Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 2, 2011 -> 09:07 PM) Because its not a huge victory. its a Pyrrhic victory. Osama is a small time b****, he never even killed a 100,000 people. He just happened to kill our people, and when that happens it is natural to want revenge. But revenge does nothing but kill more people. This whole thing started because we all wanted revenge, blood feuds never end well, some one has to be the one who buries the hatchet (how is that for a run of cliches). It's not? Aw s***, Gandhi, where were you yesterday? You could've stopped all of this trouble if you had just informed every other American that this isn't, in fact, a huge victory. I'm surprised nobody has ever informed me that Soxbadger is the person who determines the size of victories. The fact that you would even argue that it's not, at the very least, a huge moral victory, I just don't know what to say. You love to argue anything, so I'll just assume that you're playing devil's advocate for the 800th time on the board.

Beckham looked really hurt.

QUOTE (Andrew @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:59 PM) I'm probably not, but you DID say you loved reading every word of the article... I wouldn't have lined the cat box with it. I love that emotion. Reading his article reminded me that we average guys aren't the only ones who are ready to flip out.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 2, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) Its not an absolute, its just if it could cause 1 more terrorist, who may kill more people, why do it? (edit) That is the rationale argument, the moral argument is clearly against celebrating. All you have to do is look at the quote I posted about what god said to the hebrews after they left Egypt. You dont cheer for the suffering of others. Thats been a judeo christian rule since almost 6000 years ago. I bet they'd also like all of us to convert to Islam. If we don't, it might also cause 1 more terrorist to kill more people.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:58 PM) So, what good came from the celebrations? All it may have done is piss people off, there is not one thing that the US concretely gained by going out and celebrating as if we actually won or accomplished something. I can point to a concrete example of why this could not only hurt America's perception, but also could result in more American deaths. What can you point to as a concrete example of how this will help Americans? If you and your friends want to go to a bar and get drunk, good for you. But going out and acting like that, when we know how many innocent people have died at both Osama's and the US's hands because of this nonsense, does nothing more than fuel the flames Ill celebrate when they pull the troops out of Pakistan and Afghanistan, Ill celebrate when they end the War on terror. Until then, we still have men and women out there who are risking their lives, we still have innocent civilians being killed on both sides. Its not over, and until its over, Im not celebrating, because I dont celebrate the death of anyone, I celebrate those who do great things, I wouldnt give Osama the honor of celebrating. Celebrating his death does nothing more than make him out to be more than he ever was. Just stupid person who got lucky, hes no super villain, hes nothing. It certainly made me feel good and it united large masses of the American public in a way that we haven't seen in a long, long time. And isn't the way to fight terrorism to not let their potential actions change the way you do things? If we had this huge victory of killing the world's most prolific terrorist, we should suppress our jubilation because it might irk somebody? No, we show our happiness with the situation.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:56 PM) Just because we are dealing with savages like Osama doesn't mean that we need to behave like savages. Haha, oh we're such savages.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:53 PM) But you realize just his death (among the deaths of any of them) is used for this propoganda anyway right? Here's an example: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/hamas-condemns-ki...-110039788.html Hamas didn't need to see the "blood thirsty" celebrations to spread their recruitment message. His death alone did that. So maybe we shouldn't have killed him because of how it makes us look in the muslim world? Sqwert posted an article earlier where the writer basically said that.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) If you cant see how this will be used by,a terrorist, than there is nothing else to say. In my recruitment video, Id show a picture of dead civilians and then US people cheering and shouting. Propaganda isnt about the truth, its about what I can make the truth Regardless it isnt about the terrorists, its about us. I thought we were better, I thought we came from a nation that feels the suffering of all of those who suffer. Maybe we are no better. But that doesnt mean I cant strive to be better. I'm sure they already have those videos. So?

QUOTE (Tex @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:41 PM) The President of the US is the #1 terrorist in some corners of the world. If they killed him (either Bush or Obama) what would the US reaction be? Hey, he was the #1 terrorist in the Arab world, so we're cool with them celebrating? You do get that the US looking like Muslim blood thirsty terrorists is exactly what they use against us? Earlier we killed Qaddafi's grandchildren, how do you think that played out? Again, the wonderful part about America is we can celebrate like this, we have the First Amendment, but those celebrations will help terrorists recruit and receive donations. I didn't know that. Awesome.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:22 PM) I love how we're concerned about pissing off people that want to kill us. Yes, let's be really worried about pissing them off more. Seriously, if this were a regular, run of the mill terorrist killed on the battlefield, then sure, you make a good point. But this was an enemy of the world. This was an enemy of the religion he was supposedly protecting. These concerns do not apply and any sane person in the world would understand his death and the happiness it brings the American people, who suffered the most because of him. Have they showed much reaction abroad on the news? Were there impromptu celebrations in other countries?

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:05 PM) That I can agree with. I don't think he is the problem but if things don't change soon changes will need to be made. To be fair, I don't think anybody blames only Ozzie. Perhaps that is the perception to outsiders, but I believe the vast majority of us think exactly how Andrew put it.

QUOTE (Andrew @ May 2, 2011 -> 07:13 PM) Yeah, and that's the line he premises the entire article on which is what I think fires me up. I'm tired of hearing that it's on the players. That's the easy excuse. Everyone in baseball decided there shouldn't be a cap, the union guarantees and rules are what they are, everyone agreed, and that's how it is. They are overpaid children, but that doesn't change the fact that Managers are STILL RESPONSIBLE to be sure your team is prepared, executes, and gets the results. I run a business - I wish I had the luxury of going - "Ah well, even though the $ on top notch marketing has been spent, we put together a great product, got the phones ringing, generated interest, but the sales guys just aren't closing the deals" all the while managers, systems, and resources are also being paid for with no repercussions for anyone. Especially when that "talent" has demonstrably proven it's ability to perform in the past. It's bulls*** and it doesn't apply to any business or product anywhere else in the world, yet this s*** keeps getting shoved down our throats. KW has been changing bodies and even went so far as to go against his entire team building philosophy just this past year. He's right about the same results; he's wrong about changing bodies under the laundry being the solution. I'm not sure if you're familiar with my entire body of work here on Soxtalk, but you're preaching to the choir.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 2, 2011 -> 07:54 PM) Who do you think is going to win the division? I'm not trying to trap you or argue with you, I'm just interested in what other people think. Personally, I still think it comes down to the Sox and Twins. Am I drunk? I'm leaning towards the Tigers at the moment. The Sox can win this division, but only because it's become the Comedy Central again. I know "anything can happen once you get to the playoffs", but this team would get embarrassed worse than they did in 2008.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) Who is out to get the sox today? What do you mean? What I'm saying is that Hawk doesn't even seem interested. Even on those homers, he sounds like "meh"

QUOTE (Wanne @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:03 PM) HOLY CRAP...Kevin Buckman flashin' the leather!!! I don't get it. We should just call him John Peter.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ May 2, 2011 -> 04:33 PM) I STILL say this year the White Sox will eclipse that 88 win total from last year. I have faith. That'd require a .594 winning percentage for the rest of the season.

Hawk does not seem to give a s*** anymore.

QUOTE (kev211 @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) Not really seeing a problem with a celebration that caused zero vandalism and zero arrest. The police blocked off the streets so we could celebrate. I guess chanting USA and the singing the National Anthem of this great nation is too much for you though. You've admittedly said you don't feel a lot of patriotism for america though, which is why you probably don't agree with the celebrations. I however felt a great amount of patriotism last night by participating in those chants. It was more a celebration of America being awesome than the death of Osama. This event took our generations innocence away, and for the last decade we've been dealing with wars that our generation is fighting in(including some of my friends), a broken economy and dealing with graduating into a horrible job market. So forgive me for wanting to celebrate and feel patriotism for our nation when its been kind of hard to do that the last 10 years. Really?

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 2, 2011 -> 06:59 PM) I guess? My argument is more to the point of it's useless to make 17 threads about why he sucks and waste bandwidth over the situation when if it REALLLYYY doesn't matter in the scheme of things, why bother b****ing about it? Further, Greg freakin Walker isn't the reason why this team is losing games. I guess I'm tired of every slump it's the same rehashed arguments, like people never learned anything the first six times around. They come out of the slump and hit. Then when the team starts hitting the loudest fire Greg Walker people are the LAST people to give him credit. If you want to rip him when they don't hit, praise him for when they are. Well yes, they eventually come out of it. But the story is usually the same in the end, they wind up losing the division. The extended slumps are a major factor. And I understand that you don't believe firing the hitting coach would make a difference, but some of us actually think it could help to light a fire under the individual players. You may disagree with that (I know you do), but it's a theory that many hold.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 2, 2011 -> 06:53 PM) I thought I might get dinged for that word. I tend to agree with ya anyways. Bah it's Monday and I need a drink. The bin Laden thing came at a pretty good time. I'll just leave it at that

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 2, 2011 -> 06:54 PM) If it were Minnesota or Detroit they were 10 games behind, I may consider it a lost cause, but its Cleveland and KC. I just cannot believe they can't make 10 games up on them, and they are 2.5 behind Detroit. That's one series. Surely, but hope is fading fast. QUOTE (Andrew @ May 2, 2011 -> 06:53 PM) I hated every word of it. If he put more than 10 minutes into it, actually, I'd be shocked. Name everyone, say trade them, but not mention that more than 1/2 the names he calls out are fairly new to the big league team (Beckham, Rios, Dunn, Alexei) but somehow all are inexplicably sucking at the same time while you ignore the irrefutable one thing that has been consistent the whole time that the team enacts "the same old choking story." This guy can get f***ed - stupid ass article. Colby Rasmus.... ok, douchebag. I don't like how he gives Ozzie the free pass, actually. The same old choking routine has got to fall mainly on him. He's pretty much the one constant.

I know this is going to come off as pretty cliché, but people just need to stop being such p*****s.

THANK YOU! While I still think it's too early to pack it in, I loved reading every word of that article.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) Yeah after hearing how it went down this morning, I assumed it was a giant "f*** you, we know you're in bed with him" to the ISI. Yep, and I love it. I'm not sure if there is a better example of speaking softly and carrying a big stick.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 2, 2011 -> 05:47 PM) Because firing someone to "fire people up" is the second stupidest thing behind "fire the hitting coach." Point being, if it worked they guys would get fired all the time and managers would get fired as much as NHL coaches. They don't. Have you ever worked somewhere where your boss was fired? It sure as s*** didn't make me work harder because I analyze statements and because well I was already doing my best before. It makes for a more tense situation at work and made me dread going to work for a time. But I liked my boss so there's that. Is it stupider than using the word "stupider"? I was always taught that that wasn't a word, but now it has been accepted into the English language. Off topic, yes.