. Got it. Sorry, I missed that part.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) It's possible, but it's extremely risky given the rigidity of the draft rules now. When Crow did it, it was essentially still an open market. For Rodon to ultimate push his sign date back two years is to hope to avoid injury and maintain velocity just to enter the draft at age 24, having lost all semblance of leverage, all for the ultimate upside of less than $2m of slot bonus from 3 to 1. Realistically, even in the very remote scenario where everything in the world goes right for him and he gets popped #1 at 24 in 2016, the team that picks him is going to get him for underslot anyway, because wtf else is he going to do at that point? Meanwhile, he would probably be accruing service time in the Majors by then if he'd just taken his $5m in 2014. I was just trying to come up with options for leverage. I agree it's risky but Boras does alot of out of the box thinking. Why would he have to wait 2 years and not just enter the draft next year.

Still think it will be a choice between Kolek and Nola. Both have pros and cons. How quickly will they help the team vs. potential ace,

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) As has been said -- what "games" is Boras gonna play? He is hand cuffed under the new CBA. See last year, when Appel was taken #1 overall and Boras couldn't do anything to get him overslot: http://mlb.si.com/2013/06/20/mark-appel-as...top-pick-signs/ The worst thing that could happen with Rodon is he signs for like 5% over bonus. I don't think that's going to deter the Sox from taking him if he's a clear #1 on their board at that pick. Could he hold his guy out a year and pitch in an independent league?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 12:13 PM) He also pitches on 7 days rest. That was something Mike Ferrin pointed out about college velocity at one point. Good point.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 12:05 PM) I would feel a lot better had Hoffman not gotten injured. Spillt milk. Yes. He was the Sox pick.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) Using extreme examples to illustrate a point doesn't make it less valid. This is the internet, extreme examples are commonplace. Also, telling a kid who's used to throwing with max effort to not throw harder isn't easy. A lot of pitchers can't maintain their control when they ease back. It's like trying to ride a bike slow. It's hard to stay upright. Doesn't mean it's right. I think we can agree that most of these players in the draft will not perform at a HOF level during there career. So the example isn't very realistic. I disagree about teaching the pitching aspect. Pitchers have poorer control when they try to over throw. If you have them back off the control improves. It's not a given that everyone can do it but most can.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 11:34 AM) 2 predictions that are locks: Whoever the Sox select first, it will be the player they have been targeting all along, and they will be in disbelief that the player they select with their second choice slipped to them. And the one thing I will be skipping tonight when watching the draft is Bud announcing the Dodgers and Angels picks. His pronounciation of Los Angeleese is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. You forgot the other lock: Soxtalk will immediately crash due to the overwhelming response that the Sox have doomed the franchise with this obviously blown pick. And that KW should not have over ruled RH and picked the player.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 11:11 AM) You dont have to throw 100 to pitch off your fastball. It's like people don't remember guys like Martinez, Maddux and, to a lesser extent, Schilling. They all were capable of throwing hard, but sat in the low to mid 90's with movement and control. You can have Nolan Ryan, I'll take Greg Maddux. You are talking about once in a lifetime HOF pitchers there. The vast majority of pitchers cannot do that. That's like teaching all hitters to hit off the front foot because Hank Aaron and Frank Thomas did. Very few can be successful at it.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:55 AM) It's probably because Stone isn't a loudmouth idiot. Anyway, it still blows my mind with how infatuated people are with velocity. Movement and control have always, and will always, be more important than velocity. Yes, but if you take a guy who throws 100 with good control and teach him great command at 95 you have the best of both worlds and an All_star pitcher.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) According to Perfect Game, that's exactly what he is. http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=9818 Edit: we should expect Nola to touch 95 as much as we should expect Kolek to touch 102. Nola is a low-90s guy with great command of the fastball and change. Kolek draws comps to Nolan Ryan and Kerry Wood. If you're a-scared, buy a dog. Then you take Kolek. I though I read he sits more in the 92-94 range. I agree Kolek has the higher upside but I don't know if I risk it here. The Sox have taken too many "higher upside" players lately and the system has suffered.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:43 AM) Agree, but again, we're not picking mid-to-late round here. Players like this exist in every draft, and you can find/develop them out of other organizations using lesser assets than the #3 overall draft pick. I mean, if we had an excellent RHSP between Sale and Q as your top 3 but needed something behind that, would you really be worried about the Sox having to find a #3-4 somewhere? We can pick these guys up whenever thanks to Mr. Cooper. Also if the Sox are concerned about getting players here as quickly as possible then obviously they still haven't learned anything because that goes completely against their stated current philosophy. Get the best players on the farm you can, develop them as best you can, try to figure out which ones you should trade and then do it, and when you call up players, make sure they're ready to be here and good enough to be here. Sox need to start at Step 1, not Step 4 or 5, and they need to go with the upside here. I don't think there are many pitchers with mid-90's stuff and his reported command. Usually the "impeccable" control guys sit around 90-92.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:41 AM) I said I want, as a biased Sox fan. Hahn has been alluding to us signing under slot for the overall draft for a while. If we could could draft Nola and sign him less than or equal to 5 million it would be a nice shot in the arm for the rest of the draft. 3rd pick - 5.72 million 8th pick - 3.91 million I don't its realistic to think he will sign for significantly under slot so you would need to go to your next pick who you think is worthy of that slot.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) This thread will be fun to revisit 3-5 years from now. I'm hoping to be alive and that point to have people take shots at me.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:33 AM) Hoping for Aiken/Rodon falling to us. Just want to hear any name but these for the first two picks. If they don't fall I want Nola way under slot. With the way all the experts have him climbing the boards, do you really think he'll sign for any significant under slot?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:32 AM) If the Sox are split on Kolek/Nola it's just because they are afraid. Upside on a healthy Nola realistically is going to be a 3 type of guy. He'll get there quicker, and if he does well then he's probably easier to extend. Downside #1 is he loses stuff and is a MLB #5 starter or reliever. Downside #2 is he just gets hurt and flames out. Extra factor here is that if you clearly pass on Kolek to take this guy, no matter what Nola does, if Kolek turns out you're going to have to live with letting your same-city rival or your same-division rival get an ace because you were too scared to put your balls on the line. And for that you would deserve to be fired. Upside on a healthy Kolek realistically is going to be a 1-3 type of guy, depending almost entirely on his mental ability & composure on the mound along with his breaking ball, probably just one of the slider/curve to go with a change. If the secondary stuff comes along and he's a gamer on the mound, he's a true ace. Kolek might take an extra 1-1.5 years, still putting him as a fit with our core. Kolek would cost more money though if he does really well, and we'd have to be more aggressive in pursuing an extension to buy out his arb years. Downside #1 is he loses stuff or doesn't have the mental makeup and is more like a Gavin Floyd #3 type. Downside #2 is he also flames out. Extra factor here is that if you clearly pass on Nola to take Kolek, nodoby f***ing cares. No matter what Nola does, you're not missing anything in Nola you can't acquire through lesser means. From a hotseat standpoint, Kolek and his upside is the safer pick. Then you have the trade value perspective. Let's say whoever you pick is going to be packaged in a big deal for a young star player. The next time there's one of these Stanton types out there, or whoever, what do you think the team you're dealing with would rather have, Kolek or Nola? If you have any worries whatsoever on Kolek once he's in your system, you can always deal him off for a haul assuming he's healthy and you're getting the deal done in time. The game of baseball is based around pitching. Assuming 2 players are both healthy (and there is NO reason to assume Kolek is an injury risk while Nola is not, that's absurd, all pitchers are risks) and also assuming both players have the proper mental aspects/composure on the mound, the bigger, nastier guy with the much better arm is the one you want on the mound because he is going to have the best chance between the two of them of consistently getting hitters out. There is something to be said for the still good stuff, with better command and proven against more advanced competition.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:18 AM) http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2082398...ry=Aaron%20Nola He throws from a really low arm slot. He doesn't hide the ball well at all. I wonder if this will make him vulnerable to LH hitters at the next level.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 10:02 AM) I wouldn't touch a HS kid that throws 103. No way. Didn't think I would ever see the comment that people would not want hard throwers. Look at what the Sox did with Sale. He could throw 99 regularly out of the pen. They taught him to dial it down and throw 94 consistently with better movement and control. This is what they would do with Kolek. He can throw and easy 95. That is a good weapon to have. Just because he can throw 100 doesn't mean he will once he learns pitching.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 09:50 AM) It's a bit premature to anoint Kolek as Strasburg/Clemens/Wood/Beckett rolled into one perfect package. There has to be a lot of red flags with a high schooler throwing 103 MPH. It's simply human nature to not trust those numbers at that age (holding up) three to five years from now. Let's just put it this way, there are a lot more hits than misses with pitching high in the draft. The fact is that only Longoria and Machado have been "good" picks there over a long time period should tell you something about the odds going more and more against you with each subsequent pick downwards from 1-1. This is why you teach him to throw 95 with alot of movement and improved control.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 07:28 AM) Why is Kolek falling? Because the Sox will take a college pitcher at this position in the draft.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 4, 2014 -> 10:09 PM) Just like Doug Eddings, I will never complain about him. Beckett is a fun guy. I worked with him as an 18 yo at Kane County. He was the living Nuke LaLoosh. But fastball and no idea where it was going. I think he hit the Cougar once.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 4, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) Lowrie went to Stanford. Don't say that on this message board. I once said that Richard Sherman had to have some intelligence because he went to Stanford. What followed was an attack about how going to college, or a certain college or anything doesn't mean you are intelligent because of grade inflation, poor teachers, street smarts..............

RIP One of the true fun characters of the game. Today's game needs more fun loving guys like him.