Princess Dye

I'd hate to see an all-time Sox great have his legacy tarnished by this cloudy mess For a smaller example... Magglio should be remembered as one of the great Sox players (assuming we never get the conclusive call on his possible PED use). It's a shame he's vilified or at best forgotten. Ozzie did a lot of good here, and I think to say he "quit" is a shorthand way for the way people really want to describe it, which is that his feud with Kenny got him to the point where he lost sight of what was right for the team, and affected his motivation for going forward (with Kenny specifically) JR was in a position to choose between KW and Ozzie, and JR chose the guy who brought in Dunn/Peavy/Rios. The very guys that were causing Ozzie's L's to pile up. It was a bad situation and we should just be glad it's over, and that all sides can get on with it. No manager is eternal, and honestly-- this is less messy than it could have been. As strange as that is to consider.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 01:30 PM) This is an example of a columnist (who is this Rozner guy anyway?) blasting big bad Ozzie WHEN OZZIE IS SAFELY OUT OF TOWN. He's writing for an audience that hates Ozzie. An audience getting ready to follow a team with a new manager. Great. Bu what did that column say? Oz is a clown? Where's the mention of Cooper and calling him a clown? Or Rios? Maybe he's written those before or will soon. If so, I apologize. It seems to me that column was damage control for when Ozzie erupts next IN ANOTHER NEWSPAPER. His paper is not getting the next eruption story from Ozzie, so just call him a clown and pretend the next story will not be newsworthy. Even though you quoted me, I have to say this is not entirely the scenario here. If you have followed Rozner & Cowley on their Score 670 appearances, they do like to go at it on the topic of journalistic sources & integrity. This is a continuation of the battle. If Rozner was waiting to only report when the Daily Herald gets a scoop, he'd be waiting a long time. Rozner has his viewpoint, it's valid, it's just not well articulated in that article. Not convincing, little in the way of examples. Just fire.

uh...doesn't 'start the rumors' indicate it's just a joke? no need to overreact on the ones that aren't as horrifying.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) What exact supporting evidence do you need? When you have guys like Cowley reporting that Guillen continued to play Rios expressly because Kenny traded for him, instead of benching him for the good of the team, what more do you need? When Ozzie is screaming about an extension in the middle of a pennant race, what more do you need? That's exactly my point though. Something like the Rios thing you mention -- If actually it had been in Rozner's article-- would have be great supporting evidence for Rozner to use. Rozner doesn't have stuff like that. In the article. I can't judge an article based on what's in other articles, buddy. Anyone can look at a bad team and write a piece that the manager quit. To be convinced, I would need both Rozner's passion and some evidence that he really knows the inner workings of the team. I don't see that here.

Even if you agree with Rozner's sentiments, and dislike Cowley heavily, it probably still needs to be said that Rozner's article lacks meat. Not really loads of supporting evidence here for his claims.

What made Ozzie effective as a leader (taking the attention, letting his players just have to play) is as expected awful in the divorce. Lets just leave it as that.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 24, 2012 -> 04:33 PM) I wouldn't do it unless blown away. His trade value surely isn't very high right now. True, but value as far as defense is at the highest it's been for him. A team sees that, looks at the team control years, and then pictures his rookie year OBP, and maybe for the right team this is actually the most intriguing he'll be ever again He'll be 26 by late next season--the question has to be asked at some point here...

Now I understand the Atlanta Hawks' Joe Johnson contract.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 24, 2012 -> 02:55 PM) Soriano was not an abysmal, career-defining move for a GM. It was exactly the kind of move management wanted. Hmm... is your meaning that the brass above Hendry at the time called for the Soriano contract specifically, or at least called for a drastic overspend splash w/ minimal focus? I think we saw a similar thing happen to Theo in recent years, where these gigantic moves the Red Sox have been making lately almost become this expected thing and if anything take away from our ability to fairly evaluate the GM. I guess I see that, although Hendry was still a GM that only got his once-in-awhile offseasons to open the checkbook wide...

I get what you're saying, but I think most people put Dunn's 2011 on Dunn. He's a proven hitter and the contract and expectations KW had were standard. Lets put it this way. It's a failed move by a gm because it didn't work out.... but it's not an abysmal, career-defining move by the gm simply BECAUSE Dunn had an abysmal year. Abysmal career defining GM moves have to have more meat to it than this, have to show an error in judgment as they're happening (Soriano etc). Dunn's age wasn't an issue, and the contract was not bad value.

Hudson for Jackson was apparently messed up by Rizzo, but KW was a professional and went through with an agreed to component deal. That said, I understand that this does not mean we can take it off his record. It stands, and yes it's bad. Also I know you're discussing the first Swisher deal, but I also will mention that Ozzie demanded Swisher be taken off the team and KW granted that request immediately. Ozzie also responsible for giving Juan Pierre a billion atbats over these last few years.

QUOTE (daggins @ Jan 22, 2012 -> 10:09 PM) How long do you think KW can milk that particular cow? It is not an unfair assessment to say he has spent the last 5 years or so running the Sox into the ground. Very true, but that's why I only bring that out to respond to the specific post PolishPrince made. That he "drove the organization into the ground." What's happened the last few years is weak GMing, not total destruction. The huge miss that could've been avoided with closer inspection was Peavy, Rios was the bad but decent gamble (though it paid off decently in Rios' 2010 campaign), and Dunn was the sure-fire total shocker. Also through the recent years KW has had good moves Danks/Floyd/Alexei/Sale/Dayan/CQ that he fails to get enough credit for, it's just that the two worst ones have been bad enough to obscure several nice smaller moves

Oh, you

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 23, 2012 -> 10:52 AM) Right. Because I am sure you publicly go out and slam your company to the general public. Yeah, to anyone who will listen at least. But like I said, Hawk is entertainment and I do appreciate him. I don't worry about him being homeristic, it's just a part of the show that I enjoy. Just lets not try to paint him as current, completely informed or fully aware, which may or may not been the intention of some earlier in the thread. He knows what he knows, but he is history based. Which is fine for what he does.

J4L, Hawk promises optimism every preseason, and then the next year he explains how awful everything went, and how last offseason he was telling his wife in the car that last year was about to be bad. Read better or remember better, maybe both. He does this every year. Someone homeristic can criticize, as Hawk does above. But if he'd ever criticize before the year happens, before a mgr gets fired.... i mean by saving it all for later, it just comes off as more gutless or company-line-ish. Whatever we want to label it, we can all agree it's not going out on a limb or taking a chance. A dig at Albert Belle! 14 years too late! It's entertaining for me but it's not groundbreaking stuff (generally) when it comes from good ole' HH

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2012 -> 09:47 AM) The sample size of positive performance in September is equally valid for future prediction as the sample size of terrible performance was in the rest of the year, acceptable? I certainly wouldn't expect Brent Morel to be a .220 hitter who puts up a .900 OPS for his career, just like I wouldn't expect him to put up a .625 OPS for the rest of his career either based on April-July. I still think he winds up somewhere between .750-.800 with really good defense, maybe a little lower or higher if he gets a really bad or good hitting coach, and nothing I saw last year suggested why he couldn't be that guy. OK, well it looks like we're in agreement. Something happened for a month that "people were looking for" And the future is wide open, nothing last year suggested he can't be or not be a certain kind of guy. Agreed then.

QUOTE (daggins @ Jan 23, 2012 -> 09:37 AM) Also it sounds like you have a touch of Stockholm Syndrome w/r/t Hawk Harrelson. i've expressed love for my captor since the early 90s

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2012 -> 09:14 AM) Except for the obvious fact of a developing kid hitting the ball hard, which is what people who paid attention to Morel expected to see eventually, sure. Indicative of nothing. OK I will agree with you that a developing kid hit the ball hard during a month. I'd love to hear how far you want to go with how promising that sample size is. The totality of Morel's past numbers don't doom him at all, not saying that. but the numbers within one great month don't do anything yet. Unless we want our minds to take us there.

It charges me up to hear Hawk speak. What can I say. When he talks about Dunn being literally and figuratively large. Making total nonsense statements followed by harsh criticisms of what has been going on here. He's such a mixed bag and while I wouldn't do his job the way he does it, I can't help but appreciate him on some level. edit:nonsense #1 Morel's september being indicative of...anything

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jan 22, 2012 -> 09:31 PM) Another Williams bringing down an organization/White Sox/49ers. Yeah I mean I really hated when he helped end that 88 year drought, that was awful

So jordan4life you're cool with Paterno, huh? Heh.

Oney would've hated us drafting this guy. For a variety of reasons. Starting with his athleticism!

KW should go into the SF locker room and take a bat to a table

QUOTE (daggins @ Jan 22, 2012 -> 10:20 AM) Last night I was having wine and some went down the wrong pipe and I ended up spraying wine all over our new IKEA table. To bring this up..well, it's nothing-without-pics

I would always read a post written by a daggins edit: oh man i get it, your first name is dildo. love it