Balta1701

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 11:00 AM) What? Of course it's size gives it increased significance! How can you question that with a straight face? A 401k plan is much simpler to understand as well, there is no 100 page stack of things specific to YOUR 401k that you need to know about... the same rules apply to ALL 401k's, except some slight differences in fees associated with the agency. A mortgage is simply not that standardized. Furthermore, losing financial investments like 401k, or stocks, has the possibility of principle loss alone. Mortgage has that PLUS lots of other risk. Your comparison makes no sense. Health insurance? You are not signing a 30 year contract for that. You are taking what is available to you, which is often only one choice or a few, with very basic differences. If you don't want them, you get none. ??? Are you kidding? I have 40 page documents on investments and what is involved in my health insurance plan sitting on the counter beside me.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 12:35 PM) Baseball revenues soared after the '94 strike? Didn't take the steroids era to draw people back into the game?Depends on your definition of "Soaring".

It took me more searching than I want to admit to realize that post referred to San Diego Padres GM Jed Hoyer. I can't say I knew that one off the top of my head.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 10:49 AM) Wait. Like what? If entering into a contract that on average costs $200k over 30 years is large an important, then how is entering into a contract that on average costs $150k over 30 years small and negligible and not worth legal consultation?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 10:27 AM) No it does not. And no one other than you is saying you need a lawyer for everything you do. I said it was smart to have one for something as big as a mortgage, which for most people is the biggest financial transaction they will ever make. I cannot believe you are resorting to this sort of hyperbole. Do you really not see how it is important to go through life understanding basic finance? A lawyer at closing is NOT there to teach you what an ARM is. That rests with the consumer. The lawyer is there to look for some buried clause or hidden cost in the note somewhere. The fact that a mortgage is "large" doesn't give it some sort of incredible increased significance. People are regularly entering contracts for financial products that last for decades. The average price of a U.S. house is close to $160k. The average retirement savings is about $70k, but you haven't sat here and told me how I needed to consult a lawyer before establishing a 401K plan with Fidelity. Hell, I'm pretty sure I asked and no one here told me I needed a lawyer for establishing a retirement plan. The average family pays >$5000 a person for health insurance, which over 30 years comes to $150k, but same deal.

Perhaps.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 10:21 AM) Not sure if this counts, but in 5th or 6th grade I had a teacher tell me the moon didnt rotate. Something didnt seem right. It does indeed rotate, but at the same rate it revolves around the earth, so the same side always faces earth. Which, seems almost impossible. That doesn't happen by chance. We call that being "Tidally locked". Through the fact that the Earth and Moon have tides, the energy that used to go into rotation of the Moon has dissipated over time. Tidally locked planets/moons should be fairly common around the universe.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 10:09 AM) I think you're just stubbornly ignoring the argument here. Why? In terms of total money involved, taking out a mortgage on an average house is about the same order of magnitude as the amount you spend over a lifetime on health care costs, pay in taxes, and required for a normal retirement. If legal consultation is necessary for one of them because of the amount of money involved then it ought to be required for all of them.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 10:03 AM) Then I would like to note that's because you chose to take the topic from the very basic sense and took it to an extreme example to get to that point. If "Taking out a mortgage" is the "Extreme example" in terms of the requirements of financial literacy, then we're truly screwed.

I'd like to note one more time. This whole discussion was started by people saying how bad it was that the average person isn't financially literate. Then it immediately moved into "Well in this case you need to talk to a lawyer and anyone who doesn't do so is crazy". This second statement totally and completely undermines the first. Financial literacy is useless if you can't manage to understand the contracts you're entering into without additional consultation. If the 2nd statement is true, then what ought to be taught in high school is "Never enter any agreement without a lawyer present."

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:56 AM) Terrible attempt. No it isn't. Every time you guys rant about job-killing regulation...this is exactly what you guys are ranting about. New rules that require certain types of information be available in mortage documents? You guys hate that. A whole agency which is devoted to making sure that documents could be understood by people reading them? That's the worst threat the financial industry has ever faced and its creation must be blocked at every step.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:51 AM) They're getting there actually. And there are new laws in place concerning the amount of information that you need to be told as you fill out the various mortgage and loan documents. Just more job-killing regulation.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:49 AM) LOL, are you serious here? Not one of your three examples is anything like what you were laughably claiming (that banks would build in, and want to, foreclose on paying mortgagees). One is a check lost in the mail, another is a credit rating issue and bank stupidity, and another is a good example of a re-fi assistance program gone horribly awry. And do you seriously think that none of those are possible results of simply taking out a mortgage in good faith? I did not allege in this case that "Foreclosing" was good for the bank (although it's been a great thing for the foreclosure servicers). I alleged that having the contracts so incomprehensible that even people with legal training can't figure them out gives the bank hundreds of ways to take advantage of the terms. If they lose 1% extra to foreclosures but they can get a higher price on 50% of the contracts when they sell them, then the incomprehensible terms provide them a huge advantage.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:43 AM) Great. Then will Obama be providing the 30 million lawyers to understand the health care policies that he is forcing people to sign up for? Or they could just require that the documents are written in a way where screwing people is legally impossible. Did you consult with an attorney when you received/purchased your current health care policy?

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:06 PM) I was trying to frame a post that showed that K-Dubya and Dunn were screwed and they actually should have been placed much higher, but, 8th is about right. With another .150ish season, and he moves up to the top 3. Except at that point he'd only h ave $28 million on his deal.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) Nice to see we have gone from having a lawyer present, to a five million dollar legal team. Nice. Nice to see that you agree there will be no benefit to having people take financial management courses as required in high school. If having a lawyer present is 100% necessary as you say it is...then it ought to be a requirement. Perhaps we should establish some sort of consumer bureau dealing with the financial industry who could come up with those requirements, for the protection of consumers when they are entering agreements in financial products.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:33 AM) And you don't seem to understand that this is exactly how it is in any legal situation these days. Clearly then having people simply take classes in basic financial management in high school won't do jack squat, because if you can't actually manage your own finances without a $5 million a year legal team, knowing how to balance your checkbook won't stop you from being screwed over by that industry.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) If you wait a few more weeks, that all changes. Correct me if I'm wrong but something I've read said that the Cubs wouldn't give up their MLB-level guys.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:27 AM) Because the law doesn't require that for anything. Or will their be a lawyer present when we are all required to sign up for health insurance under penalty of the law? And you guys don't understand how everything you've just said means that actually purchasing a house even with a legal team is an insane decision?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:11 AM) 1. No, you can't find stories like that, because that would be absurd even if the banks were as evil as you make them out to be. They'd lose money. Stop. Giving. Them. Credit. 2 3 And these aren't ones who were told to start making a different payment.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:11 AM) 2. If you take out a mortgage tomorrow and don't have an attorney sitting next to you like you are supposed to (one who knows about real estate law), then you were stupid - and needed a class in finance as I noted earlier. Then why the Hell doesn't the law require a person to consult with a qualified person beforehand?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:13 AM) Those two things aren't similar at all. More accurate would be a full health care policy, or federal regulations on health. What you are talking about is more akin to going on a banks website and seeing their rates and basic exclusions. And how many times were banks able to shunt people onto sub-prime loans when they would have qualified for prime loans? Seeing the bank's rates and basic exclusions is like seeing the U.S. recommended daily allowances but having no trust in the actual numbers presented. It's like dining at a fast food place.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) The fact that the first thing you do is bring up Joe Cowley is the very reason Cowley still has a job. Love him or hate him, he's popular. In much the same way that Cancer is.

Maybe the world changed more drastically than I thought while I was gone, but when did Y enter the alphabet after L?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 08:51 AM) Sort of funny how this works... Theo has a massive rebuilding project in front of him as it is, but in order to even have the privilege of taking a shot at it, the already-thin minor league system with the Cubs has to be thinned out even further. If the Cubs's 40 man is off limits, and the people from this year's draft can't even be PTBNL'd yet, then I'm not quite sure it matters.