Balta1701

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 04:14 PM) Retreat? How can he retreat if he's got someone on top of him beating the crap out of him? Given the facts of this case the requirement to retreat poses the exact same problems as the stand your ground law does. No one knows when the fight started or how it started. Zimmerman's story can be the exact same with the added caveat that he wasn't able to retreat because Martin jumped him and started wailing on him. He was lucky to have his concealed carry weapon on him and shoot him as he was on top of him. The deceased in this case was 150 lbs and 6'3". The shooter was reportedly over 200 lbs. And anyway, if Martin was shot on top of Zimmerman, that would have been easily determined by Zimmerman being covered in blood from having a body land on top of him after being shot. But that's beside the point. What the law ought to require is that you attempt to retreat or get out of a conflict if at all humanly possible. If it doesn't say that, then self-defense applies equally to both sides. Martin has every right to try to tackle and knock down a guy following him if he feels threatened because he also has no duty to retreat. If the kid were 1 year older he could have legally been carrying a gun and this could have been decided by who had the faster trigger finger, with the other one walking away scot-free. Martin responds physically to the guy following him (self-defense), Zimmerman attempts to respond physically or attempts to pull his weapon (self-defense), Martin pulls his weapon (self-defense) and now we have legalized the wild west. That is fully unacceptable and it takes no exaggeration to reach that point...that is what we actually know.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:59 PM) I'm not a lawyer, but in court, I see his lawyer striking that down as speculative and/or circumstantial. And the judge upholds it as such. You can speculate all you want on Zimmerman's words, but you don't know for sure. Beyond a reasonable doubt means you need to know for sure. Right now, reason to doubt exists...and without more evidence, I don't see it happening. Whatever he said that's scrambled...people are saying it was something racist, but that's PURE speculation and assumption, unless they can clearly decipher it, and it ends up being racially charged...they have nothing. Right now, it's unfair to simply assume he said something racial, because nobody knows if he did or not. That is clearly speculative, I will grant, but it is speculation based at least in part on a whole lot of research. That's not something I'd get a conviction with, but that doesn't mean it's untrue. However, I can happily use "Speculation based on statistical evidence" as a motivating factor for saying we need to have much stricter concealed carry laws to get rid of situations like this, rather than things like my state is doing (overriding the authority of private property owners to say that guns can't be carried on their property by making all parking lots legal concealed carry territory. Oh, and the guns in bars thing.).

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:53 PM) Don't worry Balta, I'll get you covered. Would have been nice if someone could have helped me out 5 years ago when I couldn't get my wife covered. (Still couldn't if I wasn't part of an employer pool, so any thought I might ever have of starting a consulting company is cut off at the knees without the PPACA, btw).

Here's today's leak, in case people were waiting for it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:53 PM) Why put more stock in this start than his previous two? He threw 104 pitches today, that's what he needed to do. He said he was "working on stuff" earlier in the preseason, then he got annoyed when people asked why he had an ERA over 17 so he went out and started no-hitting people. Doesn't mean he can't spend another start working on stuff as long as he gets the work in that he needs.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) If this leads to our really, really dumb for-profit insurance system imploding and being replaced by socialized coverage, I'm down. it won't. We're not that lucky. This will lead to a whole lot more people being uninsured and a whole lot angrier of a crowd trying to defend their health care when they're the only ones left who have it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) I'm not a big guns person (neither for or against them too strongly)... I'm chalking this up to Zimmerman being an idiot more so than this being any failure of the law. From my point of view...if he doesn't have the gun, he never starts this. The psychology on what having the ability to kill does to a person is pretty clear, they're consistently more aggressive toward conflict. Take the gun away, and he doesn't get out of his car pissed off at the fact that "These assholes always get away".

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:41 PM) I really don't hate the law, honestly...I just think this is not the proper application of it....this is a situation which would be difficult to convict Zimmerman without more evidence whether the SYG law was codified or not. And if that's the case (and I think it is), then I conclude that the concealed carry laws also have to be thrown in with things that should face reform.

QUOTE (forrestg @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) My second guessing would have kept johnson for at least the first couple of weeks going with a spot 5th starter. a little more time to decide because i think johnson could help with his lh bat in the right situation. The best pitching comes later in the season. Hitting will be our #1 problem and I'm guessing it will not be our 5th starter wh in his 2 or 3 starts will not be as much of a factor as having the right person off the bench. No way they're going to start off the season using Mr. Offday as the 5th starter, not with the durability questions on so many of the arms in the rotation. They're going with 12 pitchers even with offdays because they're so concerned about that.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:31 PM) Based on the law that exists and is in effect...it matters very much. Look, we all hate the law, but it's still the law. And that's that. You can't just choose to ignore it because you disagree with it. I vehemently disagree with laws that say I cannot walk into a Lamborghini dealership and drive out with a Countach model for free...but they exist...so I don't ignore them. And I think I've been pretty consistent here in saying the law is the problem, and this guy is almost certain to walk scot-free unless some audio guy can prove he used a racial slur or some other video evidence emerges.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:25 PM) Mark Gonzales ‏ @MDGonzales Peavy line: 7 ip, 12 hits, 5 er, 1 bb, 7ks, 104 pitches Is there a line on Stewart yet?

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) Nobody knows who initiated the confrontation, that's the problem. People are assuming Zimmerman did. They don't actually know that, though. It shouldn't matter.

Ok, yeah, so I'm posting this here to see if any of the Republicans literally break their computers. Please tell us on your new computer when you do so.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) So we can fight over more ambiguous language like "when it's safe to do so?" Let's apply that here. Zimmerman was just tailing the guy because he thought he looked suspicious. Nothing wrong with that. Next thing he knows, Martin's on top of him beating him up. He shot. Was it reasonably safe for him to leave (and when exactly would that duty start here?) Would the duty to retreat even apply? BLOW IT UP! GET RID OF IT! TERRIBLE LAW! In that case, he at least has to make the effort to retreat and be able to establish that he did so. If he can't do that and he still takes the shot, then all of the other things which led up to him taking the shot suddenly are admissible in terms of defining whether Martin was also attempting to defend himself, when under the current law, they are not, because they aren't relevant to whether or not he could have reasonably felt threatened at the moment he took the shot.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:16 PM) Very possibly. What they should do is scrap the garbage PPACA legislation and enact the NSS72 Health Plan I suggested in here when PPACA was being debated, but dammit, they just don't listen to me. I just want Medicare for everyone, but ditto.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) I guess I missed the part where people are offering tweaks they'd make to the law instead of just getting rid of it altogether. Right back to where it was beforehand, requirement to withdraw. I'd also love to see much stronger restrictions on concealed weapon permits, and the removal of that clause requiring the police to be able to firmly establish a guy's guilt before arrest.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) That's not even in question here. The question is, in the situation where only parts of this law stand without the mandate, HOW will they make their money and what effect does that have on people? They're going to have to lobby heavily to have that provision removed. It will destroy their business and they know it. Which means Congress is going to have to take up allowing insurance companies to reject pre-existing conditions, or the court will have to strike down the whole law. And whatever complicated scenario they set up, I guarantee you I'm going to call it "bill to allow people with pre-existing conditions to die". Because it will be.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:11 PM) He had five times as many innings at AAA as Chris Sale did. And the first 25 of those were in 20 relief appearances before the blue jays decided to back off and make him a starter.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 12:32 PM) Is Jordan Danks doomed to a life as a minor leaguer? He might get a decent job as a defensive backup who can play all 3 positions and hits LH on a few teams. The sox just have those roles covered for this year.

I think every year since I've joined this board, I've been above the general average pick for wins. I'm at 78.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 12:44 PM) Stewart has to prove he can get MLB hitters out whether it be in the pen or as a starter. He doesn't project to be more than a 4-5 starter for this team long-term behind Danks, Sale, Molina, Humber. If he can get outs from the bullpen this year it doesn't preclude him from being a candidate for the rotation in 2013. He's never had the chance to get AAA hitters out.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:55 PM) Everyone thought USC was embarrassing when they hired Pete Carrol. The rest was history. I really hope Illinois doesn't become that corrupt.

Yeah, pretty much. Now imagine the show gets canceled.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:57 PM) None of you would have a problem with this vigilante justice if it was Batman. Hypocrites. The batman will have to answer for his crimes, but to us, not to this madman.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:55 PM) They have this already ("aggressor"). I cited to the applicable law a long time ago. And i'm speaking more generally about the fact that people think this law is dumb because of an incredibly unique factual situation. Go back to the beginning of this thread - i'm in agreement with you. The police and county attorneys royally f***ed up here. Doesn't mean we should go crazy in response. How can they possibly respond when they have an injured shooter, a shooter who says that the kid he was chasing initiated the conflict by throwing the first punch and jumping on him, supposed witness confirmation of a struggle, and a law that says that they can only make an arrest in the event it is crystal clear that the shooting was unjustified? The additional statements that were "leaked" last night only make it more clear that the police have zero options here.