ptatc

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jun 21, 2005 -> 10:42 AM) I've said it before & I will say it again. We did not get enough for what Carlos Lee was worth at the time. Milw was not the only team calling Kenny. There will several suitors for Lee. I don't think you realize how much you overpaid. You traded a guy coming off a career year who was clearly the MVP of a team for the NL's SB leader who was coming off a bad year at the plate & a average at best relief pitcher. The PTBNL was a joke. The Brewers had to be laughing their arses off as soon as KW consented to the deal. That had speed on the team to compensate for the loss of Pods. To them it was no big deal. Getting Lee was huge. The fact he is leading the NL in RBI is something they themselves couldn't have dreamed up. If it had to be Lee (I'm still not convinced of that) then we had better be getting 2 solid RP with Pods. In all trade talk starting from last July it was believed that a team had to be willing to give up a #2/#3 starter for Lee. If you're going to shift that focus to a SB leader then you better damn well be getting top of the line help in relief. 29 yr old RH Mike Wise 04 2.93 NPERA, .659 OOP 26 yr old RH Mike Adams 04 2.95 NPERA .666 OOP Luis Vizc 04 3.34 NPERA .724 OOP Pods+Wise+Adams for Lee is reasonable. The Bullpen could have been: Hermy, Wise, Politte, Cotts, Marte, Shingo You have the option of bringing Adams up when Shingo struggled. How many losses do we at the hands of poor pitching by Luis? At least 6. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=6291 All 1 run games & all games where Luis gave up 1 or more R. Mike Wise leads the NL in NPERA for relievers this year. Cost? $350K I don't want to hear that KW couldn't get these guys. C Lee 04 RPG 6.70, 103R, 99RBI, 310TB S Pods 04 RPG 4.34 85R, 39RBI, 233TB When it comes to trades the NUMBERS mean a whole LOT more than potential. When you make a trade you can only get what other teams are willing to give. You can think Lee is worth more but if the other team doesn't agree it's not going to happen. KW's priority was getting a leadoff hitter and decreasing salary to sign pitching. I'm sure that if another team had a leadoff hitter he wanted with better package he would have done it. There are other complicating factors, mostly Lee's salary. I'm sure the 8.5 million on a short term contract scared many other teams away. Another factor may have been Lee's attitude. If you believe Ozzie's, KW's and Buerhle's comments after the trade (assuming they all weren't just doing spin control) they wanted to get rid of him. It had nothing to do with hitting, everyone agrees his hitting stats were and are superior. But if the attitude leaked out, this also decreased his trade value. Overall KW accomplished his goal, got a leadoff hitter and a percieved good bullpen arm and decreased salaryto sign needed players. He probably could have absorbed some of Lee's salary and gotten a better package as you stated but I think KW wanted the money to sign the proven major league players.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 04:23 PM) Who is a free agent at the end of the year... Cotts is under contract for a long while and politte has an option next year which we will be picking up. Third base is not as big of a need as a bullpen arm contrary to what many believe. I mean i really hate cruddy but he is the least of our problems at this point in my opinion. Exactly, a good bullpen can take a team a long way. Especially if our starters continue to have trouble. Keep the relievers and add to them. This is how we WILL win

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 03:51 PM) Exactly.........how long can you expect a side-armer to be useful/reliable? Name 1 who pitched well for a long-time? Dan Quisenberry, Kent Tekulve, the guy who had the record for most games pitched at one time

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jun 13, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) The most pressing need for this team is a sure-fire reliever & not a starter. Our starter's era is a 0.25 better than the Twins. Our reliever's era is nearly a full run worse than the Twins. Our pen has 3 guys having career years in Politte, Cotts, & Hermy. Will that last all season? Who knows. Nathan, Romero, & Crain instill more confidence for the Twins. The next 3 are struggling: Marte, Viz, & Shingo. Will they turn it around? Probably not all 3 of them. So we have at best a pen that is better than most but a far cry from the Twins. Guardado would be a nice addition. But if we could land two fine arms that would be best. Exactly, bullpen is a constant need. You can never have toom any good arms there. Good bullpens can determine the outcomes of seasons. Just ask the Braves all those regular season wins and bullpen implosions during the playoffs.

Dale Svuem (sp) Tom Seaver Steve Lyons Steve Stone Jorge Fabergas Dave Gallagher

My green alex fernandez jersey from when they played on St. Pat's day then autioned them for charity

This goes so fast is it an option for the chat room?

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 12:44 PM) Crede is NOT a GG 3B. Nor will he ever be a GG 3B. Crede might be the best 3B when it comes to fielding weak grounders that he can charge upon. He's good at scooping it up & firing a strike. But he is below average when it comes to a liner near the bag or in the gap. Even worse he is out of position 9 times out of 10 when it comes to receiving a throw at 3B. Some people think he's scared because he refuses to protect the bag. I just think he's stupid. When you sum it all up he's above average at best at 3B. If I were the opposing manager I would run hit & run plays & steal froms 2nd all the time. If he's not going to protect the bag then it's wide open for the opposition. Replacements: Crede is so piss-poor as a hitter right now that all other ML 3B are suitable. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...in=17&ageMax=51 What I don't understand is why do we think guys who just recently signed new contracts are available? Chavez 66M/6, Lowell 32M/4. Crede is 6/61, Lowell is 8/36, Chavez is 10/50. In the minors ... http://minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/st...t=l_bat&lid=117 Trace C 31 yr old CHA .321O, .459S, .286A Slim pickings but maybe he can platoon with Ozuna while Crede figures it out in Charlotte. Crede may be stubborn and thick headed but he is not stupid. He has not played up to his abilities and probably should be replaced. Evaluating his play is one thing. Judging the man is another. Unless you know him personally stick to your beloved stats and stop with the dumb-ass judgmental comments.

I wasn't trying to start anything I was just curious about the strange event. It may very well be normal. If a mod reads this please erase the thread. I don't want to start a rumor.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 06:18 PM) We know who I'd pick, how about you? You and I were the two who said that they would send Willie down. That being said I would prefer they waive Timo.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:25 PM) Nah, I think they're fine, I've seen it done before this year. Ok just curious, maybe I just haven't been close enough attention

I sit in the left field bleachers and have worked innmuerable baseballgames. The starting pitcher as near as I can remember always long tosses with the starting catcher in the OF before the game. Today Garland long tossed to Man Soo Lee while AJ warmed up with Art Kuysner. Garland stood next to Art while AJ was next to Man Soo. Does anyone recall seeing this before? Is there animosity between Garland and AJ? I just don't recall seeing this before and was curious.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 08:00 PM) Closet carpet muncher. You know what I'm sayin'. Didn't the husband (Dick Sargent I think) Swing from the left side?????

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:54 PM) If Hernandez starts the 7th inning, Ozzie should get punched in the face by every member of the team. Would it help to undrstand what he says?

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:51 PM) Agent 99, Barbara Feldman, boner in 4th grade, are you kiddin' me? Oh Yeah (but on reruns)

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:28 PM) I hope he has a compression fracture of his third metacarpal. Where is ptac when we need him? Me thinks I am a victim of sarcasm

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:28 PM) I hope he has a compression fracture of his third metacarpal. Where is ptac when we need him? Right here Jim. I haven't read the whole thing. What's up?

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) I am tired of this democratic bulls***, Win as a team lose as a team. How about do your f***ing job and you get to keep your job, don't do it and your gone. Better motto for me. Right on my cynical brethren!!!!!!!

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 10:52 PM) The word I am getting is that Timo goes to AAA. We have too many OF'ers on the roster as it is now. That is the reason Ozzie had him play IB to rest Paulie, but Frank will now be the DH and occassional IB man. I think Gload is more likely to be the occasional 1B.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 10:19 PM) You don't believe it's possible he'll gain a significant amount of weight? Someone needs to hire a persona trainer to work with McCarthy over the winter months. Gain some definition, if nothing else. I look at this picture, and wonder to yourself how the hell he picks up a baseball. Sure it's possible to gain weight. But once you start getting in the 20's it's gets difficult to put on significant muscle weight. He will gain some I'm sure but it's by no means a given that he will.

QUOTE(soxman352000 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 10:00 PM) Billy Beane has to be going nuts. That was one of his two bargaining chips. now the dealing of Chavez looks to be iminent. Or he holds out longer to get what he can for the impotant chip. I agree with your idea though.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 09:55 PM) Just because your GM promotes a bad player you're relegated to play them? So, if KW, for no reason at all, adds someone like Chris Amador to the 25 man roster, does Ozzie HAVE to play him? No, because it's obvious that not playing him is more beneficial than playing him. I think you do to an extent. The GM and scouts saw something they liked in order to sign him. You needed to find out if he has anything. You tried it, it didn't work now HE GAWN!!!!!!!

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 09:56 PM) Interesting thinking just don't like the timing. Is it a coincidence that it is happening while these trade talks are heating up? Damn these conspiracies!!!

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 06:34 PM) "Danny Graves era ends in Cincinnati Pitcher becomes unrestricted free agent" http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...t=.jsp&c_id=cin I though that was the waiver rules. I brought this up earlier in the year but someone said I was wrong because of the Manny Rameirez deal. When the Bo Sox tried to release him Why didn't someone sign him for the minimum and the Bo Sox cover the rest?

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 09:51 PM) That move reeked Jerry Manuel when he decided to pitch Cotts in Yankee Stadium instead of Buehrle. That's all I thought about that Kevin Walker move. They agreed now walker is in Charlotte never to return (except for many injuries)