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QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 01:01 PM) Im assuming he means Notre Dame I know, I should have put it in green. Being a Marquette grad I enjoy heckling Golden Dumbers.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 08:12 PM) I haven't heard the players say it either, but it comes up around here constantly NOT as a byproduct (as you described), but as some sort of solution. Such as caulfield's post that spawned my original tantrum: The solution to our bullpen issues is to have better players, not to find a mystical order in which to line our current players up. The goal is always to have better pitchers. However, the better pitchers will also pitch better with confidence and comfort in the roles. Whether people want to believe it or not, these are people and they will perform better in comfortable situations. Even if it's in their own mind, it's what they think. Baseball players are people of routines and habit, usually superstitions as well. There is an order where people feel more comfortable and roles where players feel more comfortable. It applies to hitters as well. Why do some hitters hit better in a different spot in the order? All they have to do is hit the ball wherever they are? People will perform better at anything in life when the are comfortable and confident. That's not to say it can't work differently but that's usually when you get the most out of them. It can't make a bad player good, but it can make an average to good player worse.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 07:14 PM) Right, because they're getting people out. When they fail though, "well I need a defined role" isn't an excuse. That's my point. You can't have a defined role when you can't be relied upon. No, it's that. There is always failure in the pen. It's when it happens over time and nobody is effective is the only time that it comes into play. I've never heard an individual player use it as an excuse when he pitched poorly. you only see it when the entire pen is ineffective and no one has that role. It's not an excuse for failure individually as frequently you have players moved in an out. It's just that when you have effective bullpens they need to have confidence in their role. When everyone is pitching poorly there is no confidence anywhere. Do you have confidence and go pitch well or do you have to pitch well before you have confidence. There is a little of both to make an effective pitcher and an effective staff.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 06:26 PM) Boom You will only see this when the bullpen is ineffective. An effective bullpen will have the defined roles. With the way they are pitching now it doesn't matter what you do.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 05:12 PM) Can someone make a chart with all the relievers and the innings they should pitch? If roles being change wreaks havoc on the rest of the bullpen, how come no one mentioned that when they said it was such a great idea to trade Addison Reed? I'm sure they did. I think the plan was Jones , 9th, Linstrom, Belly 8th, Downs situational lefty.........

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 04:13 PM) Then they should be mentally prepared to go in. But over 6 months of doing that you will wear them down. They will be worn out by the end of the season. 90% of the game is half mental as Berra used to say.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 03:50 PM) It's not realistic to be able to plan every single inning of every single day out for a RP. If "be ready to pitch between 8 and 10 on game days" is too much for someone to handle, they don't belong in the major leagues. If children can do it for fun, the world's best adults should be able to do it for millions of dollars. Yes, it is realistic and that is what they do. Before the games the pitching staff and usually the pitching coach will go over the bullpen plan. Today so and so will go in with a lefty in a tight situation. If we need a guy before the 6th, so and so will go in. Jeff you have the 8th unless it's a blowout. This is discussed before every series at least and usally before games in the pen. If it changes due to something else in a game the bullpen coach will talk to the players in the game. Again, i'm just telling you how they do it and why it's important. This is what happens in the MLB and why they don't like the change. It's mostly mental but that is how you get the most out of the pitchers. If they aren't comfortably mentally, you aren't going to get the most out of them.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 04:08 PM) Good, they're professional athletes. They should be ready to play during games, just like other bench players. My point is it isn't like they blow their arms throwing to prepare. Yes, they have a greater chance to injure their arms. They are not like bench players who know they will pinch hit if a lefty comes in (although that is defined as well). Pitchers in the pen will not be as effective if they aren't mentally prepared to go in.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 01:28 PM) How do you know this? It's an excuse. None of us "needed" this in little league, High School, or American Legion when I played. We all did just fine. If you've ever spent time in an MLB pen or locker room you would see it ins't true. It is all mental but this is how MLB players cope with alll the failure. It's all in the routine and they do not like it when they routine is upset. You didn't need it at age because 1) the workload isn't there and 2) the talent isn't there. The really good players didn't need it because they were playing inferior talent and the inferior players didn't need it because they weren't very good anyway. This is the learning process in the minors. They aren't learning the "game" of baseball. They are learning how to deal with the massive amount of failure and the long season grind.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 01:27 PM) No, you warm up when they call to the bullpen and ask you to warm up. but that's not what they do. They start with the stretching and therband work well before they begin to throw other wise no one would be ready for over an inning once they are called. It's not like they do nothing until they call to the pen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 11:31 AM) Not even with a driver and golf ball... Rifle?

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) Notre Dakota: the OTHER UND. There is another? I thought the team named Sioux was the only one?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Yeah, so be prepared to come in any time between the 6th and 9th. As long as that is the expectation, that is really not at all an unreasonable request. Be prepared to get dudes out tonight when the starter needs help. It is unreasonable to need to be prepared for an unknown every night. When do you start to warm up. Does everyone in the pen start warming up in the sixth inning? That would really wear everyone out pretty quickly in the season.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 12:04 PM) Are you really arguing that Lindstrom wasn't the opening day closer? Not sure what I'm missing here. I'm saying he wasn't the "planned" opening day closer. Jones was injured and that started the downward plan for the closer.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 10:28 AM) Lol, and that's worked SO well so far. Also, a tangent point, I really hate how the whole "defined roles are the only way anyone can perform" adage is treated like some law of physics. Why do we accept that these guys need to be coddled and handed excuses? Your name is called -- get guys out! That's it! Quit being a weiner and do your goddamn job. The closer is the only guy who really has a predictable timetable anyway. Every other reliever could be called on at any time from the 6th to the end of the game depending upon matchups and how deep the starter goes. The "setup guy" probably gets the 8th inning in maybe 50% of the games, and that's only if he's the right handedness. It's all a bunch of agent crap, IMO. RPs are supposed to go in and get batters out. Don't allow runs somewhere between 8:30 and 10:00 at night. Doesn't matter what inning it's in, and if you're so delicate that you can only perform if you can pinpoint the exact moment that you'll get your ten minutes of work in, then go back to the Bush League. whether you think it or not it's reality. There is a big difference as to when to pitch. In the ninth there is no safety net, you pitch poorly the team loses. If you pitch in the 8th there is always a chance you can come back with offense. Picture if you worked for an insurance company and you have auto clients. You mess up ona couple of bad policies and you lose a few thousand dollars. Now let's say you handle flood insurance in a coastal region and messed up the re-insurance when Katirna hit. Same job different pressure. Pitchers also like defined role for the comfort and confidence. All players need this as it's a game of dealing with failures. when you are in a comfort zone it's easier to deal with these failures. Remember when Frank Thomas was blasted because he didn't want to screw up is pregame routine and the Sox wanted to change it to allow fans into batting practice early? All baseball players do this and need this. whether you agree or not, this is the mentality of the MLB player. Now some rare ones are mentality strong enough not to deal with it. However, nearly all of them need this routine to be comfortable.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 10:14 AM) Doesn't matter if he was the planned closer when they resigned him, he was the planned closer on opening day and Nate Jones was a setup man before he got injured. I don't think so. I think it was planned for Jones to be the closer once Reed was traded.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 5, 2014 -> 06:36 AM) Grade inflation happens for athletes at 95% of DI schools, but Stanford is in the other 5%. Not according to the posters who attacked me about Richard Sherman. It was also in reference to all students not just athletes.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/winnin...p;vkey=news_mlb Winning Formula...Five Reasons For Oakland As Lasting Success So the most common theme is having players without egos, thus no "star" players. So all teams should go the cheap route and not attract star players with egos

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing Konerko because I'm not, but the only thing he has going for him Hall of Fame wise is the counting stats and a World Series. He has never won any awards, never led the league in anything and his rate stats are not that great. His average fWAR for his career is about 1.9. That rates as average or even slightly below average. JAWS lists him as the 81st greatest 1B to play the game. He's 198th all time in OPS and just 381st all time in OPS+. As a 1B, that's not that great. Like Nolan Ryan never winning the Cy Young and leading the league in walks almost as many times as he lead it in strikeouts?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) Because what it is good for? Absolutely, nothing. SAY IT Again HUNH!

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 01:28 PM) The larger point you are glossing over is that there are other options to lead this thing. It's not as though rebuilding efforts can only prove successful if they occur under the managerial genius of Robin Ventura. If the FO wants to half-ass the managerial part of the product while it is going through changes then whatever, that's their choice, but I think it's unnecessay. I think the best thing (for Robin) that anyone can reasonably say is that he should be re-evaluated after the season. This is his 3rd year and if by the end of Year 3 it's still "what you see is what you get" then that isn't going to cut it. Do you want Robin to turn into Thibs where he only pitches 2/3 of the staff? Baseball is 162 games everyone needs to see the field otherwise everyone else breaks down. The bullpen cannot throw strikes and what is he supposed to do about it.? Over work the starters? People are trying to fire him for that too.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:32 AM) BTW greatest Rpobin f***up moments: I'll start with the 2012 game he blew something like a 6-run lead in the 9th by going with a s***ty "get his work in" player and then forgetting to get his pen ready, and then bringing in guy after guy cold until the lead was gone. I think they lost that one in extras. Also constantly refusing to trust Q in his rookie season and having Reed blow like 2 games that should have been CGs. This guy is terrible, I hoped he would develop as a manager, clearly not. There isn't a single manager in the game that hasn't had the same thing. Look at the Minnesota message boards. Most of the fans have been calling for Gardenhire's head for the last two years for many of the same complaints. I consider him a pretty good manger as well. All mangers blow games. you just need to look at positives and negatives.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) If Robin is really that comfortable putting the game in the hands of Don Cooper, then why does he want to be manager in the first place? Eventually, he's going to have a Harry Truman/General Douglas McArthur moment where he realizes the two of them can't co-exist unless he wants to be totally emasculated as a manager. As far as Cooper goes, Noesi/Putnam/Petricka are all wins for him. Did anyone expect much out of Danks again, for example lower than a 4.00 ERA? If you're going to blame him for Scott Downs, Erik Johnson or Daniel Webb, then we might as well blame Jeff Manto for Keppinger. Most managers in baseball lean on the pitching coach for advice on making pitching changes. It's part of the job of the pitching coach to know the pitchers. Similar to the head coach of a football team allowing the defensive coordinator to run the defense. The all have input.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:50 AM) I think a better manager manages a bullpen better, but you can only do so much with the talent on hand, and this wouldn't be a good bullpen at this point even with someone else on hand. Not to mention that you're #1 and #2 bullpen guys at the beginning of the year are out. Many bullpens will fail when you lose two of the best members.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 04:59 PM) Rizzo has been the better player. He is younger. He is much better defensively. He has a wOBA of .400. Anthony Rizzo is turning into a stud. Abreu is awesome too but we are being homers if we suggest that Abreu is better and it's not close. Come on. How many years has Rizzo been in the MLB? I wouldn't say Rizzo is the better player yet. Currently, maybe.