ptatc

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ May 1, 2005 -> 06:10 PM) Great so we can still possibly see him vs the CHC in late June. That's what I'm hoping. It's poissible. Tendonitis is tricky. It can resolve as quickly as it shows up or it can be a lifetime problem.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ May 1, 2005 -> 11:36 AM) Ok that's obviously a worse case scenario. Do you have a best case? Sure, the best would be that the shockwave works and he restsabout a week. The tendon begins to heal and with the rehab is running mostly painfree in about 2 weeks. After that he begins his minor league assignment. That is probably the best. However the fact that they needed to do the shockwave means the tendonitis is far along. I would say that a mid-June return is probably the best we could hope for but a July is probably the most realistic. Again this is all conjucture on my part but with the info out there, it all seems reasonable.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 11:53 AM) ptatc your insight will come in handy here. From all the reports I've read & I'm sure others have read as well, Frank had little to no problem with light running. Jogging or treadmill work if you will. That's why his optimism was saying mid-April back in Feb & even Mar. But then he tried doing some sprints & that's where the pain showed up. As you eluded to they are doing all they can to treat that pain. Is there any hope in the fact that he can jog but he can't sprint? Does the idea of playing with pain risk further injury? The problem he is having, hopefully is really unrelated to the original injury. What has happened is that he has developed tendonitis in the tendons on the inside of hisn foot due to the workouts. This is not a "no pain no gain situation" There is normal pain after surgery during rehab. Frank is far beyond that. This is pain that will not allow him to run without suffering consequences that day or the next. It is painful to the point that he will not be able to put much weight on it. So the light jogging may not cause pain but he will not be able to run to first without problems occurring then or later. The irony of the shockwave therapy is that is the same procedure Maggs had on his knee. The difference is that it is approved in the US for sfot tissue problems mostly in the foot but not bone problems. Maggs had a high dose treatment where he was put under anesthetic. I'm not sure if Frank had this or the low dose version where he is awake. The purpose is to cause microtrauma to the tissue to increase blood flow and stimulate healing. This is somewhat of a last try thing before he must be shut down for a long period of time. Hopefully they give the tendon time to rest and heal then continue with the rehab. As I have previously said with his history of foot problems they need to very careful with this otherwise it could become a permanent problem and career threatening.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 10:09 AM) Damn right I have a problem with the strike zone. It's a complete joke, and it's half the reason for the overuse of bullpens across baseball. WAY too many unnecessary pitches being thrown for the simple reason that umpires have lost the strike zone. And yeah, if it's a rule, CALL IT. If you're not going to call it, legalize it. I don't care if the play happens in the first 10 seconds ( or first pitch ) or the last 10 seconds ( or last out ). Call it every goddamned time, and eventually the players will either adapt or fail miserably and be gone. I don't care how it affects the game in the short term - the game adapted away from the proper strike zone, it can adapt back. Hardline? yep. Unrealistic? Maybe. Probably, unfortunately. I agree with everything you said. But as you also state it's probably unrealistic that anything will change and we will always have moments like yesterdays because there is judgement where there should be consistency.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 09:08 AM) I'm more upset when a call isn't made than when it is. The fact that it's not made on other players is irrelevant to me in this instance. In this case, the umpire was correct and that's all that matters to me. Crede's selfish reaction after the popup is far more troubling to me, because it shows that he let the ump get in his head when he was in the wrong. Still, that play didn't cost them this game. The offense was pathetic yesterday, and the defense was too. Then I must assume you have a problem with every pitch between the belt and the armpits called a ball. The umps have selectively lowered the strike zone so it isn't in agreement with the rule book. Do you also agree that any holding in football should always be called even if it' far away from the play? This occurs all the time where if it doesn't effect the play the NFL refs won't call it, otherwise games would be 5 hours long. Any way you look at it, it is the right call but they rarely call it. Wendelstedt used it to get at Ozzie for calling him a liar and knew he could get away with it because it really is the right call. Hopefully the Sox just go get Detriot and not let this send them into a death spiral for the season.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 04:52 PM) I guess those umps are geat mind readers. Oakland hit 5 batters (one after a warning) but nobody gets tossed. The vibes must have said it was unintentional. Then Crede gets hit and the ump just knows he was leaning into it. from the reports I've heard only the Sox were warned not Oakland. That is why the Oakland pitcher was not ejected.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 04:24 PM) I vaguely remember being critical of Ozzie last season for the altercation between the two, but I can't for the life of me remember what happened. Oh and let's keep this one clean. The umps didn't cost us the game. Crede shoulda been wrung up on the pitch before. If you want to b**** about the Umps, go type in all caps in another post. This thread is for intelligent discourse. Even with bad calls umps rarely cost teams games. Today's hurt but the lack of clutch hitting and the DP's is what killed us. Very good pitching kept us in it when we should not have. As for the history Ozzie has said in the past that Wendelstedt is out of position and his inconsistent strike zone. This has lead to the comments in the paper and the previous ejection.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 06:33 PM) I agree with you on all those points...but my big question is this...how do the Sox react to these 2 losses? These 2 games have been absolute embarassments. We've lost 2 games because we couldn't catch fly balls. Everyone it seems is hurt. People are getting ejected. Couple of bad calls at bases. Jermaine freaking Dye playing short. Middle of our lineup still struggling. The question is...how does the team respond? These are the kind of games that can really hurt a team for a while, and if we come out sluggish against Detroit, or if Contreras (or Hernandez if we bump him up) has a rough start, then we're looking at the makings of a losing streak, and the team might start worrying. More people might start overswinging...the pitchers might not be as crisp...and so on. Days like today are the days that test how well you're managed. Ozzie needs to get that team's head in the right place for Friday. If he doesn't...that 3.5 game lead could evaporate really quick. This is an important point. Do the Sox fold or use it to play better. In 2000 there was the Tigers fight and they used it for the better. Last year the Hunter incident happened and we folded. What will happen this year??? I'll be at the games this weekend. Will see how they play.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 04:47 PM) Respectfully disagree. "Not moving" is hardly ever called. Moving into a slow curveball, when the pitch wouldn't have hit you, is called. Watch Biggio or Fenernado Vina especially in his prime. They dive over the plate to get hit. Like you said the umps made the right call but Wendelstedt would not have made that call against any other team.

QUOTE(Sox Hustler @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 03:32 PM) Anyone in pen for sox?? Marte

poor defense will kill you

QUOTE(valponick @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 02:07 PM) I believe they would move Konerko to 3rd and put Gload at 1st. If I remember correctly Paulie came up as a 3B. Paulie started out as a catcher. Because of a chronic hip problem LA tried him at 3B. He couldn't handle it so he settled in as a 1B.

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 07:50 AM) Yea.. really. Which is why one hurts and one doesn't. And why a man is a sissy baby if he cries when having a hole put in his toe nail. I bet he cries when he get's his hair cut, too. The difference between going through the nail and under the nail is that there are no pain nerves in the nail. The actual drilling doesn't hurt if you stop at the right time. Going under the nail is not advisable because the nail bed and skin have a high concentration of nerve fibers. This is why cutting your nails doesn't hurt unless you catch the skin.

QUOTE(JimH @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 05:26 PM) Least of all Ordonez, in terms of feeling sorry for. He gets paid ... go figure. All of a sudden this guy is coming down with rather strange ailments. I mean, it can happen, but there sure is a funny smell. He was as healthy as a horse here and in addition to the knee situation, a viral ailment and a hernia. Let's get ptatc on this, he'll find out what's what. Calling ptatc. It is within reason to miss an extended period of time due to a sports herina. Kendrell Bell from the Steelers missed about three months last year. I would be suspicious but it was the Tigers physicians who called it viral, then a hernia, then not a hernia then a hernia again. It does seems odd that he has never missed any playing time until the knee injury last year then this occurs. I'm pretty sure the contract had some language about the cotract is guaranteed if he spends the 25 days on the DL due the knee this year only. After the first year it is guaranteed. If so, this may be a painful but good break for him because I don't believe his knee is healthy..

If either of those two ever got a fact correct it would be the first time. they are both full of crap. 1. They wonder wht nomar or McGwire don't sue Canseco because Bo Jackson sued a newspaper who said he used steriods and got them to print a retraction. therefore, the others used steriods. This is factually incorrect. It is very difficult to win a liable/slander case. No one knows who didn't use or used steriods because Canseco claimed it was done in provate. Bo Jackson didn't sue a paper because they said he used steriods. The paper quoted a woman who said he used steriods. The woman said she never said this, thus Jackson sued the paper because they misqouted the woman. 2. Patrick said you don't have to use steriods for home runs, look at Ben johnson he wasn't hitting home runs but he was using steriods so much it backed up his urine and caused his eyes to turn yellow. The steriods causes liver problems because it can't process them adequate and the liver problem causes the yellow in the eyes. I know they are small points but the public believes what these guys say and I wish they could get things correct.

QUOTE(WSFAN35 @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 11:41 AM) No one knows what kinda teammates either of these guys are. And I don't know if any of you remember Garland talking s*** about us fans. Some people know some of the team mates as well as other people in the locker rooms. When Garland was getting booed for past performances, rightfully so, people can lose thier temper through frustration.

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 11:23 AM) Attitude is my reason for picking Garland. I would rather have someone who is thankful for their talent and opportunity that a self centered asshole who feels he's is owed something because of his talent. Agreed. Attitude can go along way with team mates. Either positive or negative. In this case you have two califonia boys with drastically different attitudes towards others.

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 10:07 AM) ptatc.. just a bit of info I want to share.. Frank was out of his cast and in a walking boot 6 weeks before the Sox released that info. Aaron and him were working out a good month before it was reported. He was walking on the treadmill at a 7% incline at 5 mph before ST even started. These are the things that I go by when I say that the Sox are being overly cautious in reporting anything. Frank is still hurting, as I'm sure anyone would be.. but I honestly think (from him and those close to him) that he's further along than they are reporting just in case there is a setback. They are definitely being cautious.. and the scar tissue was a setback as you stated it would be. You've been on the money in responding to what the Sox are reporting. Your info is great in relation to the medical side. It's nice to have someone here that can explain those details. That's good to hear that he is that much further along than they are reporting. I'm still concerned though because it should still be further along. I'm curious about a few of the comments you made. You're right that 5 mph is barely a jog. The 7% incline implies to me that they were concerned about the the motion at his ankle and thus made him walk "uphill." This however increases the stress in his foot where the problem resides. I hope they can find someway to resolve the inflammation in the tendon becuase this isn't something you can work through. If the pain continues he will be unable to run comfortably and even a DH needs to run to first. If you can, I'd be interested if you hear anything else. You can just PM me if you wish.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 09:23 AM) I believe Frank's atrophy was to be expected. I don't believe that would be a problem if he could work his leg without pain. He may have found a way to do so anyway. Perhaps an insider can answer that question. I'm not an insider, however, I have been in the medical field for awhile. After 7 months on crutches the atrophy is definitely expected. It's not his calf that is causing the problem, it's the tendons on the medial arch of his foot near the heel. He has had problems in this area in the past. The tendon controls the raising and lowering of the arch. This is under a tremendous amount of force while running. This tendon also happens to insert on the bone he fractured. As long as the fracture has healed, which if he is running it has, they need to find a way to calm down the inflammation and get back to running. Any runner who has had this tendonitis knows how tough it is, let alone a man the size of Frank. It is usually treated with meds and orthotic in the shoes. The meds didn't work so they gave him a cortisone injection. I also read where they modified his shoes. This also does not seemed to have worked.The next step is probaly rest. I'm sure they are doing other modalities in the training room but these will not help the running. I hope Steff is right and that he is doing better than what they are saying because if not he will need more rest to decrease the inflammation. He will need to do this before he can rebuild the strength to run and begin his rehab assignment.

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 09:06 AM) From Frank's mouth works for me... I'm not trying to start an arguement. I hope Frank is closer than what they're saying. it's just that the rehab is taking much longer than it should. with his history of injuries to that foot, it worries me. Herm is normally very adept at keeping the status of unjured players out of the media but he usually doesn't feed them disinformation either.

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 09:04 AM) My sentiments exactly YASNY I agree. The primary job of the catcher is to get the pitcher in a good rythm and call a good game. Offense should be secondary. I think many catchers tend to get away from this.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 06:25 AM) The heavy movement of his sinker is the key to his season, without a doubt. Before this season none of Jon pitches had much of a different angle to them to change the slant of the hitters eyes. His fastball and change were on the same plane, so if you guessed the right speed, you would crush the ball. (which his change was usually going 400 feet somewhere) His curve also didn't have much of a break to it, and was obvious once the hitter picked up the spin. Now with the sinker he has a pitch that moves downward, with some occasional sideways movement if he cuts it, between 6 inches to a foot. He throws it out of the same release point as the change and fastball so it gives him 3 pitches that the hitter has to guess. Also the sinker and the change have pretty simliar speeds. What this does it make the change much more effective, because the hitter has to wait and see if the bottom is going to fall out if it, until he can pick his swing plane. It also makes the curveball more effective as even if the hitter recognizes the spin, he has to guess on sinker vs curve to get his swing plane, and speed of the pitch as the curve is a bit slower. Finally his fastball is instantly better, as instead of just having to guess speed, the hitter has that sinker in the back of his mind, and if he hestitates, even a 91-93 mph fastball will get past him. That sinker is huge. While I agree with the spirit and idea of the post, there are a few things to clear up. The sinker and the changeup should be thrown at very different speeds. The sinker is a variation of the fastball (two seam vs. four seam). The sinker also has a different spin than the curveball. the results of what you said are true but some of the reasons are exactly right.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 11:10 PM) Ouch -- that's rough. From the little I watched him this year, he was looking good, too. Looked like he had a real nice slider going... It's too bad. The slider will kill the elbow if not thrown properly. his mechanics with the slider is what makes it good but it is also what causes the elbow problems.

I really liked old met stadium they played in before the baggyball came to town. I grew up in Iowa and it was the closest pro ball we had. They tore down the old stadium and built that stupid mall of america. I hope the new one is half as good as the old one.

QUOTE(ISF @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 02:48 PM) Would that really be any worse than the fools that vote Vince Carter a starter in the NBA every year? Managers do it also. Remeber the year Palmeiro won the GG and played only about 30 games at 1st?