Lillian

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 08:04 AM) It would probably be Alexei Ramirez, although I wouldn't be totally shocked by Morel or Beckham if he ever gets his confidence back. Rios is the other possibility. Really, four candidates if DeAza's not a starter, and Cespedes could do it as well, although I highly doubt Ventura would want to put that type of pressure on him right away until he got his feet set under him and built up some confidence. But we're a LONG ways from signing Cespedes, it's all just conjecture and speculation. If they did sign Cespedes for the kind of money being speculated, it would be a waste to have him leading off. He would be expected to provide a lot of run production and bat in the middle of the order. None of the other candidates has the kind of OBP that would make them effective lead off hitters. I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree, and reject all of these particular candidates. Any other ideas?

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 07:33 AM) If we get Cespedes - it'll mean an outfield of Cespedes - Rios - Tank They'd say adios to DeAza if they signed Cespedes. Perhaps, but then who would lead off, under that scenario?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 07:24 PM) Anybody want to answer these questions about Cespedes for me? a.) what position does he play? b.) rate his defense. c.) describe his hitting prowess and who he reminds you of at the plate. d.) Is he a can't miss prospect? e.) Do you think Sox will get him? I have a good feeling we're going to get this guy. I just can't see KW and Jerry not adding somebody to the roster who will draw some positive buzz. Or have they forgotten there are 2 teams in town and they have to remain better than those assholes on the northside? Now that Christmas is over Sox management should have a pretty good idea about how much attendance is set to fall. Season ticket Christmas gifts have been unwrapped. These are some of the questions which I'd like to have answered as well. You can't really call him a prospect, however. He is an established, dominant force in Cuban baseball. The only question is how well he will adopt to the Majors. Neither Alexi, Viciedo nor Morales ever produced quite as much as Cespedes has in Cuba. I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be a very good player in the Big Leagues. The best part is that he is a 5 tool player. That means there are more ways for him to contribute, and they are ways which "translate" well in any league. He may struggle a bit for a while with Big League pitching, but speed and defense play well at any level. He is the kind of player that could put fannies in the stadium seats.

The only thing I don't like about aggresively pursuing Cespedes is that he is another right handed hitter. If Dunn flops again, this team still lacks a left handed presence in the lineup. I don't know how mangagement has overlooked this glaring shortcoming. We don't have a potent left handed bat anywhere in the organization. Oh well, at this point we may not have a potent right handed bat, save Konerko. He is a 5 tool player, but is he really good enough defensively to play CF? Can he steal bases? If he can do those two things, he might be worth the money, even if he doesn't fulfill the promise of a huge bat in the middle of the order. It's hard to imagine him not being at least a productive offensive player, with the way he has been dominating Cuban Leagues. I mean the guy averaged over an RBI per game last year!!!

Well, let me ask the question in another way and get straight to the point. If he gets that kind of contract to sign and ends up being a pretty productive player, how much is it likely to cost altogether for his services until he reaches free agency?

If Cespedes gets $50 million from someone, for how many years would it likely be?

For those who seem to feel that Quentin is of little value, and was a "one hit wonder" in 2008. It might be revealing to know that, even if you throw out 2008, his numbers over the last 3 seasons are still very impressive: If you combine all of his stats over the years 2009, 2010 and 2011, and divide by 160 games per season, he has produced at the following rate: 31 doubles, 32 homers and 100 RBI's per 160 games. I suspect that there are plenty of teams that could use that kind of production. Now, can he stay healthy? That is a question that every GM would have to address. I've personally always worried more about all of those "Hit By Pitch" numbers. Except for the Plantar Faciatis, his injuries have pretty much been a result of hard play, and do not suggest that he is 'fragile'. Of course, his contract status is another thing.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 13, 2011 -> 08:24 AM) Morales is still recovering from his injury from 2010, he missed all of last season. There are worries that it will be a career-ending injury, so it's not someone you can try & depend on anytime soon. Thanks. I knew that he had been injured, but I wasn't aware that it may be a career ending injury.

Excuse me if this has already been discussed, but I'm just wondering about the Brewer's potential interest in Dunn, as a replacement for Fielder. They could also use Quentin, couldn't they, especially if Braun is going to be suspended for 50 games. What do the Brewers have that they could send in return? I would also like to know what it might take to get Kendry Morales from the Angels, now that they have Pujols. He would be a great replacement for Dunn, wouldn't he? Please bring me up to date.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 12:31 AM) Why should it matter if KW offered to "stand down"? Should that make me admire him more? I would have more respect if he said to JR, "Look, I'm responsible for this mess, the completely dysfunctional relationship between the front office and the coaching staff, Dunn/Rios/Peavy/Hudson for Jackson/Swisher...just give me one more chance. I'm going to rededicate myself 100% to this job and the effort of getting this organization back to where it was in 2005 and 2006. I won't rest until we have a team that White Sox fans can be proud of, that plays the game correctly, that hustles, that executes fundamentals..." That he is willing to quit and escape from this mess he created doesn't really impress me at all. In actuality, he created a large amount of the structural issues that plague this organization both today, tomorrow and 3 years from now. He was the one most directly responsible for Dave Wilder, and the current complete disaster which is our talent-base in the Domincan. Even this week, he's expressing astonishment when there's no "superstar" players to be had down there for the amount the White Sox want to spend. He should be honest with JR and tell him he needs to open the purse strings more in Asia, Venezuela and the Dominican, as well as emerging markets like Brazil, Australia, India, etc. Same thing with the draft. He should tell JR that it's his fault he needs to let Buehrle and Konerko go, because of the other players who are woefully underperforming with huge contracts. If he's not capable of convincing JR that the ONLY way to change the organizational mindset is to trade away most of the core and start over with a philosophy like they're following in Tampa, Milwaukee, Toronto, Arizona, KC, Texas, etc., he should walk away from the job today. If, and only if, he really wants to "WIN THE WAR" with Ozzie Guillen, about who was more important to the 2005 World Series championship...he should prove that he can build a consistent playoff-contending team again from the ashes. KW did this in the 2007-08 offseason to an extent, but things are 3X as bleak now because of the contracts we can't get off the books until midseason 2012 at the earliest. That is a very compelling and eloquent perspective. It comes back to the accountability issue, doesn't it? Thank you.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 10:45 PM) Even if you offered Danks and Quentin together, you're still not going to get them to take in the entirety of the Rios OR Dunn contracts. Maybe if the White Sox chipped in one-third or half, like the Phillies did with the Thome for Rowand deal. The problem with that is 1) you don't get any infusion of minor league talent for two of our more valuable trading chips this offeason and 2) you're still losing money on Dunn/Rios, basically paying them not to play, when the odds are at least 50/50 that one or both will recover and have solid seasons in 2012 with a new hitting coach/approach. Beckham, too. This is the type of move you really have to wait until the midpoint of 2012 to make. I would be shocked if KW was STILL AROUND as the GM and gave up on Dunn (eating all or part of the contract) and then used McPherson in that role. The only way that could possibly happen would be with a new GM who wasn't interested in proving or justifying the correctness of his original decisions. Well, if they can't unload Rios and Dunn, without paying a significant part of their salaries, even if packaged with Danks or Quentin, then I agree with you. I guess they just have to play both of them and hope that they rebound so that they can trade them then. Meanwhile, unless they trade Quentin, it looks like de Aza would be the only newcomer who would see any playing time. He could replace Pierre. Viciedo and Milledge would remain at AAA until the Sox could finally deal Rios and Dunn. How long would you wait for them to rebound, before you just bit the bullet, and got rid of them, even if it included salary relief for the team that would take them? It's hard to imagine suffering through another year of Adam Dunn performing anywhere near the disastrous, pathetic level we all had to endure this season. That would not only block the chance for some of the more promising youngsters, few as they are, but it would kill attendance. Fans simply won't spend their money to watch someone embarrass themselves while making that kind of salary, especially in this economy. Your points are all well taken, and I suppose that you're right, but I just wonder at what point management has to stop hoping for a turnaround from Rios and Dunn.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 05:12 PM) McPherson and Marrero, really? Milledge deserves another shot before those guys. And you're leaving out Lillibridge. He's not going to get a legit shot to play everyday. And if you try to package Rios/Dunn with Quentin/Danks/Floyd/Ramirez/Thornton, etc., we're just giving away all the talent that could actually get something decent back in return. Rios and Dunn (and even Beckham) are sunk costs. We have to give them 2012 to recover and see what we actually have. Trading both of them at this point and eating millions of dollars just doesn't make any sense. Buy low, sell high. You have to wait, as painful as it might be....as predictable as the results might be to some who say they will all suck forever, even with a new pitching coach. I never suggested "eating" any of their salaries. That was my rationale for packaging them with the more desirable trading chips. I have Lillibridge platooning with de Aza in C.F. De Aza is much better vs. RHP and Brent is more effective vs. LHP. They could share the lead off spot. I also have Milledge in LF. My motive in moving Rios and Dunn now is to free up some salary, and to give the younger guys a chance to play next year. It may not be possible, but it's a reasonable goal. McPherson's numbers vs RHP this year at Charlotte project to a .305 AVG, with 44 doubles, 32 homers and 100 RBI's. He put up similar numbers last year. Given his previous Minor League stats, why not give him a shot vs RHP at DH, if you could unload Dunn? I know that he's older, but he's really never had a chance to blossom because of his terrible injury misfortunes.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 05:15 PM) Dallas McPherson...lawl. I knew that the suggestion of McPherson would raise some eyebrows, but keep an open mind. He has had two very good years at AAA the last two seasons, especially vs. RHP. If we could unload Dunn, he could be a good, cost effective left handed DH There's not much point in spending a lot on a free agent left handed power hitter during this rebuilding phase, but the Sox need a left handed presence in the middle of the order.

This team needs at least one year to find out what they have in the way of young players who can contribute. Playing Morel, Beckham, Viciedo, de Aza, Milledge and Flowers may not produce a winning season, but it could identify the holes that need to be filled. The following is a list of possible moves that could be made to prepare for 2013: 1) Trade Quentin and Danks, as they will both be due for a big pay day in 2013 2) Unload Peavy, Rios, and Dunn. One or two of those bad contracts could be packaged with Quentin or Danks, in order to move them. A. J. should be traded to make room for Flowers, who does not profile well as a platoon candidate, since he hits RHP better than LHP. 3) Play the best, most promising minor leaguers: Viciedo Flowers de Aza Milledge McPherson Marrero Before anyone rejects this idea, out of hand, look at the split stats. Some of those guys have very good splits, especially the left handed hitters. Give them all a season at the Big League level to find out what we have, even if they are platooned 4) Resign Buerhle if Danks is not resigned, or is traded 5) Acquire a young left handed power hitting prospect, in the trades 6) Use next season to evaluate the team’s status and needs 7) Use newly established payroll flexibility to acquire missing pieces through free agency, at the end of next season. Line up vs RHP / LHP CF de Aza / Lillibridge SS Ramirez 1B Konerko DH McPherson / __??_____ RF Viciedo LF Marrero / Milledge C Flowers 2B Beckham 3B Morel SPLITS Marrero AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS .316 307 53 97 20 7 9 50 45 46 9 3 .403 .515 .917 McPherson .305 272 42 83 22 0 16 51 25 79 0 1 .361 .563 .924 Millidge AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS .393 117 23 46 5 2 7 18 18 10 12 1 .478 .650 1.128 Starters Sale Floyd Humber Buerhle or Danks Stewart or Axelrod Relievers Santos Thornton Crain Frasor Reed Santiago

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 11:05 AM) The Greg Walker situation/debate. Isn't that the implied topic of this thread?

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 09:47 AM) I just had the strangest feeling of deja du. Deja vu regarding what?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 09:01 AM) Biggest issue with this concept is...PK14 might be the best in baseball at recognizing the fastball early. If someone else tried to adopt his exact approach but couldn't respond as effectively to the fastball, then that other hitter might be completely worthless. Yes, perhaps, however being "quiet", short and quick to the ball can't hurt anyone of our struggling hitters. I'm not suggesting that any of them would end up being as good a hitter as Konerko. I'm only saying that they could improve by using his very fundamentally sound approach. Being short and quick to the ball, and being willing to go to the opposite field on outside pitches, would be a positive change for any of our hitters, and would not be detramental even to those who weren't as proficient at recognizing the fast ball. I think Walker understands and preaches this technique. The problem is that few of our hitters seem to want to take the advice. It's helped Konerko and Lillibridge, and I suspect that it would help a lot of guys. I hope noone here actually believes that Walker was endorsing, much less recommending, Rios' approach to hitting.

I didn't read all of the posts in the entire thread, so perhaps someone has already made the following suggestion: Keep Walker, and ask every underperforming, struggling hitter to use Konerko as a working model. They could all do much worse than simply copying his mechanics, with Walker as the instructor. Is there a more sound approach to hitting anywhere? It looks as though Lillibridge already has done that, after working with Walker over the winter. It would certainly represent a big improvement over Dunn's long swing, and whatever you call that abomination of Rios', earlier in the season.

QUOTE (SpainSOXfan09 @ Sep 24, 2011 -> 12:11 AM) On a serious note and back to baseball, if De Aza can keep up a .360-.370 OBP and steal 30-40 bags I would be happy with that if he gets a chance. His defense seems to be good from what I have read. I say why not. Let him go into ST with the job as his to lose. This better be the plan, or this organization is even a bigger mess than is already apparent. The only reservation I would have is that he may struggle a little vs. LHP. But then there is the option of using Lillibridge in a platoon. They are both lead off candidates, and both good, speedy outfielders, so that could work just fine.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) Only if we Fire Herm.. He cost this team the playoffs this year.. Fire him yesterday. That's it. It's all Herm Schneider's fault. If only he hadn't kept Rios and Dunn off the DL, think what might have been.

As most of you know, I've been tauting de Aza for a long time on this board. I can't believe that there are still so many detractors here. Open your eyes!! This is a good, all around baseball player. He's never been bad, and except for the time he missed with that ankle injury a few years ago, he's always produced. He had a great year at AAA last year, and hit when he was brought up. This year, he had an even better year, and has arguably been our best offensive weapon since being called up. Moreover, he can play the outfield and steal bases. Those who talk about his OBP apparently haven't looked at his stats at AAA the last two seasons, especially versus RHP. His OBP vs. RHP at Charlotte over the last two years is well in excess of .400 If he doesn't start in the OF next year, I'll be shocked and disappointed. Comparisons to Pierre are a joke. He can do so many more things than Pierre can, and do them really well. He should have been given a chance a long time ago, but he is making a statement.

Oh well. You can't blame a girl for dreaming.

I don't follow the Marlins. Would they have room for Rios? If so, Ozzie and Rios, for nothing in return as long as the Sox don't pick up any salary. I read something about the Marlins being ready to significantly expand the payroll with the new Stadium.

The Sox do not really need to add anything from outside the organization for next season. However, unfortunately, they do have another roster problem. They must either unload Rios and, or Dunn and their big contracts, or fix their shocking declines in performance. They don’t need Rios, as they have plenty of outfield options, including center field. I understand that he’s making too much money to be a 4th outfielder, but much like the Angels overpaid Gary Matthews Jr. to be a defensive replacement, when his production mandated a demotion, that might be the best use of Rios. He would be overpaid, but at least he wouldn’t be killing their offense, and with both Quentin and Viciedo in the outfield, Rios might actually be of value as a defensive replacement. Of course it would be much better to unload that horrible contract, which would likely require that they assume a significant portion of his salary. An outfield of Quentin in LF, Viciedo in RF and a platoon of de Aza and Lillibridge in CF would be fine. Moreover, the de Aza/Lillibridge platoon makes a very serviceable lead off tandem, although Brent’s OBP is questionable for a lead off hitter, he makes up for it with his pop vs. LHP. The payroll relief afforded by both de Aza and Viciedo is very significant. They could comprise 2/3 of the outfield, and make Quentin’s salary increase possible. The offense will likely need both Quentin and a productive Viciedo. Again, Rios has to be the odd man out, hopefully via trade, but if not, his role has to be reduced. De Aza has been every bit as effective vs. RHP, as he has been the last two years at AAA.He could be a very serviceable center fielder and leadoff hitter. His stats vs. RHP for both Charlotte and the Sox so far this year have been very impressive, as they were last year. Everyone talks about Viciedo, but de Aza has really been the better player, though of course he lacks the power potential of Viciedo, and is 5 years older. The Sox may have to trade J. Danks just to entice a team to take Rios and his contract, and it might even be worth the sacrifice. Sale could take his spot in the rotation as a lefty. However, if Danks is traded, they better resign Buehrle. I don’t like the rotation with only one lefty. I’d personally prefer to see them just pay part of Rios’ contract in order to get another team to take him. If they could unload most of that contract they might be able to pay Danks, and even resign Buehrle, if he’s willing to take less than he made this year. The biggest problem is Dunn. He must rebound, primarily because this team badly needs a left handed hitting presence in the heart of the heavily weighted right handed hitting lineup. Rios, though expensive is not indispensable, but Dunn has to provide the only left handed threat. I’ve suggested elsewhere that Dunn should shorten his swing and maybe even choke up, a la Barry Bonds. A man that big and strong doesn’t need a big long swing. What he needs to do is make contact. Any time he hits the ball it has a chance to leave the yard, because he is that powerful. It just seems obvious that making more contact should be his number one objective. If they can get Dunn back to his normal production, the offense should be fine. I would expect that another year of experience should see improvement from both Beckham and Morel. A new hitting coach might help as well.

The original post in this thread suggested that Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Thornton and Frasor would be traded. However, no players were added to the roster. The obvious question is who could the Sox acquire for those players in trades?