Balta1701

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) Why did his performance not improve from the time he became a full time starter until now? Because that's covered exactly 20 games total?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) Which is why the red flag should go up. Why is Santiago being treated differently? Because he is to erratic to be a top notch starter. It makes much more sense than some silly message board conspiracy theory to wrong Hector Santiago. Players dictate their treatment in this organization. The other option could be that he was a 30th round pick and had to earn every chance he got. Might well have even gotten better as time went on too.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) If it is going to take Santiago 5 years to get straightened out, you will have to admit, putting him in the bullpen was wise. Now he's the Angels headache. Santiago throws too many pitches. You can get away with it in the minors. If your stuff is HOF quality, you can get away with it in the majors. If it is Santiago quality, eventually it will catch up to you. If he doesn't change and needs 100 pitches to go 5 innings, he isn't going to be successful. What is his excuse this year? Since June 9th last year, the entire offseason, and spring training, Santiago has been known as a starter. Hahn dumped him at the proper time. Getting Eaton for Santiago should be something that makes Hahn do some time. It is a heist. No, I won't admit that putting him in the bullpen was wise, because it literally is the opposite of how the White Sox treat their other players. It's actually sort of mysterious if you look at his minor league numbers, yeah he was a 30th round pick or something like that, but the White Sox usually take even guys they're penciling for the bullpen and push them to start to work their arms and give them a chance to do things like work on control for secondary pitches. Santiago went straight into the minor league bullpens and it looks like he basically had to force his way into a starting role, repeatedly.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) Ok? He still went to the NBA and started making millions of dollars a year earlier. He still became one of if not the best players of his time, won multiple championships and made hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't see where playing at UCLA or Florida or wherever would have made a difference. The guy's a hall of famer and based on his stats it seems like there was no reason to care whether he was in the NBA in his first year+ at all. Why do I want to, as a viewer, watch an overmatched 19 year old play 15 minutes a game? And again, that's one of the best players of all time you're noting.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) See Santiago, Hector, minor league stats. It wasn't something that just popped up when he got to the major leagues. He was a starter for the better part of the last half of last season and is a starter with the Angels and it is still happening. Chris Sale has started more games since the start of 2011 than Hector Santiago has since he was in rookie ball in 2007.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) I don't see why the NBA wouldn't just change their "one year after high school" rule to crush any upstart competitors to the NBADL. Plus any new development league wouldn't have the huge, pre-existing fanbases. What good would it have done Lebron James or Kobe Bryant to play for a college team for a year? Kobe played 15 minutes per game as a rookie and 26 minutes per game as a 2nd year. He didn't become a full time player until his 3rd year and didn't really step up and put up big numbers until his 4th year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 10:23 AM) I think the guy throwing too many pitches was a much bigger problem than the other stuff. I think that is why they tried to make him a closer, where pitch count doesn't matter as much. If Santiago could manage a game better, it would have been an easy move to make him a starter, but he can't. You can't deny the arm, but it really looks like there isn't much between the ears to match it. I think "Throwing too many pitches" was a direct consequence of moving him back and forth between the bullpen and the rotation. See how the fangraphs piece noted that Chris Sale took a couple years to really integrate his changeup as a weapon to right handers? A guy bouncing back and forth between the pen and rotation doesn't get to use his full arsenal so he doesn't get to work on control with those 3rd and 4th pitches.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 10:04 AM) Not unlike the Marquez trade...with the Yankees. They tried to hype him up, but it didn't work. Also, Zach Stewart comes to mind. Three pretty bad pitchers...especially Molina. And nothing to show for Jackson and Santos, most importantly. OTOH, between Contreras/Loaiza and stealing Quintana, we've done fairly well overall with the Yankees, haha. Those trades are not remotely comparable to the Molina deal - both of the other ones were salary dumps. The White Sox removed Swisher's contract, got him off the roster, and got back a couple of wild cards in the Marquez deal - Betemit and Nunez came back as well. The most important thing was clearing Swisher off the roster. Zach Stewart came back to the Sox along with Jason Frasor when Jackson and Teahen were dumped. Again, that was a salary dump, but we got back Frasor who, although ineffective for us, was then dealt for the guy who threw the hardest fastball I've ever seen in person, Daniel Webb. So out of that one, we got rid of Teahen's salary, got rid of Jackson, and wound up with a future closer (and Myles Jaye as well). Those trades aren't remotely comparable to the the other ones. Sergio Santos was not a salary dump. There were no other spare parts, there were no other wild cards, there were no other guys who could potentially contribute to the MLB roster along with that trade, it was straight up, one guy for the other.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 06:59 AM) As mentioned in the game thread, that pitch (1st homer) was something like the 12th in the sequence and also was the first breaking ball. That's at least the second time already this year he's been successful in yanking in his hands. And he muscled that ball out, as he didn't quite get all of it...."as high as it was far" as they described it. If you look at the replay from the side you can actually see him pause mid-leg-kick to get the timing right.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 12:07 AM) Esh.. The guy has way better AB's then most players on this team. He can work counts and take walks. He seems way mature for his age and time in the bigs. I agree that it is his spot and Beckham should be nothing more then a utility guy if he isn't traded. Unless they want to go with Semien at 3rd and Beckham at 2nd. I still think there's too much motion in his swing trigger at the plate.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 08:35 PM) Good point, but remember Selig is gone after this year. Reinsdorf might not have the same control over the new commish like he does Selig. Do we really know that? Who is next in line? Couldn't it still be a Reinsdorf family member?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 06:20 PM) It's the success part for this organization that requires change. Which to a large extent has already happened...but which hasn't had time to be reflected in a long-term big league product

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 06:22 PM) And that would be fine. I think that there could be some sort of set up where X% of revenues are set aside for health care. (IIRC there's nothing in their original filing asking for a salary but there is a specific request for health care coverage. But...if that puts universities on the hook for brain damage associated with football...they're going to run screaming the other way).

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 05:57 PM) I agree. I think that we should work to protect the kids. Things like guaranteed lifetime tuition/housing (1 degree) if you are a scholarship athlete. That way if you quit basketball/football you can always get a degree. Unlimited food, things like that, no problem. None of these kids should be coming out of pocket. One thing worth noting is that you didn't mention "health care coverage/long term care in the event of a major injury" which I would bet is probably more important to many of these guys than a salary.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 06:03 PM) Or more likely a change in talent evaluators. Which by definition would not be "consistent" as it includes the word "change".

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 05:36 PM) I mean (imo) that is ultimately a benefit that really cant be valued. These guys are getting huge opportunities, not just on the football field, but in my life. Being in a major program connects you to alumni etc and many times can get you started on a career/path you would have otherwise had no opportunity to have. I may hate things like draft age limits etc, but Im just not sure they really are employees. The problem with this entire scenario is that you can turn the language around...I'm just not sure they really are just amateurs...and be completely accurate in that statement.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) Should I take the place of Debbie Downer and say I would rather see some consistent success from the bullpen. Who might be in line to take over relief duties? (Just to stress again, part of "consistent success" is the word "consistent"...which at some level may well require a team to give guys a chance to work through early season struggles).

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 10:52 AM) You have to think it all started with the Darko fiasco (which of course was...before they won a title).

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 09:19 AM) Did you watch that special a few weeks ago about how Marvel got to where they are? It was pretty awesome how it came together. Tony Starks after credit scenes with both Fury and Thunderbolt in Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk were originally just kind of fun, and it put everything into hyperdrive Yes. But the key still wound up being that Iron Man was a really, really good movie.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 8, 2014 -> 09:01 AM) The funny thing is, it isnt like Marvel has hidden the secret. It is right there in front of you, they created a long storyboard, probably with a lot of flexibility, and have mapped out their stories with the comic storylines as a guide. DC has plenty of storylines that they can get into with Justice League. Nolan used The Long Halloween and Knightfall as his guide, The Man of Steel used the new 52 Superman origin as inspiration. I just think BvS is such a massive leap for them, with no established properties in between. Even before they got to that point, they wrote and put out a pair of good movies that set the stage for everything else. Key word being good.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Apr 7, 2014 -> 06:57 PM) Wish we could package Beckham for some pitching Given their health status, something like Beckham for Tommy Hanson or someone who's always hurt seems reasonable. Wonder what he's doing these days.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 7, 2014 -> 12:24 PM) Bulls are bringing back Ronnie Brewer for the rest of the season. This could actually be good...has the potential to reduce Butler's average playing time the rest of the season from 49 to 44 minutes per game or so.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Apr 7, 2014 -> 04:32 PM) Another distinction is that college is a choice. AFAIK, HS isn't option for most kids unless they are home-schooled and many don't even get the choice of which HS they go to. Tex can correct me but my impression is that a lot of the "world class" "NFL-Feeder" high school programs are programs that are able to recruit players from elsewhere as well.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Apr 7, 2014 -> 04:28 PM) Any chance they look at him for the pen? Could really use him as a long man. Or does he go to Charlotte to be the first man up should an injury happen? No 40 man spot I presume? You know, they might well put him in one of their minor league bullpens to see how he reacts.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Apr 7, 2014 -> 11:34 AM) It's funny how all the articles a few years ago about CS were filled with colorful analogies about his throwing motion involving chainsaws, razor blades and bags of cats, and the imminent disaster that laid in wait. Now most of them make the comment that his delivery is surprisingly "clean". So much CYA in scouting, it's often hard to tell if when they're expressing an honest opinion, or merely caveating previous wrongness. Every time I read something like this it reminds me of the discussion of how strong Mark Prior's mechanics were since he led so much with his legs that his arm didn't face a lot of stress.