YASNY

QUOTE(Steff @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 09:35 AM) Hindsight, perhaps. Sadly the bigger problem I have is that this little girl NEVER should have had these thoughts in her head that afforded her to write such a letter. Soxy.. I'm with you.. I hate people. Anger is a natural response to a tragic loss like she has suffered.

Two words for future reference. Prevent. Defense.

Why is it that Baltimore can't seem to remember that pitching is a part of the game? This is the same franchise that had Palmer, McNally, Cuellar, etc. :headshake

AO is right about one thing. Do not count out the Twins. This year could have been the beginning of tailspin, or they could rebound and be right in the thick of it next year. I'm betting on the latter.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Dec 3, 2005 -> 02:12 AM) I really shouldn't have said anything... josh just angers me if you know what i am talking about. I'm done with it.

What a f'ed up thread. :headshake

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Dec 3, 2005 -> 02:03 AM) no he didn't. I read this article now 3 times. Juan Uribe does not command more respect than Frank. Do you get what the article is about? It is about how glade he is for Frank to be gone. He implied it that way at least IMHO. That remark about Uribe was implying that Thomas is NOT getting enough respect on his way out. A big part of reading is comprehension.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Dec 3, 2005 -> 01:58 AM) Uh huh, and when was it implied that Juan Uribe commands more respect than Frank? Morrisey just threw that name out there. I'm probably just wasting my time anyway. Affirmative.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 11:21 AM) Sorry if this was already posted. MoronisseyThis jackass is so full of s***. How did he get a job? I'm sorry but this s*** wasn't nearly as bad when Sosa left. They at least had "great" memories about him. This just disrespects Frank. To say that Frank is selfish is bulls***. He played with a ton of pain this year because he wanted to win with the Sox. Everybody has their faults. Frank is to honest sometimes but the media makes goes overboard and the stuff he says. This joke never takes in to consideration that Frank unlike some jackasses never took Steroids. He did it the clean way. My mom could write a better article about baseball and she doesn't even know almost anything about the sport. How can the media hate a player like this so much? Do you know the reason Frank wanted to become a Baseball player? Because his sister died of Leukemia. He said in his biography that he playing baseball would let him raise enough money to be able to cure Leukemia. He donates a ton of money to charities that try to Leukemia. Why isn't that talked about here? From the article: Now, as you asked hammerhead, Did you even read the article?

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 03:30 PM) You're still missing the point. Many of these "mediocre starters" have been better pitchers over the last few years than Jon has. The guy has a 4.42 career ERA and was 5 games under .500 before this year. That can't be blamed on brutal pens or anemic offenses either like it can for some of these other guys. Jon was simply brutal before this season, plain and simple. Plus he doesn't have the electric stuff that many of the guys of his status that have been getting these contracts do, meaning it's harder to convince people that he's going to improve dramatically. Another major reason that these mediocre pitchers are getting these deals is teams that are trying to improve their pitching and there simply wasn't any quality pitching on the market. This makes what little crap is out there more valuable than it really is. Do you really think that the Yankees would have given Pavano 4/40 if any one of Jason Schmidt, Andy Pettitte, Barry Zito, or Mark Mulder were on the market? What do you think the effect will be when all of them are in the same FA class? There's going to be fewer massive contracts available to mid-level pitchers because the teams that have money to spend will go after these more proven guys. Plus by the same logic you're using to claim that Jon is a $10 mil pitcher, what does that mean guys with Cy Young awards are worth? $15 mil? $20 mil? There's only so much a team is going to pay for a starter. Maybe the supremely talented starters like Pedro and Bartolo Colon (forgot about him before, 3 starters over $10 mil. BFD.) can get significantly more than $10 mil. But that's about the ceiling for someone like Jon unless he has a season that is good enough to vault him into the category of the pitchers I previously mentioned. How good do you think your fan base is going to feel if they end up paying 5/60 for Jon Garland, a guy most of them have probably never heard of? That's why teams are going to get the best guy available first. There may be some big contracts handed out to starting pitchers, but Schmidt, Pettitte, Zito, and Mulder are almost certainly going to get them long before Jon does, making it less likely that someone with a ton of cash to throw around that is pitching desperate is going to splurge on him, unless he has a big time season. The money that the relievers are making is fairly irrelevant because it's an entirely different market. That's kind of like arguing that Jon is worth $12 mil because Paul Konerko got it. They fill entirely different roles on the team, and thus the amount of money people want to pay those players is very different. There just happened to be two very good left-handed closers available, something that is usually in short supply. A soon as one of them starts a game, I'll worry about how it affects Jon's value. As for their other relievers, overpaying for decent options is nothing new. The Yankees have drastically overpaid for guys like Steve Karsay and Flash Gordon (although that doesn't look that bad now) in the past, and guys like Armando Benitez and Troy Percival were getting some pretty big contracts too. You base a large protion of your argument that prior to '05 Garland would only win 12 games per year and was 5 games under .500. Then, in a previous post you say, "(especially if you throw out wins, since that is highly dependent on other factors)" thereby discounting wins as a relevent stat. Also, more of those in disagreement have said that Jon would have to have a similar year in '06 to what happened in '05 if he was going to be a $10M per pitcher. You argue your point by saying, "The difference is going to be whether he has another 18 win 3.50 ERA year or if he puts up something like 14 wins with a 4.10 ERA. That's going to be what determines whether or not he makes more than $10 mil, not his age, what guys have gotten the last couple of years, or how badly the Yankees or Red Sox need pitching."

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 09:00 AM) Whom went to Baltimore. I'm not really sure how you can confuse Posada with Lopez Brain cramp. I'm getting old. Take your pick! Thanks guys.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 04:56 PM) Well, let me put it this way...Craig Nettles wasn't suspended over the superball incident. That I know for sure. And I read at at least 1 source that the reason he wasn't suspended was that there was no rule under which he could be suspended...I'm afraid that source I don't recall, it was back when the juicer from the north side embarassed himself with an exploding bat. I believe, though corking the bat was illegal, there was no rule in place stating that it was a suspendable offense. Then you had the MLBPA backing Nettles as well, and things were a bit more contentious back then. MLB probably had no legal basis for a suspension at that time.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 04:21 AM) Of course there's the issue of whether Thome's going to be completely healthy etc. but that's a totally different argument. I'll just ask this question. On how many major league teams, would Gio Gonzalez be a top 5 prospect? That should tell you whether or not, he's mediocre. I never said he's mediocre.

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 03:34 AM) Eight short weeks ago, the Sox closed out the Sawx in Boston! Give me a HELL YEAH! We did that "Hell Yeah" stuff eight weeks ago.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 03:51 AM) Two Words. Brandon McCarthy. Tell me what you thought of him at the start of the 2004 season? Just another mediocre prospect? Of course you can find guys who make it, or there wouldn't be a big leagues. And who called Gio a mediocre prospect? I'm just looking at the odds of him succeeding vs. the benefit of acquiring Thome.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 02:45 AM) And thats a valid point... with prospects especially ones only in A ball chances are they wont be a good major leaguer if one at all.... but to dismiss it like Jeckle did when you know nothing about the prospect is dumb and that was the whole point of all the talk. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but when you put into the perspective of "We got Jim Thome." well, I'd dismiss it too.

QUOTE(rudylaw @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) If he gets get a ring or 2 with the Sox he could go in to the HOF as a SOX. True. And if, along with that, he expresses the desire to go as a Sox, then the HOF might take that in consideration as well.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 02:42 AM) Thats true but the way I look at it.... A good pitcher will get a batter out if he is a righty or lefty.... and right now Marte isnt a good pitcher. That good pitcher is more likely to get that batter out if he happens to hit from the same side as the pitcher throws.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 02:44 AM) Hey I can make fun of Eric Piatkowski and Keith Van Horn all i want! Who doesn't?

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 07:52 PM) at least PTI is more entertaining than that god-awful jim rome. how can you respect yourself when your only job is to whine about people who are a million times the athlete you could ever dream of being...."joey harrington blah blah blah" harrington should punch jim rome in the face. As opposed to us whining about people who are million times the athletes we are, for fun.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 02:05 AM) and who exactly is "creaming" over Gio? I know the point im getting across is its foolish to dismiss a prospect if you know nothing at all about him or minor leaguers in general. And the previous poster acknowledged he is only a prospect but its dumb to call him worthless when he has obvious talent and was one of our top 3 pitching prospects. The point he was trying to make was that prospects don't usually amount to much in the long run. The odds of Gio winning 50 ML games, at this point in time, are long.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 05:41 PM) It's kinda like smoking and drinking. You know you shouldn't do it, but foolishly do it anyway. Yep. He causes phlem and hangovers.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 09:17 PM) but he was against the lefties. Plus isn't Neal Cotts still in this bullpen? He was the best lefty set-up man in the AL last year. I have said it before and i will say it again: The most overrated thing in sports is the lefty-lefty or righty-righty matchups. Who cares as long as you get guys out. Do you really think that for 100+ years that baseball managers have wrong about this? Statistically, RHH hit LHP better than they RHP. Statistically, LHH hit RHP better than they do LHP. It's been that way for a century and there are valid reasons for it.

QUOTE(dmbjeff @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 01:34 AM) u think borchard is equal to timo? i think not. i think sweeney,anderson, young and owens are probably equal or better at the major league level to timo but anderson is coming up to replace rowand and the only other minor leaguer who would make the roster is borchard because he is out of options and they dont want to have the other 3 start with the major league club unless they pull a pablo in spring training I think Borchard deserves a roster spot more than Timo. If they both hit .220 at least JoBo adds the threat of some power.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 09:00 PM) Then you really have no business talking about it. Every freakin minor leaguer is unproven including Aaron Rowand . Gio has an excellent arm and imo will either be a top of the rotation guy or not even make it to the majors. You're absolutely correct that we have no clue what will come of Gio but to dismiss him just because he's a minor leaguer and a prospect is so ridiculous. No more ridiculous than 'creaming' over an undersized Class A pitcher that can't seem to stay healthy.