shoota

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) I'll take a quick crack at a few of these. Also because he sucked for much of the year. Sure, Anderson was a bad offensive player in the first half, and Mackowiak’s center field defense wasn’t well known. My criticism is based on the second half, when Anderson gave the team the better option to win than Mackowiak. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) Also because he couldn't hit the broadside of Blalock's ass, his control is so bad. You understand that Tracey is nowhere near ready for the Majors, right? That his control is terrible? For that alone he deserves to be sent down, and he especially deserves it when he blatantly disregards his manager's order. Tracey performed poorly in his time in the majors, and it’s understandable he would be sent back to the minor leagues. My criticism of Guillen is based on his verbal assault towards Tracey that was of no benefit to anyone. The Guillen water bottle-throwing tantrum is reactionary, like a child who didn’t get his way (hitting Blalock). QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) Right. Guillen's the only manager who ever took his player's opinions into regard. It be much better if he left them off the ASG Roster (like Garner) or spread rumors about them to the NY Media (like Torre). Haha, you’ve missed the point. I said “Guillen regularly makes personnel decisions based on his relationships with players, not based on what's best for the team,” to explain how he limits and awards playing time based on factors outside playing ability. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) Personally, I think Ozzie handles a pitching staff that way it should be handled. I disagree and cite Guillen’s poor decisions of letting Vazquez repeatedly fail in the 6 inning, his choise to allow his most dominant pitcher adjust his mechanics and pitch through injury while performing far from his peak ability, not understanding the role of a long man, and not allowing McCarthy to pitch in the rotation for one of his ineffective starting pitchers. (The argument that McCarthy wasn’t stretched out has been debunked). QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) Yet he shouldn't be angry when someone fails to protect his players when he sends them to. I don’t disagree with retaliatory pitches, but for the way Guillen handled these situations. For example, AJP was twice intentionally HBP by a pitcher who had great control before Guillen ordered retaliation. Had Guillen ordered retaliation after the first HBP, AJP might not have been hit a second time. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) This one is the least subjective of them all. I clearly remember that Ozzie called a team meeting to discipline Freddy after he showed up Iguchi and I'm sure it happened the other times, too. Yeah, that’s pretty subjective on my part. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) It's his fault that Jim Thome got tendonitis, Joe Crede's back flared, the offense disappeared and each pitcher disappeared for significant portions of the season. I never cited those reasons why Guillen is to blame for failing to get the Sox in the 2006 playoffs. For the most part, injuries are out of a manager’s control, so it wouldn’t be fair for me to criticize a manager because of the injuries to his players. I believe had Guillen made better decisions in the criticisms I did cite, the Sox would have made the playoffs at minimum.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 05:12 PM) I cant stop laughing at this. Fierce anger, LMAO. It looked more like intense anger than fierce anger. LOL What did you think about one of your listed "good" managers, Lou Piniella, when he directed his fierce anger towards Rob Dibble and brawled with him? I don't think "fierce anger" is unsuitable, but even if it is, your decision to respond to my grammar and not the points in my post reveal that my ideas are valid or you lack the ability to disprove them. The Piniella/Dibble situation is quite different from the Guillen/Tracey situation.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:35 PM) I dont give a crap about what HE said, your point of Ozzie being a bad manager is baseless and ridiculous. You named a bunch of other managers who havent nearly had the success that Ozzie has had in the short period of time. Okay, I'll list reasons why Guillen's a bad manager: * Mishandled Brandon McCarthy by not starting him in 2006 when he had plenty of chances to use him over his ineffective and injured starting 5: For Contreras when he was pitching injured in the second-half; for Vazquez when he got lit up in the 6th innings; for Garcia or Buehrle when they sucked. * Mishandled Brandon McCarthy by not using him as a long-man. * Allowing his most dominant pitcher to pitch injured. * Using Rob Mackowiak in center field because of a personal grudge he had against Brian Anderson. * Temporarily retarding Brian Anderson's growth as a baseball player. * Putting Damaso Marte on the 2005 ALDS and ALCS postseason roster instead of Brandon McCarthy. McCarthy was tits down the stretch that season and Marte was emotionally lost and pitching horribly. * Having a misconceived belief that his leadoff man has to be a fast base stealer, leading him to start Podsednik in LF over Mackowiak in 2006. * Directing fierce anger at Sean Tracey for failing to intentionally hitting a batter, then sending him to the minors because of it. * Guillen regularly makes personnel decisions based on his relationships with players, not based on what's best for the team: Tracey, Anderson, McCarthy, Marte, Garcia. * Horrible handling of his pitching staff, regularly leaving startes in games too long, after they've become ineffective. * Failure to protect his players in multiple instances with opposing pitchers' hitting Sox batters. * Allowing his relative Freddy G to show up teammates after they error in the field. * Possessing absolutely no clue when to call for a pitchout, often calling for one when there was no attempted steal. * For managing in a reactive manner instead of a calculated one. * Incomprehensibly not getting the 2006 Sox to the playoffs.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) If we are using logic, explain to me how Ozzie made the pitching staff completely crap themselves in 2006. Also talent level is decidedly higher for Ozzie comparative to the other teams in our division?Are you considering we were playing in the best division in baseball with the highest level of talent? What are you trying to say about teams like the Tigers and Twins, did they have markedly inferior talent? Consequently, does it mean that managers like Scioscia were actually even worse managers because respective to their divisions they had clearly the best amount of talent and should have had an easier time making the playoffs, considering we had the best team in baseball and then also the wildcard come out of our division? This tangent has nothing to do with the premise of the discussion. Jordan4Life said Manuel's a bad manager for failing to get to the playoffs in 2003. He stated the "2003 team was just about as talented" as the 2006 Ozzie-managed team. Therefore, according to his logic, if Manuel's a bad manager, so is Guillen.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) Several of those managers didnt make the playoffs last year either, which means they suck according to your logic. Incorrect for a couple reasons. 1) Those other managers didn't have the players Guillen had in 2006. 2) Earlier in this thread, Jordan4Life mentioned Manuel was a bad manager for not getting the talented 2003 team into the playoffs, yet Ozzie failed to manage his very talented 2006 team into the playoffs. Based on J4L's logic that Manuel is a bad manager for failing in 2003, he must also admit Guillen is a bad manager for failing in 2006.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) So what managers currently in baseball do you like? I'm a fan of Mike Scioscia, Ron Gardenhire, Tom Kelly, Jim Leyland, Jack McKeon and from what I've heard, Wally Backman. I'd probably like Bobby Cox and Lou Piniella if I watched more of their games. QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) Nice memory. What the hell do you do with your time? I found it when I was deleting old bookmarks.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) Nope, I cant. I guess every coach or manager that doesnt reach the playoffs is a bad coach. I liked his Grossman vs orton ones better. I don't think I've ever started a Grossman vs Orton thread.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 08:03 AM) Anyone that compares Ozzie Guillen and Jerry Manuel has zero credability and knows nothing about baseball, sorry if this is offensive. Ozzie Guillen may be a bad manger but he can not be compared to Manual they are polar opposites. The 2003 White Sox had the best team in baseball. Guillen would have led this team to at least the playoffs and Loiaza and Colon would have taken them to the WS. Post #18: QUOTE(shoota @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 10:52 PM) The comparison holds true in that both are bad managers.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jan 10, 2007 -> 12:05 AM) What the hell? LOL. Why did you bump this thread? And, no, Ozzie is not a bad manager. I bumped this thread at your request to get back to you once the Ozzie-led Sox failed to make the playoffs. Your statement suggests you thought Ozzie was a good manager at the time, but would change your opinion if he floundered a playoff birth.

QUOTE(shoota @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 11:33 PM) You stated the 2003 team was just about as talented at the 2006 one, so if the Sox don't make the playoffs this year, Ozzie, like Manuel is bad manager according to your reasoning. QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 11:37 PM) Get back to me when the Sox are eliminated from playoff contention. And even then, I'll blame the starting pitching more than I would Ozzie. It would be tough for a lot of managers to win when an entire starting staff, especially one as potent as this year's staff was supposed to be, craps its pants for an entire year. Now that the season is over and Ozzie failed to reach the playoffs, you can admit that he's a bad manager.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jan 5, 2007 -> 02:47 PM) 140+ games with Cintron at short will explain to you how false that sentence is. When Juan is hot, he is a damn great hitter and when he is cold, he sucks. But, he is one of the three best defensive shortstops in the league and overall a better player than Cintron. BTW, Juanny looks like he slimmed down a little. If he plays this year, I expect a solid season .270, 20 HR, 70 RBIs and 10 SBs. It's not an either/or situation. Uribe and Cintron are not the only options.

Could be a blessing in disguise.

QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Dec 31, 2006 -> 02:31 PM) This is my new favorite Soxtalk thread... I would like to know where you live because the people in my line of sight everyday do not equate out to 60% good looking. Using your horribly flawed ratio scale I would go 20-60-20. Yeah, the original scale has to be off simply based on how many old people there are. Subtract all the fatties too and the number of people left to be judged is less than 30%. From there we must subtract all dudes of any age, bringing us down to 17%, because I think there are more femininas in this country than guys. From 17%, we can then begin to eliminate the sour faces, butter faces, straight-up ugly faces, and the handicapped/deformed. That brings us to 7%.

QUOTE(MSHAWKS @ Dec 31, 2006 -> 12:37 AM) Tito really fought about as good of a fight as he could against The Iceman, but he was forced to exchange punches because of Chuck's takedown defense. Chuck is just too damn tough to take down and hold down. I'm very happy Chuck won, but Tito suprised and impressed me with his graciousness in defeat. Bring on Rampage. Also, when will the mainstream media(Suntimes, Tribune, ESPN) start recognizing MMA as a real sport? It has elipsed boxing in popularity. Also, as someone who has trained in MMA for two years now, I can assure everyone that the guys who make it to the UFC and PRIDE are world class athletes. Really? We must be watching different interviews. I had the same thought last night. I saw the PPV, so I didn't need to read about it, but I still checked SI.com to see if they would have an article covering the fights. They didn't. Tito did have one comment that was classless, which is his style, but overall I thought his post-fight interview was very honest. Instead of making excuses for losing, he admitted in great candor that he fought about as good as he's capable, and gave respect to Liddell for beating him at his best. Tito also seemed genuine in letting down his fans and gave the appearance that he really cared for them. To the fight, I was really impressed with Liddell's strategy. From his comments and calculated fighting choices, he was not going to let Tito take his belt by decision by outlasting him with superior conditioning and late round victories. This was apparant especially in the second round--which Liddell likely lost--when he chose not to attack Tito after Tito's missed haymakers failed to connect, leaving him exposed to counter strikes. I thought referee Mario Yamasaki made a great decision to allow the fight to continue in the first round because Tito did a good job defending the Liddell punches. Liddell's third round was great. Joe Rogan mentioned that Liddell's camp believed the Iceman's body shots really hurt Tito in their previous fight. We saw Iceman connect two hard body punches on Tito in the third, setting up a big right hand shot to Tito's head. That was the sequence that ultimately lead to Liddell's victory.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 31, 2006 -> 01:07 PM) What risk? Risk of him winning more Cy Youngs? This is the one guy that yo pay the roof for. Exactly. I can see JR or KW making an exception for the best pitcher in baseball. Although, much can happen between now and the end of Johan's contract. He might not be the best pitcher in baseball at that point. Or maybe the Sox sign Zambrano after the 2007 season.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 07:30 PM) Baldelli is a year older than Anderson. Baldelli is an .800 OPS CF with very good defense. Brian Anderson is a .650 OPS CF with good defense. I'm pretty sure Baldelli will be better than Anderson every year over the next 5 years. And I do expect Anderson to get better, but Baldelli would be a significant upgrade in my opinion. Yeah, I can see Baldelli outperforming BA over the next 5 years. I don't know anything about Baldelli's defense, so I can't compare him to BA. But if Baldelli is a better defender than BA, as you stated, he must be quite impressive.

Anderson might be better than Baldelli over the next 5 seasons. This trade proposal sucks.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Dec 15, 2006 -> 06:40 PM) the drays always ask way too damn much for their players Strongly agree.

This ongoing MLB illegal substance/federal investigation is way over my head and I don't have enough knowledge on the topic to add anything of worth. But I am anxiously waiting the release of this list and a ton more information about this. I desire full disclosure on the topic. The sooner the better.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 02:13 PM) There would be some fan b****ing. But if you used that money to bring in some good major league player(s), that would really help appease the fan base. This is particularly true if Buehrle has another non-ace season in 2007. If he shows himself not to be an ace for two years, then I don't think most fans would be saying, "give him anything he wants." I wouldn't ever offer Buehlre a 6-year deal. There are very few pitchers good enough to warrant that kind of long-term risk. And Buehrle has a hell of a lot of innings and pitches on that arm. Don't forget Buehrle had an All-Star first half last season. I'm not saying this to disagree with your overall point, just pointing out that Buehrle had an All-Star first half.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:24 PM) Reading this thread is really reminding me of some previous threads regarding trades. And on that note, how goes Cooperstown's efforts to get Olivo's bust bronzed for his impending HOF ceremony? I swear -- for many people on this board -- if KW walked on water, you'd complain about him not swimming. We've still got a few months before spring training, let alone the start of the season. A trade or some FA work may still be possible. It's also amazing that McCarthy who has shown flashes of being very good but hasn't been able to put it together is automatically, again in many peoples' responses here, going to overtake Johan Santana in 2007 for the AL Cy Young. Take off the homer blinders and look at this pragmatically please. Just like the Garcia trade to Philly. People thought we didn't get enough for him. Yet everybody here was joking about how bad Garcia was all last year (my favorite being Kalapse's Flamethrower Freddy with the 86 mph speed gun saying "Intimidation had a New Name") I'm personally amazed that we got something more than a sack of scuffed balls for him. Never mind. Forget I said anything. Continue with the complaints that the sky is falling and the end of the world is at hand. Never mind that all the prospect trading over the past seasons might just mean that we may need to restock a little bit. I'm not defending KW, I'm just pleading for a little reason here rather than emotional "OMG!!!11! WE'RE GONNA BE WORSE THAN DA ROYELS THIS YEAR!" knee-jerk responses. No one has said that. QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 01:58 PM) I guarantee Ozzie's dislike for McCarthy also played a role in this. I also must admit that my interest in watching the Sox this year is fading more and more. Yeah, I had the same thought soon after I learned of this trade. I think it was Fathom who did a nice job breaking down Ozzie's bias against McCarthy and in favor of Vazquez, his golfing buddy. QUOTE(RX Bandits @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:25 PM) go on and name a time KW...hell i'll even say the franchise has never been wrong about letting pitching go in the last 15 years. People were pissed when fernandez, alverez, kip wells, etc etc when those guys were traded, and really they didnt do ANYTHING. Trades like this cannot be determinded who "won and lost" right now. Poor reasoning since the organization's past pitching decisions does not guarantee the success of all future decisions. How long have you been at ISU?

Baseball, clearly. When the Sox or the Cubs clinch playoff births, the city is buzzing; when the Bears clinched the division this year, people were happy, but nowhere near the mass excitement of when the Sox or Cubs clinch. The Sox and Cubs celebrations are greater in number than Bears. I think the seasonal formats of the two sports has a lot to do with baseball's reign over football.

I started using Netflix a bit over two months ago, and I think it's a good deal. Unfortunately, I don't think they work Saturdays. I follow my queue daily to see when my dvds are received and shipped, and I've noticed none have been processed on Saturday. Does Blockbuster online work on Saturdays?

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 18, 2006 -> 09:45 AM) I have to give props to Kenny now. I love the 2 moves he made ! 1. We are now set at catcher for a while. We have a good starter, a good backup and a good young 3rd in Charlotte almost ready. That's the way it should be. We've also got the lefty-righty thing and both are solid defensively. 2. Gload for Sisco is a great deal. Gload has upside but let's face it, the Sox couldn't even find time to play him and they get a good looking young pitcher back. It's an awesome move. I still would like to see another experienced reliever added and we need another OFer that can play center but we need a lot less than we did before the weekend. I feel much better about the team now. And, I was beginning to lose sleep at the thought of having Alomar back again. WAY TO GO KENNY ! Yeah, I agree. I'm supportive of both these moves.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:33 PM) He just signed with the Giants for 1 year and 16 million. Ah, I'm out of the loop.