ptatc

QUOTE (quickman @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:37 PM) PTAC, these are very encouraging comments about Jake. That said, you mentioned his mechanics. He will most likely have the same mechanics, can we tie his current injury to those mechanics or was this a freak thing? My second question is he basically had most of last year off because of the injury, if mechanics were not responsible for the lat issue then my hope is the extra rest on his shoulder would be an extra benefit and maybe buy us a couple more years of bad mechanics. Is this voodoo logic on my part? This is a unique injury for a pitcher. From observation of his pitching and the pitch on which he injured his shoulder, I think it was caused by throwing sidearm on that pitch. He pitches like Contreras where he like to move his arm angle. The Sox told him not to do this early in the season and he wasn't effective. Once he started doing it again he was effective but we started hearing the " his arm is sore" stuff. The problem is with the way he drops down. He doesn't bend to the side to change the angle like most pitchers do, he stands straight up and throws with his arm to the side. This is what he did when the injury occurred. He can prevent the problems by not pitching this way but I don't know if he can be effective because he obviously wasn't comfortable pitching that way. This may be one problem with the "I'll do whatever I have to to win" attitude he has. The tendon reattachment went well and is a basic procedure, although not for a pitcher. He will need time to rebuild the strength pf the Latissimus Dorsi becuase his been immobilized but there shouldn't be a problem. The key will be is if he can pitch effectively without that angle change or can he and Cooper come up with an angle that still changes the plane of movement but isn't as hard on his shoulder.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:27 PM) I never said it was the only stat that matters. But if you visit sites such as baseball prospectus and hardball times, it's been legitimately proven that high OBP, not SB or even SLG%, is the best and most reliable way to scoring runs. I don't care about playoff stats. The playoffs are a short sample size and an extreme crapshoot. I'm talking about the marathon that is the 162-game regular season. And Juan Pierre still sucks. This is part of the problem. The team that focuses only on the averages and stats marathon, doesn't necessarily have the good post season team. The post season may be a small sample size but it's the most important sample to win the world series. This is part of the reason you need to use baseball sense along with the stats to create a team that can win in both. If you focus too much on one you may not be able to win the whole the thing which is the goal.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:04 PM) OBP has proven to be the best and most effective way to score runs. Give me a guy with Konerko's speed that can get on base at a .390+ clip over JP and his peak .340 clip. Juan Pierre is not a good baseball player. I believed this in 2006 when he was with the Cubs and I mocked all their fans. And I still believe this. I'll, of course, cheer for JP because he plays LF for my favorite team. But I will not mask my true feelings. I know we contune to disagree on this but I need to bring it up. You can't just use OBP and say it's proven to score runs and that's the way to build a team. The Oakland A's of the past decade are proof. They had alot of players that were high OBP but were lacking in defense and speed. This lead to winning enough games to win the division because on "average" against good and poor teams you scored more runs. However, once they got to the playoffs against the best teams and pitchers the high OBP didn't work anymore. The best pitchers don't give up high OBP to even the best OBP players. In this scenario you need to create runs with either speed (and I mean scoring from first on XBH or something like that not just SBs) or homeruns on a single mistake. There is room for role players. OBP is not the only stat that matters. I agree it is important but it is not the only stat that matters for all players.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:29 AM) What about resigning Freddy and making him a long reliever once Peavy returns? I know Freddy's not used to working out of the pen...but it could be a way to make sure his arm lasts a year (and gives us a good backup option in case any other starters end up on the DL) It takes Freddy too long to get warmed up and going. He does alot more than most at this stage of his career. Plus we know he's "big game Freddy." There is no way he would be effective in a long relief/mop up role. Peavy will be healthy and ready for the early in the season if not the beginning of the season. Whether or not he can be effective again without the altered mechanics is anyone's guess.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:24 PM) I hear he was throwing a baseball today, as I posted in the White Sox catch-all thread. http://twitter.com/JakePeavy_44 http://www.facebook.com/JakePeavy44 Unless something goes drastically wrong, he will be ready for early in the season with being very cautious. The big difference between this surgery and most other shoulder surgeries is that this one has little to do with shoulder stabilization. Most shoulder problems in pitchers deal happen because of shoulder looseness or instability, these include rotator cuff, SLAP lesions or biceps tendon issues. This injury was an overload to an extrinsic tendon and should come along quickly once the throwing program really gets going.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 11:48 AM) $104.55M payroll right now, still have the 3 arb guys to sign. The deal isn't bad or great in my mind, it just kind of is. The differed money makes the 3rd year far more palatable. Eh, it's really annoying when money is being thrown around based on past performance and sentimental value as opposed to future value. Konerko only came close to earning his previous $12M per deal in the final year of the deal went he turned in the best year of his career, I don't think this bodes well for his age 35-37 seasons when he'll be earning even more. This is always an interesting discussion. This is the opposite argument for alot of people. Many people look at the player and don't want to pay for future potential only for proven players. I'm not sure where the tipping point is for paying for performance or for potential but I like the discussions.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 08:23 PM) Konerko's injury is different. He actually takes frequent cortisone shots in his hand throughout the season. Its chronic. Kornerko's is a tenosynovitis of thumb tendon's. The condition is known as De Quervain's Syndrome. It causes problem's when youmove your hand from side to side (ulnar and radial deviation) which happens during swinging the bat especially during holding up a swing.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 08:21 PM) Konerko has a chronic thumb injury, its never going to go away. Lee's was a torn ligament that bothered him all season. the surgery is a routine one. It will stabilize the thumb. The rehab is straightforward. I've had the surgery myself.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 04:27 PM) The DLEE/Reliever tandem is probably the most fiscally sound decision this organization can maker here. Not to mention the fact that it makes an incredible amount of baseball sense too. The draft picks make this decision even more logical. You are on a roll this afternoon!

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) I expext the Sox to come out of this offseason a better team then they were last year. That's all that matters. ^^^^^^^^^

Sounds like as a matter of pride PK wanted more money than the new guy. If not he is going to move. PK feels if he is the captain of the team he shouldn't have to take less money than the new guy. He may change his mind but right now he isn't willing to take less than Dunn.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 03:26 PM) While I see where you're coming from, I would ask in reply...aside from the D-Backs and the Tigers, what teams have taken any steps to work on their bullpens so far? And in both of those cases, you could argue that the team really overspent. Most of the guys out there, like the whole Twins bullpen, are still available. I agree there's plenty of time. However, my concern is that if PK signs there is no money to find a quality bullpen arm and we will do it cheaply and suffer for it.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 03:18 PM) No joke, as nice as it would be to have PK in that lineup, the bullpen is the key to the season. Cannot be overstated. My fear is it takes a backseat to the sentimentality of JR. This has been my stance as well. A good bullpen can shorten a game to 6 innings while an average pen will lose games from the 7th on. However, the bullpen is the most difficult part of the game to predict as well, as many have said. While it's only Dec. 7th., I'm concerned that the is no effort to improve the pen and that willbe the downfallof an otherwise very solid team.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 11:15 AM) Between Peavy and Wood, we're going to lead the league in simulated starts. Sox better start saving up on towels for the throwing drills. Cooper doesn't follow the Tom House philosophy of pitching.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 10:42 AM) Are you telling me that if Jerry was willing to give 12M to Paulie and Paulie decided to go elsewhere he wouldn't let Kenny give the 12M to a 1B and let's say a quality reliever? 8M/4M ? Talking about next year of course. that's exactly what I'm saying. He did a similar exception for Buerhle when he went extra years. Hopefully PK will sign because if he doesn't I don't think JR will authorize the money for other pieces.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 10:28 AM) Thanks JJ!! (although in some respects I think JJ+Lee+picks would be better than Paul, but it will be nice to see Paul retire in a Sox uni). I think what some people are forgetting is that while JR will give PK 12-14 million, he will not give it to someone else. If PK does not take the contract there isn't 12-14 to spend on Lee + relievers. JR has a history of offering his own guys more money that he will not authorize to spend on others players. So if PK does not come back do not expect an equal amount of money to go to others.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 05:07 PM) A bad anything can ruin a good team. How many teams out there have A+ bullpens? Not many. If the season started tomorrow I'd be worried. Not right now. Maybe but talk to the Atlanta Braves of the 90's about being able to piecemeal a bullpen together. It's not that easy and it can ruin a good starting staff. I agree I'm not worried yet but many teams are looking for bullpen help and the price will go up. With signing Dunn and possibly PK, there won't be much left to get quality.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 04:51 PM) Why is everybody freaking out over the bullpen right now? lol. Putz obviously was looking to get paid and I'm glad the Sox passed. It's December 6th. We've got 3 legitimate relievers right now. I'm sure will pick somebody up. As sad as our system is, we do have some arms that at least deserve a shot. Bullpens can be piecemealed together rather easily, and more importantly, cheaply. A bad bullpen will ruin a good team. Especially with a manger like Ozzie who likes to use numerous bullpen pitchers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 3, 2010 -> 08:51 AM) To me, this is my #1 standard for the HOF. I know people like to compare guys across different eras, but you can't do that effectively. If you were to take pitchers from this generation, and compare them to guys in the 60's no guy of the 90's/00's would make it. The opposite would be true of hitters. It is all about a players relative level of dominance during their playing time. RIP Ron, he was one of the more entertaining broadcasters and his passion for the game was undeniable. I don't agree that the #1 criteria should be that a player was dominate at a position. There isn't a wing in the HOF for the best 3B, 2B or SS. It should be for the most dominate players. I personally didn't see him play until the end of his career so I don't have an opinion either way. but he should be judged on if he was a dominate player in the league not just if he was the best 3B at the time.

If the Sox don't trade a pitcher, is Jackson the closer?

QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) Performance has a way of allowing people to get away with abrasive and annoying personalities. At work if the top performer is an asshole or just plain mean, you put up with it. If hes not performing you fire him. Same with Swisher, if the abrasive ass in clubhouse is hitting .210 and striking out like crazy, you trade him, if hes a tremendous performer, making great plays, and the glue to your pitching staff (ala AJ) then you keep him around. Its that simple. Performance trumps personality/demeanor.........im not saying I agree I'm saying we know thats how it is. I agree. We aren't talking about Ryan Howard or Albert Pujols. These guys could get away with it. Hudson doesn't fall into this category.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) And Jessica Simpson has an awful voice, but....... Orlando Hudson is going to give u .280/.350/.420 and is a plus defender, thats what matters, thats all that matters when it comes to evaluating him as a player, PERIOD! I disagree. A player's demeanor in a club house can make a big difference. They can cause a real division in the clubhouse and as long as you are winning it's fine. However, when the team hits that inevitably losing streak, problems can arise. These players are together all the time and it can wear on a player mentally and emotionally. Think about your workplace, if the person at the desk next to you is always complaining or is a real jerk, it has an impact on your performance. It doesn't always make a difference if the team is always playing well. But it can make a difference which is why guys like him and Bradley are shipped around even with the talent they have.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Nov 23, 2010 -> 11:30 AM) I'll say it again and again, when was the last time the Sox actually signed a top-tier free agent? They don't get involved in a bidding wars in free agency. I refuse to believe we will be a top contender for any of the big boys except Konerko since he is one of own. The Sox MO is try to find free agent bargains, re-sign their own guys and trade for proven talent. They just don't do the big-time free agency thing, which in some respects is good because then you don't become the Cubs and get stuck with horrendous contracts. Albert Belle was probably the last one and that was a while ago.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2010 -> 12:35 PM) In general though, the "Inverted V" issue typically is expected to translate more to issues with the elbow, rather than issues with the shoulder. We hear about the inverted V issues for pitchers a lot, and usually it's in association with Tommy John surgery. A fair number of people, especially hard throwers coming up, have that same issue, and this injury for Peavy still remains quite unique. That's why I asked Pt exactly which part of his mechanics he was referring to. If it's the inverted V problem...why did his shoulder go out like this, rather than something more expected like elbow trouble? While the inverted V is usually talked about with elbow problems it can lead to shoulder problems as well. The quick and large range of motion for external rotation can lead to loosening the shoulder joint capsule and lead to increased wear and tear. However you're right about the elbow because most pitcher's compensate but not bending the elbow enough and bringing the arm through that way. It leads to stress on the elbow. I don't think any of this had to do with this unique injury. It's more Peavy's penchant for dropping both down to gain movement that worries me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2010 -> 08:28 AM) Pt, I'm trying to understand exactly where you think the injury happened here. My impression was that Peavy's mechanics were never that great, but he had survived with them for several years. This year, Cooper had him trying to improve his mechanics in the spring, and he came out and struggled. Then, he tried going back to what he was doing before, but started complaining about shoulder tightness during the couple weeks before things finally snapped. Are you saying that his injury came about due to his mechanics during the couple weeks before the injury when he was complaining about tightness, or are you saying this injury is related to his longer-term mechanics issues? As many of the previous posts have said his mechanics aren't great to begin with but they aren't too bad. Most of the research on mechanics shows that the more you drop your shoulder and straighten your elbow the more likely you are to have injury issues. the biggest problem I have with Peavy is that he likes to drop down to give the hitter a different look. Cooper tried to limit this early in the season and Peavy was nit having a good season. He went back to his old style of pitching where he would frequently do this and that's when the shoulder "tightness" issues began to show up. On the pitch where he ruptured the lat tendon he really dropped down. His injury will heal and he'll be 100%. I'm just not sure if he can pitch effectively without "dropping down." Whether it's the movement on the ball or mental, he doesn't seem to be able to pitch effectively without it, at least not with the Sox. Does this clarify it?