Damen

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 02:39 PM) No way to trading Freddy and keeping Javy. That'd be a huge mistake. Even if Freddy has lost some of his stuff this year, he still knows how to pitch. Vazquez is a mental midget who's not getting it done. How's that a huge mistake? Vazquez, as we all have seen, has the stuff to be a strong #2 or 3 pitcher, but falls apart mentally. That can be fixed. Exhibit A) Jose Contreras Exhibit B.) Jon Garland Freddy Garcia is on the downside of his career, due to make 10 million dollars when he's lost his fastball and must rely exclusively on breaking/offspeed pitches. He has no upside, is expensive, and is easily replaceable.

QUOTE(FlaCWS @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 06:55 AM) Top story is Mets talking to Sox about Vazquez or Garcia (please let it be Javy) and second story is about the Yanks' letting Contreras get away: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/index.html Incidentally, this is not a second guess, but I was concerned during the offseason about the relievers we let go (Marte, Vizcaino) and now I'm not surprised that we're looking to trade a starter because we need relievers. Personally I'd hate to see Garcia go. And although I'd say Javy has been a mild disappointment, there is no way in HELL I'd trade him for Tom Gordon (Philly is another possible trade partner mentioned in the article). Why? Garcia is garbage this year. He's lost his velocity, and relies almost exclusively on breaking/offspeed pitches to survive. You can't beat good offensive teams with his junkballing ways. If we can trade him for a top notch reliever like Gordon we improve our starting rotation by inserting McCarthy back where he should be, and we turn our relief corps, a problem in the beginning of the year, into one of the best in the majors. I'd like to see the Phillies throw in a prospect as well, because a starter is more valuable than a reliever, but on the major league roster, we strenghten both positions by making this deal.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 08:10 AM) Love Stewart and the Daily Show, colbert too. I've read several of "The Dugout" series and haven't even cracked a smile. I drive an old Porsche and eat my fish cooked. I'm with you. I have no idea why people think it's funny. I don't even think it's mildly amusing.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 11:50 PM) And let's be honest here, if not for Pods' defense, there would really be nothing to b**** about. His numbers are up across the board from a year ago. Very true. His two slumps this year would have drawn much less attention if he were at least playing his position as competently as last year. By the way, does anyone disagree with this statement...

QUOTE(Dan Pasqua @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 04:18 PM) 286 BA, 397 OBP, in the playoffs. Not great but very serviceable. Not to mention one of the biggest home runs in white sox history. Pods led us to our 1st world series title in 88 years as our lead off man and I recognize the fact hes not the best lead off man in the world, but for right now he is playing well enough to deserve some respect from the fans. He is an integral aspect of team chemistry and we have a few glaring needs to improve on. If we are gonna rip Pods then lets rip Mark Buehrle, Fraddy Garcia and Jon Garland. Should we get rid of them? I think not I'd love to get rid of Freddy Garcia.

QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 02:45 PM) See that's where I differ from most "so-called" Sox fans on this board. I agree Hafner is an outstanding hitter, Hafner's numbers may even be a shade above Paulie's (even though he's the only player on his team with over 60 rbi's, but whatever) Does that mean I should be obligated to want to have Hafner on the White Sox and should root for him more than Konerko?? Not a chance. Hafner has never hit over 40 HR in his career, Paulie will do it for his 4th consecutive year this season. Not to mention Pronk has never even taken a whiff of playoff baseball, let alone hit a slam in the WS. Should I have rooted for the Astros in the series last year too just because they had better aces on their staff?? Grass is always greener somewhere else around these parts.... Put aside the fact that Konerko plays in one of the most homer friendly parks in baseball, you are completely missing the point. I love Konerko, I love him being the leader of this team. That doesn't mean I can't recognize that Hafner is a better hitter. And that doesn't mean I root for Hafner. It simply means I recognize the obvious. That he's a better hitter. That doesn't take anything away from Konerko, it only shows that Hafner is a really great hitter. That's it. Using your ridiculous Astros reference, Roger Clemons is better than Jose Contreras. It's okay for you to say this without having to 'root' for Clemons to beat Contreras. Honestly, how old are you that you can't understand this?

QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 01:38 PM) Never in this thread do I claim Pods to be a gold glove winner.... nor did I rally people to "HATE" Pronk or anyone else thats not on this team. Sure Hafner is a great ballplayer, does that mean he should get more love than Konerko on a WHITE SOX board??? Why shoudl I root and love players from other teams??? I still don't get this. Travis Hafner is a better hitter than Paul Konerko, because the numbers prove it. That doesn't mean I'm rooting for Hafner to do well, unless he's playing the Twins or Tigers, it just means I can recognize reality. You can root for you own guys to do well and still understand that other players in the game are better. It's called not being 7.

QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 12:31 PM) Exactly nobody is attacking him here...why would they??? He is more beloved and respected than players on our own team. Why shouldn't he be more respected than some players on this team? He's one of the best hitters in the game. You're not allowed to respect that because he doesn't do it in a Sox jersey?

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 11:21 AM) Look at SABR metrics all you want, but they don't provide intangibles at all. Scott HAS heart, and the team loves that. :puke Okay Hawk. Lots of ballplayers have heart. In fact, I'd say the vast majority have heart. Those that don't have "heart" have enough natural ability and talent to make up for that, or else they wouldn't be in the majors. Pods by all accounts is a nice guy. When he's hot, he's great at working pitchers into deep counts. He steals bases, but he gets caught quite a bit too, unnecessarily so considering the power coming up behind him. He can't read the ball and he has a terrible arm. In short, he's below average and an easy position to improve upon. I'm not saying we should trade him this season, but I was disappointed Kenny couldn't move him over the offseason when his value was highest, and I'd be more disappointed if he was our starting LFer next year.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:47 PM) Cleveland is in 4th place. Does that count for anything? Just wondering. I doubt all the MVP voters sit around and go damn, Hafner is great in VORP. I didn't base my picks on who MVP voters are actually going to pick, I picked who I thought should win these awards. Yeah Hafner has played on a disappointing Indians squad, but as I said previously, that is in no way connected to what he has done on the field. If I were to pick the league MVP, I'd give it to the best hitter in the league. After the first half, the honor belongs to Hafner.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:46 PM) Well, if for the sake of this argument you keep things to strickly HR/RBI production which is what I was talking about right there. Manny has more HRs and RBIs on the road than at home, was nearly equal last year and did have more HR/RBI at Home in '04. But yeah, if you're looking at BA/OPS and such the numbers are higher at home but for whatever reason, so far this year Hafner has been much more productive at home than on the road. But if you want to look at who is the best ballplayer, you cannot ignore the tremendous advantage Manny has hitting in a hitter's friendly ballpark where Hafner plays in a park that strongly limits runs (PF factor of 94 in 2005). If you look at ballpark adjusted stats, Hafner is the best hitter in the league.

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:32 PM) It's close, but Hafner has put up better OPS+ numbers the past two seasons, which is as good as comparison (park adjusted) as I care to use right now. Maybe their VORP numbers show something else, but I know they both have been healthy and mashing with plenty of PA's, so I'd guess they are probably similiar in VORP too. Hafner is running away in VORP this year. He leads baseball with a 55.8 VORP, with Pujols in a distant second at 46.4. Ramirez is in ninth at 38.4.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:33 PM) I was referring to the Angels giving us Figgins. Although it's interesting to note they're just as far back as we are. Oh...gotcha.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 04:14 PM) Can someone please explain to me why a team that is 2 games out of the lead in their division and is sporting one of the best starting staffs in the AL might be looking to sell? Not saying it would or should happen, but supposing we were able to get rid of Pods in favor of Carl Crawford, that would be an improvement for this year. How is improving your team now akin to "selling"? That's like saying the Red Sox were sellers in 2004 because they traded Nomar.

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:22 PM) I think Albert Pujols just puked a little in his mouth. And strained his oblique. Sorry...I meant the AL. I forget the NL is still in the major leagues sometimes.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:01 PM) No offense, but there is no way project donkey gets the mvp when Ortiz's numbers are just as good and the Indians just suck and in the eyes of most are a huge disappointment. I'll give my awards out later for all you that are curious. His numbers are better. He probably wouldn't win because of the Indians struggles, but that is in no way connected to Hafner. He is the best hitter in the game right now, and has been since 2004.

My changes in bold AL Most Valuable Player: Travis Hafner AL Cy Young Award Winner: Francisco Liriano AL Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano AL Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland AL Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome AL Biggest Surprise: Detroit Tigers AL Biggest Disappointment: LAA Angels AL Game of the Year: Yesterday's Red Sox/White Sox game NL Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols NL Cy Young Award Winner: Tom Glavine NL Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla NL Manager of the Year: Joe Girardi NL Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra NL Biggest Surprise: Cincinatti Reds NL Biggest Disappointment: Atlanta Braves NL Game of the Year: St. Lou/ChiSox 1-0 win on 1 hit. White Sox specific categories: Best Hitter: Jermaine Dye Best Pitcher: Bobby Jenks Most Valuable Player: Jim Thome Biggest Surprise: Bobby Jenks Biggest Disappointment: Vazquez/Politte Game of the Year: White Sox/Astros Crede Grand Slam 6-5 in 10th. Favorite Moment: Iguchi Grand Slam to send into extras the next night.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 03:49 PM) strawmen seems to be the word of the fricken month around here....I have a point...I made it...57-31 deserves an A+. In the last 5 years 4 teams have had 57 wins or better by the half. The Braves in 03. The Tigers this year and the Sox last year and this year. So out of 150 chances, 57 wins has happened 4 times. Less than 3%!!! Id say that record deserves an A+, no matter how they got it. A+ would imply there is no room for improvement on the team. I believe we can improve tremendously on our rotation's numbers. I'm not asking for sub 2.00 or even sub 3.00 ERA's, I'm just asking for numbers near the career averages. Right now, we're getting below average years in everyone save Contreras (and he's been spotty since he came off the DL). All I'm saying is that just because some people don't believe this team is perfect, it doesn't mean they don't appreciate how good the first half was, or that they expect impossible numbers out of our players. I expect only that the Sox perform up to their capabilities. And our pitching has not.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 03:31 PM) Pods is 78th in the league with a .352 OBP, and I'm pretty certain most of the people ahead of him either are untouchable, or are way too much to acquire. I don't have the time to look through every single person on the list, but realistically, which of the players that have a higher OBP than him could be acquired? I also find this thread funny that its posted in July, while he's hitting .349/.378/.419 on the month. Good post. Pods isn't good per se, but when he's on, he sees a lot of pitches and is a decent leadoff man. I don't want to see the Sox resign him after this year, but he's certainly not someone that needs to be replaced this year. There are only two areas that may need to be addressed. Starting pitching and bullpen.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) A+++ .648 winning %. I mean there are always things to nitpick about, but jesus christ, that's baseball. If you hit the ball 35% of the time you're considered a dam good hitter. It's a sport of acceptable failures. The only people that have trouble seeing that are the fans. They expect sub 2 era's and .400 BA's, hell some expect even more. The Sox have the second best record in all of baseball and the one team ahead of them they've gone 5-1 against. The Sox are the defending World Champs and every team is gunning for them. They are not winning by luck. There may be some players that have lower grades than I would have liked, but this team gets a big f***in A+ from me!!! I never expected to keep up with the magical pace of last year, but we're right there. I gave them an A+ at the midway point last year and 2 games off that pace isn't going to change my grade now. I think you're misreading the criticism here. I think most everyone here is excited about the first half, and what this team has accomplished. But there's a major difference between expecting the most expensive rotation in baseball not have 4 of 5 pitchers over 4.00 and 3 of 5 at or above 5.00, and expecting sub 2 era's. As for the .400 BA's, has anyone here said that? If you can't make your point without strawmen, then you don't have a point.

QUOTE(Sox1422 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 01:05 PM) They just said on the score that it would either be Buehrle or Jenks replaced by Liriano. Hopefully Buerhle, Jenks is the only pitcher we've got who deserves to be in the all-star game.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 11:00 AM) I just want to add that the Sox have now had back-to-back well-pitched games by their starters. And we also pitched our way out of 8th and 9th inning jams with men on second and third and no outs. None of the 4 runners scored. This is what I'm talking about. When we pitch like we are capable of, we are clearly the best team in baseball. No one can touch us. Just keep it up, guys. Javier, it is your turn to show us you were worth trading Chris Young to get. You should beat down this O's team. Our offense better spot him some serious runs. He's pitching against the O's version of Cliff Politte. Time to pad your stats boys.

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 01:23 PM) I agree. Jon looked fabulous last night, and the start against the Cubs on Friday. I have not been the biggest supporter of Garland, really, ever. Sure, he started off great last year, but finished 10-10 with an ERA close to 4 in the second half. But, if he can pitch like he has these last two (and apparently two before that that I don't remember as clear) then he'll be a hell of a 4th pitcher. If Garland can give us the numbers he posted in the second half of last year over the course of the next 2.5 years, he'll be worth his contract. I mean he was 5-6 with a 3.65 ERA...10 of the 15 games he allowed 3 runs or less, 9 of the 15 he allowed 2 runs or less. Garland's going to occasionally get rocked, only becuase he doesn't have dominant stuff. But overall, he should give you a chance to win the game in 75% of his starts. Not bad for a fourth starter as is.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 03:22 AM) but thats not all true..... a lot of starters pitch differently depending on the game. If their team scores 1 run they wont give up any... if their team scores 10 they will give up 6-8. Im not saying this is the case for Garland but sometimes pitchers are just natural winners and others are just natural losers despite era. A course in the case of Clemens last season.... it was just pathetic team offense. Eh...over the course of a season, you're ERA, WHIP, and BAA tell you the kind of pitcher you are, not you're W/L record. I don't buy the crap about pitchers being natural winners. If you are a natural winner, you won't give up 6 ER just becuase your team spotted you 7.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:20 AM) From pitches 1-15, Bobby has 31.1 IP with a 0.86 ERA and 1.05 WHIP From pitches 16-30, Bobby has 6.1 IP with a 8.53 ERA and 1.42 WHIP So yea, it would seem that way. Although these are pitches, not innings pitched, which makes it a bit different, but still shows the same point. However, doesn't it make sense that if he's throwing more pitches, his ERA will be higher because he will have let more runners on, which is why his pitch count is higher in the first place? Or am I talking gibberish? Where'd you find those numbers? While that's an interesting stat, I don't think it really says all that much. Considering Bobby is mainly a 1 inning pitcher, when he gets up past 20 pitches in an inning, that's usually an indication that he's struggling somewhat. It also means that in pitches 15-30, there's likely to be men on base already, where that is not as likely to be the case on pitches 1-15, which would explain the large disparity in ERA. Really, all this shows is that the longer an inning Bobby has, the more likely his WHIP will go up (although not by all that much.) I'm sure you could say the same about most pitchers in baseball. Yesterday, his struggles in the ninth were less attributed to him and more to the O's. His fastball had the same velocity in the ninth as it did in the eighth, but the O's batters seemed to be waiting to swing at only fastballs and sat on everything else. Once Ozzie realized this, Jenks went almost exclusively to his slider/curveball and struck out the side. If anything, last night was a testament to just how good Bobby Jenks has gotten, not to why he shouldn't go out for the eighth and ninth.