spiderman

Wow! I have to say that I'm shocked. McCarthy was ready to step into the rotation, and while I know those pitchers they got back may be ready to pitch in the majors, and have good upside as well....what does this mean for next season ? Are we taking a step back, still a good team though, to hopefully watching all these young pitchers develop into big time players in the future. What is the rotation next season with all these changes and where does Mark Buerhle fit ? Is he going to be moved before long ?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 22, 2006 -> 04:08 PM) Huff is supposedly looking for a little more than $7M per over 3 years. That sounds like a bargain in this free agent market - I'm not sure how he is defensively, but he can't be any worse than Pods - of course, if we did sign him, and he played LF, who would bat lead off then ? Free agent Aubrey Huff has reportedly lowered his asking price from $36 million for four years to $23 million for three.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2006 -> 03:13 PM) John Edwards will do his official announcement of his candidacy from the lower 9th ward in New Orleans, sometime in the normal media vacuum between Christmas and New Years. (I hope it's a media vacuum that is, considering what happened in that spot 2 years ago). I'll give him credit...it's purely symbolic, but that's exactly the place politicians should be focusing their attention (aside from that little disaster in the middle east of course) Edwards time has come, and gone. He's spinning his wheels.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 16, 2006 -> 11:12 AM) with mack on the bench i got no problems with this...i hope ross does well, im not sure where he fits in KC, with shealy at 1st and sweeney, maybe OF maybe just becnh guy....but sisco is still really young, and hes the typical dare i say cooper project...if he can reduce those walks That's a good point. Hopefully, Mackowiak can get back to more of a true utility role, something he prospered with in the past, but with the CF problems last year, this trade could really benefit Mackowiak if he find some more playing time somewhere other than CF.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 16, 2006 -> 11:09 AM) I love Ross as much as anyone but the problem is Ozzie just doesn't play him and probably never would. Our bullpen must have the best pure stuff in all of baseball with Sisco added to it. I like this trade a lot, though I'm going to miss Ross and I hope to god he gets his shot in KC, he deserves it. I liked Cicso the few times I saw him - a lot of potential, but I think the White Sox will miss Gload. He deserved more playing time, and I was advocating that he play at least 1x per week for Thome, who we saw struggle some in the 2nd half with minor (hand/back) injuries. He also was a nice fill-in player for both Dye and Konerko so he will be missed. The Sox are obviously loading up with younger, power arms, and Cisco is a lefty (I believe) which does fill a need, so I understand why they made the trade - it's another potential trade.

Per the Chicago Tribune: Sox rearranging dominos Non-tender to Sierra would free roster spot A small move Tuesday could lead to bigger things for the White Sox. The Sox were expected to tender contracts to their remaining unsigned players on the 40-man roster, including third baseman Joe Crede and infielder Alex Cintron. The lone exception is minor-league pitcher Eduardo Sierra, who would come off the roster and become a free agent. The Sierra move would create space on the Sox's 40-man roster. The Sox and the other 29 major-league teams are expected to scour the list of non-tendered players once those names become available after Tuesday's 11 p.m. deadline. Although the pool of non-tendered players has produced prolific hitters such as slugger David Ortiz, whom Boston signed after Minnesota let him go in December 2002, it's uncertain whether teams will be willing to allow their players to head to free agency instead of tendering them contracts and retaining their rights. The Los Angeles Angels, for instance, were expected to tender a contract to reliever Brendan Donnelly despite possessing a deep bullpen fortified by the signings of free agents Justin Speier and Darren Oliver. By keeping Donnelly, who earned $950,000 last season, the Angels have the option of trading him instead of non-tendering him and receiving no compensation. Non-tendering Sierra would create space on the 40-man roster in the event the Sox make a multiplayer trade. They weren't required to clear a spot in the Dec. 6 trade with Philadelphia involving 17-game winner Freddy Garcia. That's because left-hand pitcher Gio Gonzalez, who returned to the Sox with pitcher Gavin Floyd, isn't required to be placed on the 40-man roster until he completes his fifth professional season in 2008. Houston, meanwhile, probably has fallen off the Sox's trade radar after the Astros acquired pitcher Jason Jennings from Colorado in exchange for pitchers Taylor Buchholz and Jason Hirsh and speedy center fielder Willy Taveras. Jennings is scheduled to become a free agent in 2008, but the deal is essentially the same deal the Astros believed they were close to completing last Thursday for Sox pitcher Jon Garland. Garland has won 36 games the last two seasons and is signed through 2008. Texas also no longer appears to be a likely match with the Sox because the Rangers addressed their center field and leadoff issues by signing Kenny Lofton. The Rangers also re-signed starting pitcher Vicente Padilla and are interested in free agents Barry Zito and Mark Mulder, according to published reports. Sierra, 24, was 2-1 with a 5.65 ERA in 26 appearances with Double-A Birmingham. He struck out 40 but walked 30 in 43 innings for the Barons. The Sox could sign Sierra to a minor-league contract if he elects not to sign with another team.

Unless Kenny Williams can find a free agent willing to sign at his terms, which is unexpected in this market, I expect the White Sox to have that last spot filled either by trade or inhouse candidates.

You'd have to be a big college fan to enjoy this....White Sox draft who ?????

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 09:28 AM) http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines This article completely ignores that the Sox will likely have a top 10 payroll again this year, and acts like they will just let everyone walk and not sign any veterans ever again.... This article really ticks me off. I just expect this in the local media all year, Cubs spent a ton of money in the offseason, so that means they dramatically improved and made the right moves, Sox didn't (although, as stated above, they'll still have a strong payroll) so they will suck this year. (Mods, if I missed this link somewhere else, please merge) What are you talking about ? Do you disagree with the notion that the White Sox are going to rebuild their starting rotation with younger power arms with high upside ? Do you agree that the White Sox are not going to overpay for average major league pitchers ? If so, you are disagreeing with Kenny Williams. Personally, I would like Burhle signed to a 3 year deal, but I can't blame Buerhle for wanting to be paid at market value given that pitchers like Gil Meche are making $11 million a season. If he pitches good this upcoming season for the White Sox, what is his worth ? I understand both sides on this issue. Look at the OF - the White Sox have several young players (Sweeney, Owens, Anderson who needs to improve bigtime) ready to play in the major leagues - do you think the White Sox are not to eventually give them the LF/CF ? How about 3B ? Do you not think that Josh Fields will eventually be the 3B for the White Sox ? The White Sox are going to spend money, but they aren't going to overpay for players and they want to be able to plug in their top prospects into their team - that is both smart, and cost effective. So, I'm just not seeing your complaint that this article is unfair. QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 10:49 AM) probably that is what stuck in my craw out of it the most, kind of a silly spin IMO, that and failing to mention where they are at, and likely will be at in the grand scheme of payroll I think the point of that comment was that the White Sox want to have their options open and not get bogged down by long-term contracts with older players. The Tribune could have explained that better, but the overall point of the article was the White Sox want to have a team with a good future built around younger players who they can have some control over financially - not that they aren't going to spend money, but they want to spend money on the right players. QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 10:49 AM) probably that is what stuck in my craw out of it the most, kind of a silly spin IMO, that and failing to mention where they are at, and likely will be at in the grand scheme of payroll I think the point of that comment was that the White Sox want to have their options open and not get bogged down by long-term contracts with older players. The Tribune could have explained that better, but the overall point of the article was the White Sox want to have a team with a good future built around younger players who they can have some control over financially - not that they aren't going to spend money, but they want to spend money on the right players. QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 11:21 AM) Regardless of whether we sign him or someone else does, Jermaine Dye is going to get PAID next year. I would be surprised if the White Sox signed Dye before he becomes a free agent. Let's face it, last year was a career year. Not that the White Sox aren't hoping for another big season from him, but I don't expect the same numbers as last year so I think the White Sox would rather pay him off this upcoming season's numbers, and gamble that the market will be more reasonable next offseason. Either way, it's going to be a big contract, and I think the White Sox, similar to what happened with Konerko, will let him test the waters, and then make a final decison on the contract.

So, does the $90 million payroll include money coming from the Diamondbacks(Yankees) for Vasquez, and Phillies for Thome ? In addition, with MacDougle signing, what does the payroll increase to ?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 02:04 PM) I know payroll isn't going up 50%. But in order to keep status quo with this roster, that is the type of payroll increase we would need to keep this roster intact for the next couple of years. In other words, these type of moves shouldn't shock anyone, and they should be expected. I don't think the trade of Garcia was a bad move - maybe the players involved were not what I was expecting, but the idea itself I understand. I don't believe we should be trading Garland though 2 years prior to free agency if we're expecting to win right now.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 12:51 PM) When attendence goes up another 50%, we will be able to support the $150 million payroll it would have taken to sign up all 5 of these guys long term, and then bringing back Joe Crede, Jermaine Dye, a premeir leadoff hitter, another bullpen arm... etc etc. No where is it stated that payroll is going down, or even not up. You think payroll is going to go up another 50% ? I don't even think that's possible.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:04 PM) Explain why we would get a lot for a one year rental. Whatever team trades for Mark will get him for 30 starts, and then he is off to FA. Unless they believe they can sign him. But again they will have to pay top dollar. I will simply tell you that I'm sure Kenny Williams believes he made a good deal for Freddy Garcia, getting 2 prospects he had rated high. I'm hoping they resign Buerhle, but think there's not much of a chance of that happening.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:56 PM) But you have to realize that salaries across the board on our team escalated this year. Crede, Uribe, Iguchi, Garland, Mark, Dye, AJ, etc.....most of the contracts were slightly backloaded, so we probably picked up about 10 million that way. I understand that, but I'd be interested in knowing how much our overall payroll increased from arbritration, contract increases, etc, and whether that would account for the room in increasing the payroll. I was hoping with the 2006 revenue they would be able to do a bit more than just account for the natural increases, and then complain about the free agency market being too expensive. Seeing this in the DailyHerald does concern me: Money talks: The White Sox’ payroll was nearly $100 million last season, and they figure to spend the same amount in 2007, even with Freddy Garcia’s $10 million salary off the books.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:54 PM) Thats not what was said. They did discuss extensions, however the years and amounts made the sox feel uncomfortable, so they traded him. Of course Garland was rumored. He is the most attractive. People are not willing to give up their sure fire number one guys in the minors for a one year rental. 1.) Jon Garland - young, signed for multiple years at a good rate, sinkerballer 2.) Vazquez - talented, has a year and an arbitration year left. 3.) the rest **************************** ''It was our intention to talk about extensions with every one of [the current starting pitchers] because they're all young, they're all durable and I don't think -- at one point in time -- outside of the business question,'' Williams said. ''What's going on now in the market, it's not realistic for us to go that route. We've got to make an adjustment.'' ''What we would be talking about, honestly, are numbers and years I'm not comfortable with,'' Williams said of negotiating with his pitchers. ************************** It doesn't sound like extensions were ever discussed based upon the above quotes - they just didn't like the way the market was headed, and decided to retool the rotation. Of course, I understand teams are going to target Garland first because of his contract status, but, from the White Sox perspective, they can still get a lot for Buerhle, should they choose to move him.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) If Buerhle wants to sign a deal similiar to Garland or the Count he will stay. If he want a 5 year somewhere between Zito and Meche then he will be gone. It doesn't sound like the White Sox are even interested in offering extensions though from what Williams says. I think they have already made their mind up that they need to rebuild the starting pitching. That's why I was surprised to hear Garland could be traded today with 2 seasons to go at a very reasonable salary- if you're going to move Buerhle, at least you can argue that he'll cost too much, but they can still have a pretty good top 4 for next season with Contreras, Garland, Vasquez, McCarthy, and then let 2 of their top prospects (Floyd and the prospect acquired for Buerhle) fight it out for the #5 spot. Personally, I would keep Buerhle for next season, try to win it next season, and if doesn't work out, then that's that. QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:47 PM) How much of a raise will Dye get from his 6 million dollar deal next year. How much of a raise would of Garcia got. How much of a raise would Buerhle get. Add in some raises in arbitration battles. Add in eventually Joe Crede. How much f***ing money do you think we have to wrap up in a few players. It doesn't appear that you read the newspaper very often, but Kenny Williams has said they won't be offering any extensions to their starting pitching. Did you miss that or are you thinking they are going to sign them still ? That would seem to eliminate Garcia and Buerhle from your list. If Crede continues to play well next season, do you expect the White Sox to sign him, given his agent ? So, we're now down to Dye. I hope they resign him, but this is hardly guaranteed. QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) The payroll is naturally rising as a result of escalating salaries, arbitration eligible players, etc. Additionally, let's see how the rest of this offseason plays out before we start discussing where our payroll is at. Fair Enough.

Whatever happened to raising the payroll after last season ? Didn't we finish the season at about $100 million ? With the attendance, TV Ratings, and new collective bargaining agreement that has seemed to give other teams $$$$ to burn, why can't we raise our payroll ?

I'd say his comments about Buerhle don't bode well for his future here. Is Buerhle next to go ?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 06:42 PM) Governor Bill Richardson: I'm Running. - Fox news. Update: The Richardson camp says that Fox made this up. I like Richardson, but I hope that FOX is making this up because he'd be wasting his time.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 09:23 AM) If he thought he could sign Buehrle for that kind of money, I'm sure he wouldn't say "no extensions". Think about it. These agents are smelling blood right now. I think Kenny Williams is having a change in philosphy due to the free agent market. If he was able to sign Buerhle to a $13 million dollar contract, Garland, one year later, would be worth at least as much, and maybe $15 million - that's $28 million for 2 pitchers as opposed to having 3 pitchers signed for that amount previously. With the escalating costs for starting pitching, Williams is opting to go with younger pitchers who are under the team's control for up to 6 seasons. Finally, if Buerhle were to become a free agent, the White Sox probably wouldn't get into a bidding war for a pitcher given their restrictions on years as opposed to other teams who give out 5 year deals for more money than the Sox would offer - so, yes, the agents would smell blood if Buerhle was a free agent, but by that point, the Sox would move on.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:31 AM) On the open market, Buehrle will come in at just under Zito numbers. 3 years and $36M won't even come close. That's the market today ... which is why KW did what he did and why he may trade Mark. On the open market, provided Buerhle has a good year, you are correct. However, given that the White Sox prefer to sign their players before then, and their pitchers, to 3 year deals of late, I don't think $12 million a year, or maybe something starting at $12 milliion would be totally ridiculous - espeically if Buerhle wanted to stay here. I said 3 years, 36 million, maybe 3 years 40 million gets done. Probably won't matter though as Williams is saying no more extensions.

I'm disgusted with what I'm hearing from the White Sox - yes, they are getting back two players from the Phillies who supposedly have high upside, and the Sox believe that they can be top of the line starters, but they don't seem to be interested at all in paying their pitchers, which Williams has been quoted as saying over and over is the reason they won the WS in '05. I want to win again next season, and if they trade Buerhle, which looks like a real possibility, they won't win with Gavin Floyd/Brandon McCarthy in the rotation in a league where you may have to win 95 games. With all the revenue pouring in, they can't get Burehle locked up on a 3 year, 36 million dollar deal that would put him just below a Chris Carpetner in terms of $/year ???? I'll say this for the Cubs - I'm not sure they're spending the money they have smartly, but at least they realize that you to spend money to get free agents/improve the club/keep it together (A.Ramirez). It seems though that we have decided to take a step back in order to get more young pitching - not a bad strategy if you could guarantee the young pitching would develop, but, as we know, can't do that.

"I think Gavin's going to be a little bit of a late bloomer," Phillies assistant GM Mike Arbuckle said.

"Gavin gives us one of the best arms in baseball," said White Sox general manager Ken Williams. "We expect him to compete with Brandon McCarthy for the fifth spot in the starting rotation."

My thoughts: - I'm rather shocked that the White Sox didn't get Aaron Rowand back in this deal, not because I necessarily wanted him back (I don't think it would hurt given our CF issues), but because he is expendable in Philly, and I believe due to make about $3 or $4 million next season...I'm guessing, that if his name did come up, the White Sox didn't want the $$$. - We do save about $10 million in salaries for this upcoming season. Do we use it on a free agent (unlikely, i believe), or use it to lock up Dye/Buerhle long-term ? - Gavin Floyd ? he got kicked around in 11 starts for the Phillies, and supposedly is wild. Couldn't Kenny have done better for Garcia ? Does he even make the roster or is going back to the minors ? - I suppose with McCarthy now in the rotation, we will be fine in the rotation, and not any worse than last season, but I don't like trading away a proven veteran with playoff/late season experience like Garcia for prospects. I guess in summary, I am surprised Kenny didn't get more out of this deal.