ScottyDo

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:36 PM) Ricketts is also willing to eat Soriano contract. To answer your question would try to trade Thornton and AJ I thought you were mad that KW wasn't signing top-notch relievers?

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:33 PM) KW has already said several times he isn't going to trade everyone, which IMO is bulls***. Either go for it or trade away anyone that has value. I like the Santos trade. I think Molina will be great for the Sox. Seriously, though, are you just ignoring no-trade rights?

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 08:01 AM) My god.. this might be one of the most boring off-seasons I can remember since posting here. I mean just garbage. It'll heat up if Cespedes happens

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) If we aren't going to bring people in to compete for this year than trade away some huge pieces like Floyd, Konerko, Alexei etc... I hate half ass jobs. There's no reason to keep AJ or Konerko on this team, if we aren't going to go for it. First off, I don't see anything half-assed about their approach this season. The only "acquisition" they've made was to retain the services of a young, talented lefty starter at (likely) below-market costs with a back-loaded contract. The rest of the moves were prospect grabs. Second, did Paul Konerko announce he would waive his 5/10 NT rights or something? How about AJ for that matter? Why does everyone keep talking about trading them? We can't, unless they okay it, and even if they do I guarantee they won't accept a trade with Houston or something. That severely limits the pool of trade partners, and we probably wouldn't get much for them. Much less than they're worth here, where fans are attached to those players. It's absolutely ridiculous to desire a bunch of bullpen/bench signings that will take us from a last place team (totally arguable...the Twins and Royals still suck until otherwise proven) to a third place team. Who cares what place we're in if we don't make the playoffs? Plus, it sounds like you want to sign good players who will demand multi-year deals. Multi-year reliever deals are risky, and we should be risk-averse right now. There's no reason to make it rain for 4 Scott Linebrinks and a Mark Teahen.

QUOTE (gosox41 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:58 AM) If KW's history holds true he'll give in to the pressure from the fans and rush yet another player up only to make sure he doesn't reach his potential as a major leaguer. Bob Alexei hasn't reached his potential? Sale has performed poorly? Viciedo was rushed? I think you're talking about Beckham, and I can't find any other examples of rushed prospects who have failed.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 10:23 PM) Just that Ozzie seems to play favorites and never got along very well with the likes of Ordonez, Orlando Cabrera (from neighboring/rival country), Carlos Lee, Alex Rodriguez (yeah, I know he's Dominican-NYC)...but all the time Ozzie was manager, we were never really able to lure a player to the Sox because of that one factor, specifically, a Venezuelan. Except for F. Garcia and I guess Omar Vizquel ten years too late. The Sox Venezuelan baseball academy hasn't produced much, if anything, at all. I would have expected more in 8 years..although I guess we did "almost" get Cabrera...we didn't go hard after Victor Martinez, either. Wonder if Ozzie told KW he didn't want him? Supposedly we offered him a decent contract, or maybe it was just a smokescreen from the agent because that deal came together in just a couple of days, seemingly out of nowhere. No way of knowing what really happened behind the scenes. On the other hand, El Duque, Contreras and Alexei have all had success under Ozzie...but Guillen never really warmed to Viciedo either. I don't think it's as important for Venezuelan players as it would be for Cuban players, since most Venezuelan players have had a few years to acclimate to the United States by playing in the minors. These Cubans are expected to be in the majors within a year or two, so a smooth transition may seem like a greater benefit in their decision-making.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 09:42 PM) Or why we've added four Venezuelan players to our organization when basically the last 2-3 seasons it was only Infante, Clevland Santeliz, Omar Vizquel and Freddy Garcia. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here...but I think it's fairly reasonable to say that Cuban players who have never set foot in the United States might feel most comfortable with a manager fluent in Spanish, and an iconic Latino as well.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 09:28 PM) Well, I haven't completely given up on the idea we might be able to contend in the s***ty Central if all goes exceedingly well (though loss of Mark and CQ make me think we'll be way worse than last year) so I'd be against dealing Floyd at this time. I'm not all that high on Zach and KW is the guy who brought in Teahen in the first place so getting rid of him, while nice, is not a feather in KW cap. If you don't give Viciedo regular AB's now, when do you plan on him ever developing? Just keep CQ in the outfield indefinitely because he's more familiar, regardless of contract concerns, defensive liabilities and injury history? Also, you really should care about how much he gets paid, because each baseball team has something akin to a self-imposed salary cap. Would you say you didn't care about a basketball player's salary if they were an okay player getting a max contract? For every dollar your team spends on one player, it's a dollar your team is not spending on another one who is potentially better. Unless we're talking about the Yankees. And even they appear to have a salary limit based on the luxury tax.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 09:24 PM) Anybody want to answer these questions about Cespedes for me? a.) what position does he play? b.) rate his defense. c.) describe his hitting prowess and who he reminds you of at the plate. d.) Is he a can't miss prospect? e.) Do you think Sox will get him? I have a good feeling we're going to get this guy. I just can't see KW and Jerry not adding somebody to the roster who will draw some positive buzz. Or have they forgotten there are 2 teams in town and they have to remain better than those assholes on the northside? Now that Christmas is over Sox management should have a pretty good idea about how much attendance is set to fall. Season ticket Christmas gifts have been unwrapped. a) He started in CF for Cuba in the WBC in 2009 b) I have no idea, I'm not sure how we'd get a good sample size, but he does appear to have a plus arm, good range and athleticism based on video footage. Of course, none of that matters if you get bad jumps or take bad angles, so I can't say. c) Looks like he has power to all fields from the right side, but no clue about his eye. He had some decent clutch hits for Cuba in the WBC. I don't know who his comp would be. I've never seen a guy with his build before. He literally looks like a running back with the athleticism of an NBA player but he's playing the wrong sport. I guess he mostly reminds me of Soriano in his prime? That's a terrible comp, ignore that. No idea about his eye, by the way. d) To me, he looks about as can't-miss as a player can be, in that he has obvious upside in every regard. Of course, there's no such thing as a "can't miss" prospect, especially a hitter. Hitters of all scouting grades fail to make the adjustment to major league pitching. e) If it's the Sox vs. the field, I'd say no. But, I think the Sox have the best chance of everyone based on cleared salary and the established Cuban presence on the team. That may change without Ozzie. (There's some fuel for you, Greg!)

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 05:27 PM) Cause they are on the team and are on the team FOR A LONG TIME TO COME. Mite as well play them. In a pennant race? That's just irresponsible. I don't think most of us really believed in a comeback, but we weren't far off in early August.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) The only thing I don't like about aggresively pursuing Cespedes is that he is another right handed hitter. If Dunn flops again, this team still lacks a left handed presence in the lineup. I don't know how mangagement has overlooked this glaring shortcoming. We don't have a potent left handed bat anywhere in the organization. Oh well, at this point we may not have a potent right handed bat, save Konerko. He is a 5 tool player, but is he really good enough defensively to play CF? Can he steal bases? If he can do those two things, he might be worth the money, even if he doesn't fulfill the promise of a huge bat in the middle of the order. It's hard to imagine him not being at least a productive offensive player, with the way he has been dominating Cuban Leagues. I mean the guy averaged over an RBI per game last year!!! Looks like he can steal bases (though none of us watch the Cuban league very often, I don't think), and he has a great arm, though without seeing him play live CF it's tough to tell. I guess someone would have to go back to the WBC games to check it out? But you don't pass up on a great right-handed talent because they're not left-handed unless you're so overloaded with talent that you can't find a spot for him in the lineup. Clearly, that is not the White Sox' problem right now. Passing on Cespedes doesn't get us another lefty bat any way you look at it, it just ensures less overall talent.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 05:22 PM) Are u talking about him not benching Rios and Dunn when Kenny said it was OK to do so? Big deal. Thanks, Ken. We have these huge albatrosses sitting in the dugout, but thanks for giving me the OK to bench their butts. I think I'll pass and play them. Why do you think the bolded is an appropriate response unless you're being spiteful?

I guess for those still wondering if we have a plan, it's pretty clear that our priorities are: 1) Obtain young starting pitching 2) Cut payroll All the moves thus far have accomplished at least one of those two goals. Looks like KW figures there isn't that much value in our trading chips and is willing to do pretty much anything to pursue either one of those priorities. We may be annoyed at the quality of prospects returning but I'm fairly satisfied that there is a goal now. These are not "limbo" moves. Signing Cespedes is still an option just because he's an elite talent. There are exceptions to the blind pursuit of every plan, as there should be.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 12:07 AM) At the risk of overreacting from one video or being called a jerk ... did anybody else watch that one video of Molina and it appear that he has no fastball? The only video I saw of Molina was from an angle at which I can't judge a fastball. Has anyone seen the more traditional (from the TV-watching fan's perspective) outfield angle?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors White Sox announce five-year, $65MM Danks extension. Danks will earn $8MM in 2012 and $14.25MM annually from 2013-16. First breakdown of salary I have seen. So, something akin to salary relief next year...does this tell us anything about when KW is targeting a resurgence? I'm not sure it does, but you guys are better at thinking than me.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 02:36 AM) Right now so much of this scenario depends on a player with 22 innings above A-ball level. EVERY team has some prospect who is the 2nd coming...in fact, most organizations have several of those guys. When in reality, most don't make it...but we have ONE guy and low and behold, he's gonna make it. One more than we had 3 months ago

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 11:57 PM) 1 month until Soxfest About 6 weeks until Pitchers/Catches report That seems impossible. Time needs to slow the eff down!

QUOTE (Crash73 @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 10:46 PM) Scotty, i agree with you except, that if he is so self absorbed, i think he would want to win, in spite of KW. Winning would have proved his genius. That's the mature way of approaching the job. I just think Ozzie gets so caught up in personal and family honor that he overlooks the level-headed sort of "beat 'em by proving yourself" response.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 09:15 PM) Everything I have read coming out of NY is that the Yankees really wanted Danks but were betting on the price coming down. Kenny must have had an idea he could get him signed and was trying to get a value for him that would outweigh having him here for 5 years at $13/annually. He demanded two of their top three prospects and never wavered. I, for one, am totally fine with that approach. You want to let them know that you're interested in dealing, but there is a price below which you will not step. The signing indicated to all parties that the Sox are not desperate, and that if you want our talent, you will have to pay a fair price. We sold tragically low on Swisher in part because he had a bad season, but also because everyone in the world knew that the relationship was a complete disaster. That whole scenario was rightly panned by Sox fans, but this is, IMO, the way things ought to be done. Don't broadcast desperation at all, and be willing to follow through if the market dictates you withdraw.

QUOTE (bobryansson @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 08:52 PM) Ozzie has been indisputedy proven a liar. For a long time, I was torn and supported Ozzie. Then his own, accidentally and prematurely released, announcement of his acceptance of the Miami job sealed it. After that, any doubts in my mind about his priorities being, first, money, and, second, using the Sox to make KW look bad were cast aside. Once those doubts were gone, using the retrospectoscope to review the season made Ozzie's line-up decisions easy to comprehend. Honestly, I don't know if the man has enough of a filter to be a true liar. So fickle that he made himself look like a liar on several occasions? Absolutely. As far as prematurely letting his Miami thing slip, I think that just shows how bad a liar he is. Either way, I have no doubt that he's so self-absorbed that he would make bad decisions out of blind animosity.

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 04:06 PM) Now if only the mascot didn't look like a furry Muppet booger. That's right. A giant dancing white tube sock or bust!

I would have the same exact reaction except she didn't actually shed any tears.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 26, 2011 -> 04:52 PM) My part of this conversation started when you started posting in this thread like it was the geology thread. Whether you want to continue on this crusade about the Santos trade being shortsighted given the extension of Danks is your business, but there is absolutely enough uncertainty and unpredictability in the game of baseball to render your "I cannot be more clear" condescending crap total bulls***. You and I and everyone else can't determine with anywhere near enough certainty what is going to happen next year or any year on the baseball field to be taking that tone with anyone. While we can say it is most likely that Stewart and the White Sox, for that matter, should they decide to trade some of their veteran players for younger ones, will struggle in 2012, perhaps for the benefit of future seasons, there is no way in hell you can go around criticizing other posters for even considering the possibility of succeeding in 2012 should we trade Gavin Floyd, especially before you even see the returns of such a trade. To your point, I remember some very damning quotes about ever depending on Humber for any stretch of time. The thought was that if we started him more than five times in a season, our season would be over. While that turned out to be true, it certainly wasn't because of Humber. Stewart could do the same thing. He wasn't a first-rounder like Humber, but he also didn't have as long a track record of failure as Humber did.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 26, 2011 -> 02:02 PM) Ugh. This is all part of the sports cliche. Blame the manager. Too easy to blame the players or uh, the guy who acquired the players. You think Ozzie did that intentionally? wow. Yeah Ozzie is the devil. And this has nothing to do with my opinion of the Dunn family situation. If his child is sick, prayers go to them. Well, there is a mountain of evidence that Ozzie is petty and more concerned with his own squabbles than anything else. That much, to me, is not debatable. Given that, I couldn't think of a better explanation of why he was placing Dunn in the situations he did late in the season. Do you really think Ozzie is above playing someone in a suboptimal position to prove a point? I think there are no lengths to which Ozzie WOULDN'T go to prove a point if he felt disrespected. He's made it clear that his "honor" is more important than anything else. That said, I'm not as much of an Ozzie hater as many, and I wish him well in Miami. It might be a situation more suited to his talents (he really wanted to manage an NL team anyway).

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 25, 2011 -> 05:10 AM) I think Ozzie did that intentionally. I think he was putting Dunn in the worst spots possible to screw with him and to set him up for failure because he did not like Dunn nor what he represented to the White Sox and it was his way of getting back at Williams for giving him a team he did not want. Yes, I think Ozzie is that petty and shallow. I actually thought that during the season too. He does seem that petty to me, just based on evidence at hand.