Pants Rowland

Not to get away from the legality of it all, but I would like for something more than the Mitchell Report to come out of the last 10-15 years of inflated ballplayers. I always loved what South Africa did after apartheid. Rather than having long drawn out trials and sustained campaigns of revenge, they set up the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to talk about what went wrong and start the healing for years of wrongdoing. I think baseball would do itself a huge favor by doing something similar. They should basically offer an amnesty to all parties that come forward and openly discuss everything they experienced. This should include players discussing the drugs they did, how they hid it, ways to beat the system, ways to address the cheating, etc. This should also apply to owners and media members who were privy to the matters. If you come forward and are forthright, you will never be prosecuted or punished for prior acts. The media will still decide whether you deserve the HOF or not, but that is something baseball really has little control over anyway. However, if there is evidence against you and you do not come forward, then you risk being investigated with the penalty being a lifetime ban. Going forward, the penalties should be pretty harsh and the testing should be frequent.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 09:39 AM) I dunno, I think Red Sox fans have gone from being Cub fans to being Yankee fans. Sox v. Cubs... We b**** about our team and what it did, didn't do, what the other team across town did, why we hate their fans, why our job sucks, Van Halen breaking up, etc. They lament their teams futility due to curses and karma. It has gotten a lot more anxious and tense since 2003 and 2005, though.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 10:30 AM) I just want to say that this report is going to be better than expected since not only is the Mets guy giving up names but you have the Yanks Strength and Conditioning coach giving out names and saying he supplied Clemens with roids. I just want to see SI run a reprive where they can say Soxtalk.com was one of the first to break the news about Clemens roid use Also, I'm going to move this thread to the PHT thread. I just know a few Sox players will be in it and its such major news that I'm going to pin it over there. Plus it will keep us distracted from the Sox inactvity (heck, maybe we'll get all excited about the inactivity because some of the guys the Sox were after end up being on the list). I heard Fukudome tested positive for Ginseng.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) So lets trade a 3rd baseman who is young cheap and has potential, so we can lose our 3rd baseman the Boras client to FA and have Andy Gonzales as our 3rd baseman next year. Cool. Where do I sign up. Couldn't we then trade Maybin back to Detroit for Inge? Seriously, though, I do not necessarily think the MCab deal would have happened if Detroit wasn't willing to trade additional talent for Dontrelle Willis. the combined package probably netted FL more than they would have if they tried to trade each individually.

QUOTE(Wanne @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) Without starting a new thread...I'm just kind of curious what people would have done different since October of '05 differently? Should we have held on to El Duque? Kept Rowand? Dealt Freddy after '05. I think in hindsight...maybe one of the smarter moves would have been dealing Crede when his value was peeked. I know this is all conjecture... I like your questions. I think El Duque would be great to have around in 2006...as a coach and friend to Contreras. That wasn't going to happen, so trading him was not a bad idea. He is great to have around with the bases loaded and nobody out, but using a roster spot on him did not make sense. I never liked trading Rowand for Thome. Thome is great in every respect, but I think the Sox could have improved their lineup without shooting the moon and given up Rowand and several prospects. I do not think Rowand is the superstar some make him out to be, but I do believe losing him impacted the Sox in the clubhouse and on the field in 2006 and 2007. I also think it put Brian Anderson in a position that he was not ready to handle. Dealing Freddy would have proved genius but few could have seen his decline coming after Game 4. One question you did not ask was whether we should have traded Young for Javy. Whether the D'Backs may have wanted Anderson over Young or not is immaterial to me. I think that Javy was a good pickup for this team no matter his struggles in 2006. His shortcomings would not have mattered if the bullpen wasn't in shambles in 2006 and the defense wasn't ruined with Mack in CF. Further, if the Thome trade did not happen, we may have been able to work something else out with AZ and kept Young and Anderson. Overall, I find KW has two big problems. He can't keep his mouth shut and he falls in love with certain players. He works well under the radar, but when he is after a player he obsesses and everyone knows about it(see Alomar, Everett, Thome, Vazquez, Everett again, Griffey even though it never happened). Then teams tend to get more from him than necessary and we have a barren farm system.

I think the key positive to take out of this trade as a White Sox fan is that we will not face Andrew Miller this year. He is young and will need to figure things out as he establishes himself and will also, like everyone, need to stay healthy. However, while I do not like seeing that lineup with MCab in it for 19 games this year, I definitely prefer to face Willis over Miller when that slot in the rotation comes up.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 02:37 PM) If Rowand hits .360 with an obp of .430 and a slg of almost .600, sure. Magglio had a freakishly good year. There's some contract inflation, of course. But this is more a case of the player's numbers luckily catching up to the contract. I wouldn't bet on too many of these from Maggs or Rowand. Magglio has been a consistently good hitter for most of his career. He hits into too many double plays, but he also hits for a solid average and power.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 04:10 AM) I want Milton Bradley, too. Too bad Ron LeFlor and Wil Cordero retired. We could assemble a great team.

QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 04:18 PM) Enough with Crede going to first base already. He is only a starter in the bigs because of his defense. Otherwise he is looked upon as a bench player. Now I think his bat can come back, but his real strength is his fielding, and he becomes almost worthless at first base. Joe has little value right now with: 1. Injury shortened 2007 2. Free Agent after 2008 3. Boras as an agent Trading him will get little unless he is included in a package. That might work. Otherwise, Joe plays third and you either trade Fields and open the season with a huge health concern at 3B, or stunt Field's growth on the bench, in the minors, or at another position. If a PK trade happens and you keep Crede and Fields, you have to ask who your long-term solution at 3B is. I doubt it is Crede unless your team looks so awesome that you are certain you have a strong WS contender and keep Joe at third to guarantee the ring. I do not see that on the south side right now.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 02:52 PM) Micah Owings in the AL is nothing more than a #5 starter, at best. He would have fit in with the old way of thinking with his blazing 89 mph fastball. Maybe we can make him a platoon partner with Richar? Bite your tongue. He is the next Babe Ruth. 89 MPH and all that offensive prowess would be great to plug into RF once Thome leaves and Dye switches to DH.

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) Over at the WSI board, a poster of there who broke the Quentin deal with a source in the DBacks front office say another deal is being talked about in the early stages... Konerko for M. Owings SP C. Jackson 1B T. Pena RP That type of deal would make this organization far more dynamic that it has been over the past two seasons. All of a sudden you have significantly increased your financial flexibility and injected more youth into the organization while only removing one player. I like PK a lot, but I do not consider him untradeable in the least bit. If Jackson can pick it at 1B, that is an even better option that my last suggestion of moving Crede to first. A quick glance at these guys' numbers and ages have me giddy over such a deal.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 02:02 PM) The Dodgers have offered him a 2 year, $32 million deal. Sounds like a decent deal could be made there. Despite last year's poor BA, I would up that offer with an option for a third year at least. Slightly off topic, but I still think the best value to parlay into some of the talent we fans seek (Crawford, MCab, Bedard, etc.) to really complete a balanced team (financially as well as on the field) lies in Paul Konerko. Crede's value couldn't get lower from a trade standpoint and no one wants to lose Fields. I think moving Joe to 1B to build up his strength and stock while letting Josh develop at third would allow the Sox to trade Paul for either a legitimate starter or ready to near-ready prospects for added flexibility in making deals. That to me is a more attractive team even eith the loss of pop in the line-up. The two concerns I have doing this would be the health of Thome and Crede but I think that some gambles have to be taken with the lack of chips the White Sox have right now.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 09:54 PM) From billjamesonline.net I am convinced. Thanks. Jones may be the smartest bet in CF this year with Rowand a close second. I am not thrilled with trading for Crisp solely because I am not thrilled with dealing any of the limited prospect in the system. I also do not love Crisp. The only player I would love to acquire is Crawford to play Left. I am dreaming, but Crawford and Jones with OCab and Richar (I am sold on his defense, hope he can hit a productive .240-.260) with AJ behind the plate gives me great comfort from a defensive standpoint. If they can pick the right veteran pitcher off the scrap heap, they might have enough brains and experience to couteract some of the young talent in the rest of the division.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 09:41 PM) I think the fielding stats by John Dewan say that Andru is the best Centerfielder. So its not just by reputation alone. This is all good stuff everyone is throwing out. I am not familiar with John Dewan. What is his statistical angle? I agree that most hitters earn their keep off the lesser pitchers but just wanted to hear thoughts on this specific to Andru. Thanks to all.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 04:00 PM) Signing Druw Jones would make too much sense for us. I really want this guy in Center next year. I understand the reasoning as to why people wouldn't want him, but he was my #1 choice coming into FA for CF. Insight? Not being a smart alec, but I have heard a lot of points to offer concern over Jones, including: -Young in age, but not time served. His body has already experienced over 10 years of service time -One of the more overrated center fielders over the past few years. Does not get to nearly the number of balls he used to and has been handed GG the past few years based on reputation alone -heavier than in years past -feasts on average/mediocre pitching -has really gone for the long ball swing (see last year's numbers) I am too lazy/busy to look this stuff up, but I was hoping someone could refute the negativity. Sounds like Boras might be having trouble doing the same but maybe I am not reading enough articles. I am not an INsider, you know.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3135081 Kenny Rogers is staying right where he is. The 43-year-old left-hander ended his free agency Friday and will return to the Detroit Tigers for a third season. Rogers agreed to a one-year deal, representing himself in contract negotiations. "Kenny is a veteran presence that stabilizes our starting rotation," team president Dave Dombrowski said in a statement. Rogers was 3-4 with a 4.43 ERA in an injury-shortened 2007 season for the Tigers after helping them reach the 2006 World Series. He was limited to just 11 starts last season after having surgery to remove a blood clot from his left shoulder and repair arteries. He went back on the disabled list later in the year with inflammation in his elbow. For the first time since 2001, Rogers did not win at least 13 games. Some questioned Detroit's decision to give Rogers a $16 million, two-year contract before the 2006 season, but he and the team were validated. He put together a third straight season with an All-Star appearance and a Gold Glove award, helping the Tigers reach the World Series for the first time since 1984. After going 17-8 with a 3.84 ERA during the regular season, Rogers held the New York Yankees, Oakland and St. Louis without a run in October. He became the first pitcher to have three scoreless starts in one postseason since Christy Mathewson in 1905. But just when talk subsided about him pushing two cameramen in 2005 -- a videotaped tirade that led to a suspension while he was with Texas -- Rogers was at the center of another dispute. Cameras showed a brown substance on his left hand in the first inning of Game 2 of the World Series, and St. Louis manager Tony La Russa brought it to the umpires' attention. Rogers' hand was clean when he came out for the second inning, and he went on to pitch shutout ball in Detroit's only victory of the Series. Over 19 seasons, Rogers is 210-143 with a 4.19 ERA and is a four-time All-Star and five-time Gold Glove winner.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 03:48 PM) I say this is one of the top three days in white sox history. Okay, I think I know one of the other two but which is the third? Todd Ritchie's last day? 1983 Clincher (Thanks Juice)? 1993 Clincher (Oh let me tell you 'bout...)? The end of Julio Cruz's contract? The end of Jaime Navarro's contract? Slappy's HR at Wrigley in 1999?

QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) I believe the Sox need to take gambles on high potential / high risk FA's. The turnaround, most likely, is not going to come strickly from our farm system. And we sure as heck wont be able to turn around the team signing the most sought after FA's. Without taking some of these risks and seeing some of them pay off, I find it extremely unlikely that the Sox make the playoffs. I welcome other points of view. Ellis Burks and Darrin Jackson (the player, not the announcer) say hello. For that matter, Jermaine Dye was another great reclamation project. The question is, what talented OF had his career derailed by freak injuries recently but could be ready to produce again? I always hear about Coop fixing pitchers, but the real mechanic of the Sox over the years has been Herm Schneider. It would be nice to see him work some magic on a low cost project again.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 10:12 AM) A few Sox fans said he "made that team go" and I told them to give me a f***ing break. (On the paper, that is.) The Chicagosports.com web poll had him over Uribe 3 to 1 a few weeks back. We all know Uribe's shortcomings, but to rate Theriot that highly over most shortstops is pretty weak.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) Yes, he should be starting at 3b no matter what, as Crede won't be with the team in 2009. That was my thought. If Crede is smart, he would be a great mentor to Josh and build himself back up at a less demanding position. Josh should continue to develop at 3B and hopefully not cost the Sox too much with errors as he learns. Meanwhile, if Joe really is back in business, he can showcase it at the plate and spot start at third.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 11:20 PM) I completely agree. If the Sox sign a big name FA that will tell me right now that they also have plans to acquire someone to play left field and leadoff with Fields sliding to 3rd and Crede heading out (either for a bullpen arm of in a package along with some prospects for the leadoff hitter). The only remaining question will be whether he really is that confident in his young starters of if he will also make a move for a starting pitcher (or if he will end up jumping on someone like Colon). I also must say if he did upgrade the leadoff spot and brought in one of Rowand/Hunter/Jones plus made a move in the pen that this team would be on paper very strong (the only question being the rotation and with one more move you could still have a relatively strong rotation). Here is a dumb idea. If the market for Crede is as low as some people project, is there any thought to trading Paulie for one or two of many reasons (youth, starting pitching, leadoff hitter, relief corps, etc.), sliding Crede to first and keeping Josh at third? I know Crede is the far better defensive option at 3B at this point in his career, but with his back issues, it may make more sense to keep him as a mentor to Fields and rest his back playing a less strenuous position. He would do well at first scooping throws in the dirt and allows you flexibility next offseason. If his back is still balky, you let him walk and hopefully Fields has improved. If not, you still have some flexibility on what to do with him when Boras comes asking for the moon. The two big questions would be 1. How can KW screw up a Konerko trade? & 2. What happens if Crede goes down again midseason? The second is the biggest gamble and could be the breaking point in the season.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 10:19 AM) Why would we trade established stars for prospects that haven't shown anything? Say the sox could trade Konerko for a package of players including an A prospect and do something similar with Garland to a team really needing a veteran starting pitcher. The players acquired could be attractive to the Marlins for Cabrera. Take the money saved on K and G, extend Cabrera and move him to first. You make yourself vulnerable in the starting pitching category and you still haven't solved your problem of a weak minor league system, but you have landed a young elite player for several years and given up one slow aging veteran who the fans love but is probably not worth the money he will be paid in the coming years. You lose Garland for one season, but probably no more since he is very likely to walk. The one area you do have some depth is starting pitching so it could make sense to deal Garland and see if a young starter is ready to perform. Obviously, this is all a bunch of "what ifs", but the White Sox do have other means to acquire young players that could be parlayed into a Cabrera deal. The question to ask then is how vulnerable will it make them for the 2008 and 2009 seasons when almost all of their trading possibilities are gone and guys in the minors need more time.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 10:18 AM) Vazquez for Milledge would be a complete steal for the Mets. Once again we don't know or appreciate the value our own players have. If JV had the season he had last year and was a FA going into the offseason, he would command some pretty steep dollars for 4 plus years. The fact that he is healthy and under control for 3 years at very reasonable rates makes him the most attractive player on the Sox from a trade standpoint, probably higher than Fields. Konerko could command a good package of players, but the market for him is much more limited. Crede is a health concern. Garland is above average and nicely priced, but only for one year. Fields is young/cheap and showed lots of promise last year, but he has still not proven himself defensively and needs another year of seasoning before people are convinced he can perform over a career. The Sox need Javy this year and should probably hang onto him, but he could be a classic example of Mr. Pratt's signature line. Trade him one year too soon rather than one to late. You could get a nice package of prospects (not one stale one like Milledge) for him alone. It would suck to do that to him, though, since he did sign a nice deal to stay with the Sox.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 09:15 AM) I like Phillips.. he's been a White Sox optimist since joining ESPN. But sometimes he says very outragous things... Come on get both Hunter and Cabrera?? KW doesn't have the money or the minor league resources to make tha happen... unless he deals Konerko or Garland or Crede.... There are too many eager teams with the resources to obtain Cabrera diectly. I do not think Crede does much for the Sox in a trade. However, if the Sox are serious about a three-way trade involving some mixture of Konerko, Garland and Josh Fields for prospects, it is a real possibility.

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Nov 12, 2007 -> 02:45 PM) he'll be signed by tomorrow.... Any reason why you think it will happen so quickly after the negotiation window opens?