chitownsportsfan

jesus, that guy got on his horse. Made it look easy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 07:15 PM) We have the talent level of a AA team we may as well run AA quality promotions. the sox' social media presence is pathetic as well. The Bulls do a good job with their stuff, not sure why the Sox are so out of touch.

It's almost impossible to get fair value back for superstars like Jose and Sale. Sure, do it if you get 3 MLB ready starters back, but if you don't? Nah.

Balta really nailed this one. So did 90% of the other posters but Balta's takes were spot on. Maybe KW and Rick should poll Soxtalk on the new manager.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 04:27 PM) And how many division titles before that? ding ding ding.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:40 PM) Exactly. Guys like Noesi, where even some of the talent evaluators here thought was a solid #4 or #5 starter. Some of the same evaluators who like to call the Sox dopes. Noesi was basically waived off of 2 teams. Not many of those guys become really good options in the rotation. And who usually makes the "I can fix him bring him in" suggestion? Cooper. He said he thought he could help Shark as well. What a joke. He's lost his magic.

Piddling change that does nothing. Lose another 8 of 10 and maybe we'll see some real changes like finding a taker for LaRoche, (start teaching Avi 1B), DFAing boni (sanchez slides to his role) calling up Micah, moving Danks to the pen and calling up Johnson, etc, etc, etc. God, I'm rooting for the tornado (as Jim at SSS put well) instead of wins, what a s***ty season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:46 AM) We might as well be upset we didn't bring in LaRussa or Leyland. That had about the same probability of happening as Maddon, which was essentially zero....unless JR was willing to break with policy and pay his manager in the top 3-5 in terms of salaries. Come to think of it, this is one area you can say the White Sox have been cheaper, if not cheap, compared to the Bulls especially. Why, I have no idea. Control? Easier to get former players to coach/manage for less money? On the other hand, Don Cooper has one of the highest, if not #1 overall, pitching coach salaries in baseball. Some perceive him to be an in-house "spy" loyal to only JR and the organization, and not to whoever's managing the team. That's not the best structure in the world...a house divided against itself cannot stand. It's not good to have the pitching coach have that much power IMO. One thing about Ozzie, and f*** Ozzie for how he went out, but he sure as hell let everyone know who was in charge. In many ways, he did take a lot of the blame off the players when things were going poorly. Thing was, Ozzie only has that one ace in his pocket when the team is scuffling to play. RV has zero from what I can tell, he doesn't make enough noise in the media to really send a message imo.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 09:46 PM) It's time to shake things up NOW Otherwise this season is over.. it already is probably too late. What a joke of an organization that past 3-5 years. It started before ventura got here but the feces is really over flowing now. Hiring Ventura was certainly a symptom of the disease, that's clear in retrospect. Goes deeper than him. I'd like to think KW is the problem, but then again Hahn is his buddy and protege and as long as JR is around... Just a disheartening f***ing situation.

QUOTE (Butter Parque @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 09:43 PM) Who cares? You are no where near ready to win. Best case scenario is that by the time you are good enough, Robby's abilities have diminished. Get rid of anything you can (except Sale because these idiots will completely miss on all players they acquire for him) and start over again. Do you read what you respond to? My first words "I'M ALL FOR TRADING HIM". I'm talking down the inevitable "Hahn sucks because you didn't turn Robertson into Joey Gallo" post.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 09:42 PM) He's pretty special and if I'm a contender that needs a lockdown guy for the 9th or even the 8th, I trade for Robertson. Get on the phone, Hahn/KW. Go ahead and name the last time a closer was traded for a big haul. I don't think you'll find a good example in the last 15 years.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 09:37 PM) There's no arguably about it he's no where close. I'm all for trading him, as he's worthless on this s*** team, but he won't get much. He'll get as much as Papelbon probably, which is a B level prospect and maybe another intriguing arm thrown in.

Remember when the org spun all that "we are loaded with SS/2B prospects" LMAO. hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Sanchez has been awful I won't bother defending him but Micah as just as bad, expect in the field. This org can't develop talent for s***. I'm piling on but f*** it, it's time to pile on.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 09:28 PM) Trade him. ASAP for a batch of good baseball players/prospects. Hahn/KW can get a good haul for Robertson. He'd be lucky to return a B level prospect. Nobody pays for closers and in this case "paying" would be getting a legit top 10 prospect from another org. Best they could do would be to foment a bidding war and get another A ball arm thrown in or maybe a MLB ready bullpen piece.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 09:27 PM) LOL nobody will comment on the point I made in my post that Danks is the LEAST of the Sox problems. If he sucks, what is the word to describe Noesi and some of the god-awful relievers and No. 5 starters this team has had the past few years? Danks gives up 3 runs in 7 innings and sucks? I beg to differ. Actually, he's among the top of their problems. He's a waste of a roster spot, a waste of around 15 million dollars, and in today's MLB, an ERA over 5 means you are DFA material. THis isn't the steroid era where an ERA over 5 means you are a 5th starter. Check the 5th starters around league, most of them are no worse than 4.5 ERA, if that.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 08:40 PM) This might be the worst offensive performance of the season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) And a good stretch at the end of last year. But he's young for his level...he'll adjust. Blah blah blah. He/it/things can't get worse, unless the Mendoza Line of .200 becomes the Cabrera RH/Sanchez Line of .100, but not sure anyone around baseball is still paying attention except scouts hovering like vultures to pick at the remains of our roster. If Justin f***ing Smoak can turn it around, anyone f***ing can. There's a cancer somewhere in this ORG wrt to position player development. I'm not sure where to start cutting, but Buddy Bell, all the minor league instructors, and RV would be a good place to start.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 08:43 PM) Yeah this has to be rock bottom. The organization is in terrible shape right now. Just having a new voice would be an improvement imo. You rarely want to change just for change's sake but I can say that when you're on a bad team you start to resent the guy in charge. Just a new voice will bring some energy. WIll it translate to more wins? Probably not, but again, there's nothing to lose. Try it.

I can't believe some of you guys are following this team day to day still. Kudos to you it's more than I can stomache. With every passing game you just have to wonder how long this coaching staff can hold on. I've very rarely seen such a dead team walking. I played on a few in college and let me tell you it's absolute misery coming to the park. Every guy on this team right isn't having any fun and that is not a recipe for success. At least fire RV and give them someone new to interact with. I say it every f***ing post but seriously they have nothing to lose, it can't get worse.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) so in other words the players are giving up b/c the problem lies in the upper management. this whole discussion on this board has now gone full circle. I don't care about any meta analysis of a the arguments on a fan message board ("gone full circle") but the bolded part is 100% true. What's the evidence? It's on the surface -- check the record in the last 7 years -- they've sucked. When you suck for 7 years straight you usually get fired, of course this is a JR run show.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 01:36 PM) You don't play a guy solely because of his salary. The manager should bench any player in order to send a message or to incent them to perform better. Sometimes a player needs to re-focus and sitting them for a game or two may light a fire. Again, we as fans have no idea how much effort a player is expending. I saw a piece recently where the Boston media were complaining about Hanley Ramirez putting in minimum work in the outfield during pre-game warm-ups. He is learning and struggling to play LF in Fenway. Typically that is not something the average fan would know. I agree but the message isn't consistent and believe me, players see it and don't like it. If I'm a Sox pitcher struggling for a job (Noesi, Carroll, hell even Rodon) John Danks should have been DFA last summer, instead, he's the de-facto 4th starter on a "contending team" because why? Oh, his salary. If I'm Adam Eaton I'm wondering why I'm the guy to make an example of when the new FA signing next to him has been not just one of the worst 50 players in MLB (like Eaton) but one of the 10 worst? Don't even get me started on Tyler Flowers, who because he's Chris Sale's butt buddy, has a lifetime pass to hit 200 and give us his usual .5 fWAR in 120 games, if that. This team is too beholden to something that doesn't produce wins. What that something is I'm not exactly sure but it's time to switch everything up.

In today's game I almost think it's a requirement that your manager be an ex catcher. Relying on Cooper and Flowers to call the balls and strikes and RV to know when to start the running game and when not doesn't seem to be working very well. The whole thing with how Parent handled Eaton rubbed me the wrong way as well and is indicative of a fractured clubhouse imo. Yea Eaton needs to grow up, play better, and not say dumb s*** like "stir the drink" but how about standing behind the guy you just committed 25 million dollars to instead of having the acting f***ing manager bench him for a career AAAA player? The whole org is a mess right now and the stench goes much deeper than just RV, unfortunately.

The Sox got played hard by Oakland for Shark, that much is obvious in retrospect. Chicago made the deal because they thought they were close to contending and thus overpaid slightly to get him. Well, not only did they not get good value, they didn't get a playoff push either. Phegley will never be anything more than backup (at best) but Semien and Bassit have chances to be solid regulars. In Semian's case he would the 2nd highest WAR on the team right now for position players. FML.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 12:46 PM) Phil Humber. Jose Quintana. Zach Putnam. Sergio Santos. Hector Santiago (if you consider where he was originally drafted) Not much lately. Whoever the scout was that recommended Q is the real hero.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) btw, that is not the way to FO works, the took Noesi as a reclaimation project and found some success. now the sox didn't think to invest and continue the rebuild b/c of what they thought Noesi will bring in. it was unlikely that the FO didn't think he would regress back to his old self. so what did they, the FO do, went out and reach for Penny and Drabek. hoping to replciate the same success. no matter how you paint it, mismanagement without a clue. He's at negative fWAR now with the Sox and if you prefer ERA+ he's at 72. They haven't found any success with him. Cooper's pixie dust is long gone, what was their last successful reclamation project, like seriously successful not just a halfway decent start now and there... I figured out of Noesi, Rodon and Danks they might squeeze out 500 innings around an ERA+ of 90. The turned out to be wildly optimistic. This team isn't firing on a single cylinder. Time to clean house.