chitownsportsfan

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) How do you guys have so much insight into how well the White Sox internal chain of command works? Are you all ex-employees or something? here's a very candid look into how a JR FO works, from the statement on Thibs: It's a joke, you can't run franchises like this. GarPax is a laughingstock around the NBA despite many good draft picks, because of how obviously strained the relationship between Gar and Paxson is. Powerful men don't like to form consensus with "interdepartmental input". This isn't Google or Facebook, it's a sports franchise. One guy should be making the final call, yes he can take input from those below him but it's a tyranny of one, not a "consensus of information" or whatever mumble jumble JR uses.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2015 -> 02:13 PM) You think the Epstein operates without going to the Ricketts family? No way. Why do you keep bringing up how the Cubs do things? We're talking about the White Sox and how whatever the hell they are doing on the South Side has led to one of the worst 30 year stretches in club history outside of 2005 when almost everything broke their way. Whatever they are doing isn't working. Try something new.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) And JR has final say. And that's a problem. It's reality, but it's a problem. The owner should hire his people at let them work without interference. The idea that Hahn has to sit down with JR and KW before signing someone strikes me as absurd. Just give him a budget and get out of the way.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:55 PM) Do you honestly think Theo Epstein has no input on the Cubs decision making process? The question isn't that at all. The question is "who has final say"? I guarantee you that it's not Jed Hoyer. Hoyer works the phones I'm sure and does other duties but the executive at the top is Epstein. It's a traditional org chart. The Sox have more of a triangle it seems at the top with JR, Hahn and KW all making inputs. That isn't going to work.

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:49 PM) I don't think it matters. I know most people want to blame a person. They feel better if they can point to a single person for their anger/frustration. It's human nature, especially in this generation, to want to point fingers at a person. I would say "front office" and hold the entire group responsible as it is most likely group decisions. I'm trying to think of a single successful MLB franchise that has such decision making process. I agree that most likely it is a "group decision" and that is not how to do things IMO. You need one guy and everyone else lines up behind him.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 29, 2015 -> 01:40 PM) If you want to point a finger at somebody for why we aren't having a good year, the finger should point at Rick Hahn. I wouldn't necessarily endorse firing Hahn, either, but the players just aren't very good. He was aggressive in the offseason but there was too far to go. The team has the talent to compete, but we were always going to have to get lucky. We haven't gotten lucky. Some of the players that are normally not that good are once again not that good. Big shock, Tyler Flowers, Geo Soto, Conor Gillaspie, Emilio Bonifacio, John Danks, Hector Noesi, etc. aren't kicking ass out there. Good post but how much of this "aggression" was KW and JR and how much of it was Hahn? It's too bad we have little clue of how the decisionmaking process works. From the JR statement on Thibs it seems he tries to some "decision by consensus" that rarely, if ever works. I would just broom the entire FO outside of Hahn, let him hire his own people, give him a 3 year window, and see what happens.

JR turning Thibs into a martyr is one of the dumbest PR mistakes I've ever seen. They handled it about as poorly as possible and now this narrative of "oh, poor Thibs who was undermined the entire time in Chicago is now fired because he pissed off his bosses" is bulls***. Thibs was a large part of the problem in Chicago and it speaks volumes that nobody wanted to trade for him when you've got washed up has beens like VDN and JVG interviewing for jobs. Thibs just isn't that in demand around the league. He's a solid coach but he's not a long term winner for many of the reasons Ptac mentioned.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 28, 2015 -> 02:06 PM) If Chris Sale can't throw his slider more than 10% of the time without getting injured they need to have Chris Sale throw his slider 20% of the time for a month or two and then trade him. No s***. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. There isn't a single shred of evidence the Sox have some magic elixir to keep pitchers healthy. Throw the f***ing slider.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ May 27, 2015 -> 08:44 PM) White Sox Motto: The customer is always wrong. SouthSider2k has to be on the payroll. I have no idea how a fan comes to the conclusion that it's the fans to blame!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2015 -> 06:42 PM) It is the schtick. Then there is reality. Reality dictates that a team understands the nature of its fanbase and try to cater to them to some extent. It is the entire reason we have never seen a completely sell of like the Cubs can do because of their fan loyalty. It is why the team was looking for near major league ready talent in most of its deals a few years back, instead of waiting for a process that could take half of a decade or more. Even if it failed, a slow erosion of fans being better than the bandwagon all emptying at once, and stupid stuff like BLACK FLAG coming back into vogue with the more meatball portion of the population. It is why as soon as the rebuild even started to look like it was turning a corner, the team went out and bought a bunch of major leaguers at market prices in an attempt to bring back some of the bandwagon. If Sox fans want to paint themselves as smart, they have to be able to take an honest look at the whole picture, and understand all of the pieces of the puzzle, not just the parts that generate calls on the Score. If you are ignoring parts of the story to paint your narrative, you aren't half as smart as you think. But no, let's go ahead and resume the whining about what a horrible 35 years it has been, and people can't take the horrible pain anymore. WHY ME? WHY DOES OWNERSHIP DO THIS TO ME? I AM ENTITLED TO BETTER! So, your argument is that the fickle nature of the fans caused the team to rely too heavily on veterans during the last 5-7 years, and that also because of the fans, the team spent 50 million this year "in an attempt to bring back some of the bandwagon". Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically your argument in this thread boils down to "the fans are the problem".

wow, kite, can you expound on that "sell" comment? I know that JR has been slowly losing power in MLB, culminating with the Manfred appointment. Is he ready to move on?

Well, they won, good job. That said, starting to get to the point in the year where you look at pythag and go "this team isn't very good". A 5-3 victory in extras against the Jays is a nice start, but this team has a long way to go to turn it around.

Ramirez needs to sit for a couple days. He's on pace for -1.2 fWAR and his defensive metrics are the worst they've been since his rookie year. Sit his ass down and tell him that nobody on the team is guaranteed a spot every day no matter how long they've been here.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/venturo01.shtml He's a career .454 manager and 49 games under with the Sox. If the Sox can't spin this in their favor using those stats, then they should seek other careers because baseball isn't for them.

No offense to swirsky, as he's a fine professional, but if he's the new choice for play by play -- FML. He just screams vanilla to me. I'd much rather move Stone to play by play and get another color guy. Also, this team sucks, but you knew that. Hard to keep watching, in fact, I"m turning this one off. Going to go outside and enjoy the sun.

This team has so much more talent (on paper) then the 2012 team. That's why people are upset. That team was held together with duct tape and wire and depends for the all the veterans. This team was supposed to compete and right now they aren't competing. They have the worst differential in the AL. That's unacceptable. I'd have fired RV weeks ago but you all know that.

I don't begrudge any fan that wants to take a step back after the last 30 year of mostly futility but "renouncing your fanship" seems absurd to me. The White Sox are in my blood thanks to my pops, I won't ever quit them but I will vote with my pocketbook this year. When they come to Safeco I won't go to all three games and I won't plan a trip to the Cell until the prove they are a good team again. But I will continue to follow the team, no matter how bad it gets.

This team sucks right now. Please, for the love of god, move on from Ventura. Strike while the iron is hot, not before they go on some mild winning streak to give everyone false hope. This team is under performing heavily, someone needs to take the axe.

good win. Offense needs to come around however or they will continue to flounder around .500 or worse.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 22, 2015 -> 07:29 PM) Players are just playing really bad. This team is going to be out of contention in 10 days if they don't start playing better baseball. Check the saber thread, I posted a link from the HBTs today -- the odds aren't good.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 22, 2015 -> 07:24 PM) "Every organization in baseball is giving the green light to run at will on the White Sox until they gameplan a counter against it." From batting practice conversations..... DJ But it's not on the coaching staff. It's all on Hahn for Flowers and Soto. Wow. Honestly some of it is on the staff too. They have been awful holding runners.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ May 22, 2015 -> 07:22 PM) Our hottest hitter not in the lineup tonight, this games just feels like we will put runs on the board early and often Yea, runs to the fridge for more beer after another 1,2,3 inning

He should have sat the day after he asked out. Common sense.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 22, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) Good luck, Cubs have always been for the bandwagon/front runner/fair weather crowd. A team that hasn't won a WS in 100 years and last made the playoffs 8 years ago has a bandwagon? Not a good example.

A good read and sobering news for Sox fans, when you see "10% playoff odds" on Fangraphs and the like, don't blame the messenger, that's about the odds right now: http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-meaning-o...ord-in-mid-may/