Jack Parkman

With regard to Fields, who was the last elite NFL QB that wasn't at least above average at their first opportunity to play?

EDIT: Nope. There were a lot of 10 and 11 win teams that year and the Bears lost out to Minny on tiebreaks.

Let's see how Mac Jones turns out. But yes, BB has been mediocre without Brady.

Belichick is doing a great job this year. His defenses are still top notch even since Brady left.

Also, going back to the Cutler trade, think about how many 1st rounders the Bears have traded over the last decade. 2009, 2010, 2019, 2020, 2022. That's a lot of talent they gave up for basically nothing.

The NFC had 2 teams that won more than 9 games that year. It was being the best of mediocre teams. Lovie and Angelo should have been fired after the 2009 season.

Lovie was an okay/average coach by league standards. Evaluating Lovie(and Cutler btw) against other Bears coaches/QBs makes them seem better than they were. Evaluate players and coaches by how they compare to their peers. Cutler was an average to slightly below average QB and Lovie was an average to slightly below average coach. Lovie was nothing without Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman

Outside of 2005-06 Lovie was a mediocre coach. He got fired because he got numerous hires at OC and all of them sucked. Angelo couldn't draft offense either.

And don't get me wrong, the MLBPA(and its counterparts in other sports) work for its top earners over the middle and lower classes in their ranks. For some reason, it seems to be a cultural thing. They'll argue that raising wages at the top sets the market for everyone else, but we know how that works in everyday life (hint: It doesn't) The stars are getting the largest piece of the pie and and the middle class is getting squeezed for team-controlled labor. At least from my perspective, I don't want the star players to get paid more. I do want the MLB lower and middle class to take most of the gains from the MLB deal. The top players are getting plenty. And for god sakes pay minor leaguers at each level a reasonable salary. Pay vendors a living wage. Minor leaguers should get paid just as much as if they had a decent job out in the regular world. And stop the exploitation of Latin American hopefuls. For the larger picture:

I don't see it that way. The players don't control the league, so they're fighting management in the same way that everyone else is. I take a hard stance for labor vs management, and I really don't give a flying fuck how much money labor makes. It's still labor vs management. Black and white. And at the same vein, I have the same contempt for small business owners that exploit their labor as I do for Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. I don't really give a flying fuck how much management makes. It's about power dynamics. One side has all of the leverage, and the other has to fight for everything it gets. That being said, the other people that make baseball work beyond the MLB players and owners need to get paid a living wage, along with everyone else in this country. All of the things about the smaller people in this thread are completely valid and a bigger issue than the MLBPA vs MLB. Everyone in baseball except the owners should get a bigger piece of the pie. All the more reason to unionize.

Very true. Employers will keep taking until there is no more to take.

^^^^ I purposely boycotted Kellogg's to support their workers on strike. People died recently because their bosses wouldn't let them go home instead of having to work during a tornado outbreak. I try to avoid shopping at Wal-Mart, Meijer and Amazon as much as possible. I shop at Jewel even though it's more expensive because they're a union shop. I put my money where my mouth is.

^^^^^^^

There's a large labor movement going on among working people right now and I view any wins for labor as a positive. It's black and white from my pov. I will support labor no matter who it is. I definitely give a shit about the average working person and I think a win on a level like this could help the larger labor movement in general. I stand in solidarity with anyone fighting for better working conditions. The thing that sucks is that the strongest unions in the country represent pro athletes. We need more private sector unions. (I think everyone should have and want one) I don't understand how people can watch what the MLBPA does for their group and say "Why can't I have that at my job?" Props to the people at Kellogg's and John Deere for their recent wins.

Profits being controlled by the government through high taxes actually creates jobs, because companies would rather invest in their employees and research than pay taxes. Novel concept, but it goes against conventional wisdom. People should be allowed to get rich, but people shouldn't be allowed to get rich to the point where they can corrupt the system. That is what has happened.

It's crazy how much that move was ridiculed and how well it's worked out.

^^^ The MLB players have a union. The rest of the MLB employees don't. Maybe they should unionize?

As someone who rails against billionaires on the regular, I get your point....however that just ignores reality at the moment. How society values entertainers is a completely different argument. Are entertainers grossly overpaid? Absolutely. Our current society values individuals based on how much profit they generate for their employer. (I think that's wrong, but that's another story) To me, it's a simple argument of labor vs management. You know where I stand on that issue. We're more on the same page than you think.

You know maybe, just maybe......the owners should pay players what they're worth. I know how the Sox operate and I disagree with it.

No, not really. The good news is that unlike two years ago, we have the tech and know how to vaccinate people who want it ASAP. People have to pretty much accept that we're going to need updated mRNA vaccines probably biannually until this thing peters out, which we don't know how that will happen. Until then, we're going to be doing the dance of shutdowns and re-openings.

Then they better only allow vaccinated fans in the arenas and stadiums. When the health system becomes overwhelmed again, we'll be right back to March-April 2020. We're about 3-6 weeks away from that. I hate to be alarmist, but I don't think many really grasp what's about to happen. Just like 2 years ago. It's going to be a crap winter until the omicron-specific booster comes out. Maybe if the new booster is out by February they'll be able to start on time, if they can come up with a new CBA. Once the owners see what happens this winter, they probably won't even discuss economics until the new booster is available.

The rapid spread of the new virus will make it impossible. We're already seeing what's going on in the NBA and NHL. It's becoming nearly impossible to field a team. Sports are about to be shut down again. Just a matter of time.