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QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 7, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) Best player on my DIII college team was our ace pitcher who could throw 85 and had a nasty breaking ball, pretty damn good for DIII. He used to smoke a huge bowl before every start he made and he was lights out. Weed really doesn't harm your body like cocaine or even amps. No, not in the short term. But players used to do this with ibuprofen to feel better during games and discovered that they got kidney problems later in life. Pot as stated before with regular use will cause cardiac problems later in life.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 7, 2014 -> 01:34 PM) "Producing runs" is a hugely complex thing which a lot of these stats try to tease out, and crude metrics like RBI or runs don't really tell that accurate of a story. Being on base (put another way, not making an out) is a huge component of effectively producing runs. You're right that more advanced metrics were originally crafted by fans, but they were picked up by agents and then used by GMs because they give better and/or additional information. GMs wouldn't care a bit about some fancy nerd math numbers that Boras is using unless the GM (and his staff) felt that they were actually valuable. It'd be more accurate to say that they gained wider acceptance in baseball management because they allow teams to better understand the players and the game. It doesn't need to be that complex. How many did the player account for. Why use other stats to predict it. Of course things like being on base will influence it but it's not as important as actually doing it. Instead of looking at how factors over 5 years predict it, look at 5 years of actually doing it. I'm not saying that the advanced stats shouldn't be used. I use them and watch them all the time. I was one of the first to promote them. I just think it's gone so far and using them like Bernstein did is an abuse of them to make a point.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 7, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) Linear weights-based stats exist for the purpose of trying to compare players with a common denominator. For example, Brandon Phillips had 103 RBI in 2013. Mike Trout had 97. Does that make them the same class of hitter? If not, then how can we tell who is better and, by extension, likely to produce more in the future? Well, Brandon Phillips had a wRC+ of 91 that year, and Trout had an insano-pants 176. So there you go. Anyway, that's the purpose. Obviously things like RBI are critical when the game is being played, it's how you win, after all. I'd never want a coach to tell a player not to worry about driving in runs, for example. They just aren't good for evaluating ability. Or, better put, there are many other numbers that serve as much, much better proxies for evaluating ability than RBI and other context-based metrics. This is true. However a few points. I'm not sure that saying someone who was better this year will be better next year. You will need a pattern of 5 years or so to determine this and I bet I could look at the "basic" stats and tell this as well. Even with those numbers did you really think that Phillips was better than Trout. I don't need any numbers to tell me that. Also if you use the runs scored +RBI -HR formula Trout winds up with 179 and Phillips 165, so even that shows Trout had a better year. Also, in the dawning age of non- (or decreased) PED usage, not all players will be able to put up great numbers across the board. So I think players will need to be separated out. It's kind of like comparing a WR to an RB in football. Players are going to sort themselves into the OBP specialists and others in the SLG groups and there will only be the select few that can do both and this will be obvious.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 7, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) Because evaluating a team as a whole and a player as an individual are two very different things? Just like in any other field of research, you want to limit your variables as much as possible. It came about so smart GMs could better evaluate talent. It is two very different things. You do want to limit variables. However, certain variables are more important than other and should be factored in. Variables like the aforementioned weighted on base. I'm not too concerned with Abreu or Rizzo being on base. I'm more concerned about them producing runs. Am I looking for them to walk or hit with a man on second? If no one is on base, do they swing for the HR or try to take the walk. This is where some of the stats are more important than others. It did not come about so GMs could make better decisions. The first group to use them were fans, back in the 80's when James was using a one page news letter. Then the agents like Boras picked it up to drive the price of the players up because he showed how important an isolated player was without the context of other players.

QUOTE (MEANS @ May 7, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) keep grasping.... That could have caused the flexor strain as well......wait wrong forum.

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 7, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) Runs scored also has to do with how the the hitters behind you hit. It's pretty clear that things like RBI and Runs scored rely on factors one individual player just can't control. Correct. However, that is the game of baseball. You cannot control everything to win the game. So why make up a stat that doesn't use it. It came about so agents can get more money for their client because "he did what he could control" nothing else really matters.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 7, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) I don't think he was ever in the teams plans beyond Eaton's return. I think they want him as the platoon with DeAza when Eaton returns.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 7, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) This is pretty good. Some will hate it because they hate Bernstein. Some will hate it because they hate Dunn. As a Dunn fan, here it is. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/05/07/ber...bscuring-truth/ This article is one of the primary problems I have with "advanced" stats. Both of these players are being paid to produce runs. You can determine the probable value of this all you want but Abreu has scored 22 and driven in 35 for 57 runs minus the HR as you don't want to count the run twice for a total of 45. Rizzo has 19 scored and 16 driven in for 35 minus the 6 HR for a total of 29. There is always the comment of RBI being useless because it depends on the teammates getting on base for the opportunity. In that case the percentage of runs driven in by opportunity works. Don't flame me because I know many of you like the +RC stat and all but when it comes down to it, I think it is all about producing runs from these guys and I really don't care what his weighted on base percentage is. It's great to debate and discuss but it's not as relevant.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ May 7, 2014 -> 10:10 AM) Really? With absolutely no intention of offending anyone, I've always believed that the VAST majority of hardcore fans, including all those who have played at the high school level and beyond, prefer everything that goes with the chess-match aspect of baseball over cro-magnon "piñata ball." And that's despite the media's interest in glorifying the shameful McGwire-Sosa-Bonds "chicks dig the long-ball era." The big bombs are an amazing part of the game. I enjoy the occasional slugfest too (as long as my guys win). But, baseball is so much bigger and richer than just that. You're not exactly the only two left. I hope you're right. It just seems that the vast majority of the people I talk to enjoy the 10-9 more than the 2-1.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 7, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) Sierra has no options though. He'd have to go through waivers. Also, they already have DeAza and Eaton for LH. I think they will want to see if Sierra can stay as a RH outfield backup or platoon with DeAza.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 7, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) If that were the case you'd see a league-wide decline. So many of those guys get high. It doesn't necessarily increase the number although it's anti-inflammatory effect will mask injuries, however it will cause the healing time to be longer.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 7, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) Personally, based on how he has been treated, between the unnecessary shift to the bullpen in 2011, the bouncing between the bullpen and rotation in 2012, and the ongoing pitch count issue that comes up here all the time, I think it's very questionable whether the Sox actually are conservative in how they treat him. You can make a case either way; they have shut him down a couple times at the first sign of an issue (good) but they push him very hard in several ways otherwise. True. The switching to the bullpen I would deem as conservative if you think mechanics and pitch count are the issue. Being in the bullpen decreases the number of pitches thus chances that the mechanics become an issue. However, I think it would increase the "stressful" pitches as he threw harder more frequently.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 7, 2014 -> 08:43 AM) And I think based on nearly 20 pitchers in MLB already going out for Tommy John surgery this year alone, if you choose to believe that somehow Chris Sale is a greater risk than any other pitcher, you need to make a much stronger case than "I think his mechanics look weird". Pitchers are going down left and right in this league. Based on the number of pitchers going down for that surgery already this year, an equally plausible answer seems to be "your baseball team should not employ pitchers". Also, does the fact that Sale has not had a surgery while many pitcher have in the past few years, attest to him only having a tendency towards minor injuries or that the Sox are more conservative in the care of him.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 7, 2014 -> 08:17 AM) Have they all been elbow issues? I thought at least one was forearm, not elbow Pretty much the same thing as the forearm muscles originate at the elbow. They are the same muscles, it just depends on where the feel the pain.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 6, 2014 -> 07:51 PM) Oh, are they playing tonight? It's a rumor I heard somewhere.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 6, 2014 -> 07:46 PM) That was fast. They want to watch a meaningful game......the Hawks.

QUOTE (balfanman @ May 6, 2014 -> 10:10 AM) Lol!; No, I've just always valued defense and pitching over offense. I much prefer a pitchers dual over a 10 - 9 game. I loved last nights game for the most part, even though I only got to see the last half of it. My favorite part of baseball is observing how the pitcher and catcher are working together and how the defense is playing certain hitters. Wow. We may be the only two left that think this way.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 6, 2014 -> 03:51 PM) With Sale's mechanics, how in the hell would anybody sign him to one of those astronomical contracts? Let's face it, none of this is good news. Not blaming anybody, just saying Sale is not somebody I'm counting on to be a reliable member of the rotation for long. He is one of these guys that in the 1950s would have been run out of baseball in the minors due to injuries vefore he even got to the majors. He looks to be a guy who they will need to rest and skip a few starts every year. However with his talent he is worth it. It's more important to have him ready at the end of the year in years that they are ,in contention

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) I agree. This is far from the "he could have just skipped a start and then pitched, the DL was just extraordinary precausion" it started out as. This is true. However, I think they really thought that. The are approaching like a muscle strain. The muscle just isn't responding as quickly as they would like.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 6, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) What does your gut tell you? We're all starting to get alarmed...as this is clearly a lot more than missing just a start or two. Is it really possible that there's a "partial" tear that will heal on its own with rest/rehab and not require surgery? And what, if anything, can be done to prevent such a recurrence in the future? There's just no way to realistically change his mechanics without completely changing his effectiveness, and that would probably lead to even more injuries as he overcompensated or tried to protect himself subconsciously. If they even suspected a partial tear, he would have been shut down for at least 4 weeks. They believe it is a muscles strain and are progressing accordingly. The unknown factor is how bad the strain is and how long before the inflammation goes down. Once this happens it's a strengthening and motor control process. This is why how long between throwing sessions is important. It's based on how the muscle is recovering.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 6, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) So, Dan Bernstein pretty much just called Hawk a racist. He calls any from the south or speaks with an accent a racists. "because they are all redneck muricans"

QUOTE (bmags @ May 5, 2014 -> 07:04 PM) ugh, I knew this was going to happen. Nobody is going to talk me down from the ledge on this. We are going to keep getting "good reports" but a delayed time table and then suddenly we'll see "Sale out for season, getting surgery" This is entirely possible. He had a 40 pitch bullpen session yesterday. If he felt fine he would probably have a simulated game or rehab start coming up. Obviously, everything wasn't fine. He is going to have another bullpen session tomorrow I think. If this happens than I will be encouraged. It means that they are just working on strengthening to get his arm ready for a start. If the bullpen session happens any later than Thursday, there is still something going on.

QUOTE (bmags @ May 5, 2014 -> 09:15 AM) Yeah I bet. I can't relate to how terrible a human being you have to be to try and start a fight at a game over some macho team pride BS. Go to a Bears packers game, it's even worse. It was so bad I stopped going to those and sold my tickets for them.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 3, 2014 -> 01:41 PM) Wow, what the hell is wrong with him? Is Sierra going to replace Eaton on the roster now? Jones had a disc problem in his back. Last report was that he had injections to calm the inflammation. Obviously they didn't help. Not a good prognosis.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ May 2, 2014 -> 04:17 PM) So, no rehab? Probably a rehab start or simulated game. He has been off too long. The bullpen session is to see how he feels.